NLHE Tournament Hand (2 Viewers)

[Steve Birrer]

Playing a single table NLHE with 8 players. Blinds are 50/100.

UTG +1 limps, UTG +2 limps, Hero looks down at and limps. Button calls, sb folds, and bb checks his option.

Pot is 550.

Flop comes

UtG+1 and UTG+2 both check.

Action on hero?

 

[Legend5555]

What are the stacks? Any info on the players?

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I would've folded pre, but here I'm betting 300. You want them to pay for their draws, and to paraphrase the great Ivan Drago, if they fold, they fold.

 

[Beakertwang]

I would've folded pre, but here I'm betting 300. You want them to pay for their draws, and to paraphrase the great Ivan Drago, if they fold, they fold.

Always better to win a small pot than lose a big one, right? Somehow, I always manage to mess that up.

 

[1A25R]

5 ways
I bet 300

 

[Pinball]

Stacks and payout structure?

 

[Pinball]

Generally fold

 

[Frogzilla]

Fold pre and need to know how deep we are to size the flop bet (we should bet)

And we will need to take this down without a showdown, otherwise will be a misdeal (two 10s of hearts)

 

[jemfernandez]

Preflop Hero should ideally not have a limping range and should have folded this hand.

As played, a small to medium sized bet here should do. 250-300.

 

[Frogzilla]

Preflop Hero should ideally not have a limping range and should have folded this hand.

You can definitely overlimp in lots of games with two limpers ahead with stuff like suited connectors, small pairs, weak suited aces, etc. Especially when the blinds don’t squeeze much. These hands that play great multi-way in position and will usually be closing the action and have enough equity to call a preflop raise from the blinds.

T9o is just too weak though

 

[Steve Birrer]

Ok to add a little detail. Stack sizes were all around 12K. Both UTG players are fairly loose. Button is tight. BB is very tight.

So hero bet 500. Button called and BB and both UTG limpers folded. So pot is 1550.

Turn comes .

Action on hero?

 

[Frogzilla]

Check.

Your hand isn’t vulnerable, you aren’t getting called by worse, and you certainly aren’t getting anything better to fold.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Surprised there weren't more thoughts but its been long enough so moving on.

Pot is 1550 and Hero bets 1000.

Button thinks for a bit then shoves for around 7500 more.

Action on hero? Note at this point hero has around 9000 chips left.

 

[Legend5555]

Fold. You only beat kamikaze bluffs from KJ, diamond draws, and spade draws. And it's crazy to bluff jam here with those because they can't win against the hands that call even if they get there.

You have overplayed bottom full house on the turn and now are facing the consequences. At best you are chopping with the other T. But there are many more combos of Qx than the last T. It was a limped pot 5 ways. Qx is a really easy holding for someone to have here with this action.

 

[Anthony Ferguson]

May I ask how you insert the paying cards into your text:

 

[Anthony Ferguson]

I meant "playing" although "paying" may be the more appropriate phraseology when I am at the table.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Ok time for full disclosure.

I was not HERO. I was the button. I discussed it this way to see what you all thought "hero" should do. And you all had it pretty much with what I thought. Of course you don't know hero like I do and he is a really play any two cards type. And he almost always just calls preflop. Rarely rarely raises even with a big hand.

So hero called my shove and every body at the table knew I had a Q and were shocked hero called.

I turned over for Qs full of 10s.

And of course you know what the river came.... so he one outed me for quads.

 

[shorticus]

Ouch!

 

[trever]

I guess the questions then are; should (real) hero have checked the flop and then called when a loose, fishy villain bet?

 

[Steve Birrer]

I guess the questions then are; should (real) hero have checked the flop and then called when a loose, fishy villain bet?

I was the button.....loose fishy villain bet after the BB and both uth limpers checked. I called his post flop bet.

 

[Frogzilla]

What’s the thinking on the turn overbet shove? You almost folded out the 2nd nuts. Seems a lot better to either call and let villain bet into you on the river or size down a bit so you get more value from a 10.

 

[AWenger]

May I ask how you insert the paying cards into your text:

The playing card and suit symbols are under the "Smilies" or emoticon icon in the PCF text edit window, scroll to the bottom and the cards are at the bottom.

(At least, this is when using a computer, I don't know whether or not the cards symbols show up smartphones or not.)

 

[detroitdad]

I would have folded, or raised pre flop. As is, I'm betting in the 350-400 range.

 

[Steve Birrer]

What’s the thinking on the turn overbet shove? You almost folded out the 2nd nuts. Seems a lot better to either call and let villain bet into you on the river or size down a bit so you get more value from a 10.

I had a really strong read that he'd call my shove. I was pretty sure he had 10s full of Qs and couldn't walk away from them

As to the second part of your response - I get ZERO value from a 10. That river 10 gave him quads and busted me.

 

[Legend5555]

As to the second part of your response - I get ZERO value from a 10. That river 10 gave him quads and busted me.

That's being results oriented. In general you probably get more value from a T by not jamming turn (just raising) and forcing them to call off on literally EVERY other river when their pot odds are "too good" for them to fold.

 

[Steve Birrer]

That's being results oriented. In general you probably get more value from a T by not jamming turn (just raising) and forcing them to call off on literally EVERY other river when their pot odds are "too good" for them to fold.

I have no idea what you are saying. There is zero value to a T for me. Perhaps you missed the part where I said I wasn't the hero but was the button. If not the please explain what you are saying. I was not being results oriented. I had the second nuts post turn. "Hero' bet and I shoved as I was pretty certain he would call.

 

[Legend5555]

I have no idea what you are saying. There is zero value to a T for me. Perhaps you missed the part where I said I wasn't the hero but was the button. If not the please explain what you are saying. I was not being results oriented. I had the second nuts post turn. "Hero' bet and I shoved as I was pretty certain he would call.

What @Frogzilla was saying is that by overplaying your hand on the turn, you make it easy for you opponent (if you aren't certain they will call). If you just call, then on any river other than a T (which will be nearly always) you give your opponent a chance to keep betting thinking they are good.

Sure it's great that you happened to play against someone that would call your jam on the turn. But would you have done the same with someone else? What about a random person you have no info on? You can't say your play on the turn was correct because a T came on the river. That is being results oriented. You have to figure out if raising the turn is correct over all possible rivers. And neither Forgzilla nor I think it is.

If your opponent is happy to keep betting, why take that ability away from them by raising the virtual nuts on a turn where you pretty much can never be drawn out on. You had position, use it.

 

[Frogzilla]

Yea u risk folding too many Ts with that turn move. If opponent was tipping he was going to call...then no issue. What was the read that he wouldn’t let it go?

 

[Steve Birrer]

Ok I get what y'all are saying. So to be clear I played it the way I did against this specific player. Certainly agree against an unknown player that a call would be a good play.

 

[Steve Birrer]

If I want to play results oriented I probably should have just called the turn bet. Then when the horrid river came perhaps I would have been able to walk away? It would have been a heck of a laydown but in this particular case I knew he had a 10.