Tourney Newbie Turbo Structure? (1 Viewer)

[v1pe]

I'm hosting a game for my birthday this weekend which I anticipate will include a lot of Poker noobs (mostly spouses of my regular friends/players).

I need the tournament to complete in ~3 to 3.5 hours. Any longer than 3.5 hours is too long as we will have couples who need to get back home to their kids.

I was thinking a T10K freezeout with the following structure?

Round 1 15m $25 $50
Round 2 15m $50 $100
Round 3 15m $75 $150
Round 4 15m $100 $200
Round 5 15m $150 $300
Break 1 10m
Round 6 15m $200 $400
Round 7 15m $300 $600
Round 8 15m $400 $800
Round 9 15m $500 $1,000
Round 10 15m $600 $1,200
Round 11 15m $800 $1,600
Break 2 10m
Round 12 15m $1,000 $2,000
Round 13 15m $1,500 $3,000
Round 14 15m $2,500 $5,000
Round 15 15m $4,000 $8,000
Break 3 10m
Round 16 15m $6,000 $12,000
Round 17 15m $8,000 $16,000
Round 18 15m $10,000 $20,000
Round 19 15m $15,000 $30,000
Round 20 15m $25,000 $50,000
Round 21 15m $40,000 $80,000

What I'm concerned about is mostly the time frame. I'm don't have a good feel for, and am not sure how to calculate, the approximate ending. I have a feeling it's a little too slow, and perhaps I should either speed it up, or increase the bumps. My first instinct is to decrease the levels to 12 minutes.

Also, anyone have any specific advice for making the experience good and comfortable for first time players? I am considering printing off some hand strength charts, and also doing a quick teaching round prior to the first game.

 

[BGinGA]

For any given blind structure, the total tournament time will be primarily dependent upon three things:

• total number of players (or buy-ins)
• total number of chips per player (or buy-in)
• length of the blind levels

Basically, you don't know how many total chips are in play without knowing the number of players. How many are you expecting? Are you going to offer re-buys?

 

[v1pe]

For any given blind structure, the total tournament time will be primarily dependent upon three things:

• total number of players (or buy-ins)
• total number of chips per player (or buy-in)
• length of the blind levels

Basically, you don't know how many total chips are in play without knowing the number of players. How many are you expecting? Are you going to offer re-buys?

I can't be sure about the number of players yet. I'm guessing something like 12-16 will show up.

Let's assume T10k freezeout (so no rebuys).

Do you have a handy formula?

 

[David O]

I can't be sure about the number of players yet. I'm guessing something like 12-16 will show up.

Let's assume T10k freezeout (so no rebuys).

Do you have a handy formula?

That's like asking the Pope if he is Catholic.

 

[BGinGA]

16 players x 10000 chips = 160000 total chips in play. Tournament likely won't go past 20 total big blinds in play, or L15 (160k/20 = 8000 big blind).

Using your structure in th OP, 15 levels at 15 minutes each puts your estimated maximum time at 3:45 plus breaks.

Every minute you slice off the blind level times will shorten the event by 15 minutes, so 12-minute blinds will generally run at most 3 hours plus breaks.

 

[justsomedude]

Also, anyone have any specific advice for making the experience good and comfortable for first time players?

Topless dealers.

Spoiler

 

[v1pe]

Topless dealers.

Spoiler

 

[v1pe]

It's looking like 10-12 players for tomorrow night. I'll probably just try to keep it simple and use the existing structure I have, with 15min levels... I'll speed it up towards the end if need be.

Using @inca911 bb+SB = 80% of starting stack in @justsomedude 's thread that would seem to be ending around level 14 which is 3.5 hours plus breaks.

General question for quicker paced tournaments... If you had to pick one method of shortening the length of a tournament would you prefer faster levels, larger blind increases per level, or a smaller starting stack? Or perhaps a combination of those factors? Curious to hear what folks think.

 

[justsomedude]

General question for quicker paced tournaments... If you had to pick one method of shortening the length of a tournament would you prefer faster levels, larger blind increases per level, or a smaller starting stack? Or perhaps a combination of those factors? Curious to hear what folks think.

This doesn't really answer your question, but be careful going too short... you'll just induce a shove-fest any eliminate and semblance of poker.

 

[BGinGA]

General question for quicker paced tournaments... If you had to pick one method of shortening the length of a tournament would you prefer faster levels, larger blind increases per level, or a smaller starting stack? Or perhaps a combination of those factors? Curious to hear what folks think.

I typically start with a solid structure -- relatively mild (40% avg) and consistent increases with a decent number of big blinds in the starting stacks -- and then alter the blind level times to acheive the desired overall time target.

I rarely go below 15 minute levels; if something shorter than that is needed to meet time constraints, I will usually switch to a more aggressive structure (59% avg increases) with slightly longer levels.

Because most of my structures are built with deep stacks in mind (200-300bb), there is usually some room to reduce the stack size and still retain playability -- dropping to 150bb stacks still allows for a fair amount of play, for example.

 

[justsomedude]

It's looking like 10-12 players for tomorrow night. I'll probably just try to keep it simple and use the existing structure I have, with 15min levels... I'll speed it up towards the end if need be.

Using @inca911 bb+SB = 80% of starting stack in @justsomedude 's thread that would seem to be ending around level 14 which is 3.5 hours plus breaks.

Another way to look at it is total blinds. At round 14 you're going to have a total of 20 big blinds in play (with 100,000 total chips assuming 10 players). In my experience, tournaments end well before ever getting to this point. Especially with the mentality of fast play being entrenched due to your shorter structure, and a cash game starting up on the side that people will want to get to (which adds another psychological factor to playing style: "jam jam - I want to go play cash!"). Considering all these factors, I wouldn't be surprised if your tournament ends by Lvl 12 or Lvl 13.

Let us know how it turns out though... I'm very curious.

 

[Jambine]

Every minute you slice off the blind level times will shorten the event by 15 minutes, so 12-minute blinds will generally run at most 3 hours plus breaks

You might also consider limiting the "time to act" on your hand. Someone takes 3 minutes, that is 20% of the level.

 

[Wils]

Topless dealers.

Spoiler

Evil, evil, evil.

 

[RichMahogany]

Reviving an old thread.

@v1pe how did the tournament go? I have an event at work next month where I’m acting as the TD and I need a turbo/donkament structure that ends in 3- 3 1/4 hrs. Likely only one 5 min break.

 

[v1pe]

Reviving an old thread.

@v1pe how did the tournament go? I have an event at work next month where I’m acting as the TD and I need a turbo/donkament structure that ends in 3- 3 1/4 hrs. Likely only one 5 min break.

Old thread indeed! Was a long time ago but my recollection was that it went well. I think we only ended up having 8-9 players but I don't recall that the tourney over stated its welcome.

 

[BGinGA]

I have an event at work next month where I’m acting as the TD and I need a turbo/donkament structure that ends in 3- 3 1/4 hrs. Likely only one 5 min break.

How many players? You can put together a pretty decent structure that runs 3+ hours for a single table.

 

[RichMahogany]

How many players? You can put together a pretty decent structure that runs 3+ hours for a single table.

2 tables of 6.

 

[aaronroch]

Ok, this I can help with.
I have a fair bit of experience running tourneys for new/casual players. It can be frustrating, but can also be a lot of fun.

New players need things to be well organized, not too serious, and above all simple.
Imagine it like a "casino night" theme party and you can have a lot of fun with it.

My advice:

• Fun > serious. Your goal is an evening of fun, LIGHT entertainment. This just isn't gonna be serious poker, and that's okay.
• Dedicated dealers is VERY preferable in your case. (Because this is a one-off thing, not "training up" new players for a regular game.) Grab a helper or two from your regular game. If the dealers can dress like casino dealers or at least wear funny hats it really adds something to the atmosphere.
• Print out the blind schedules on posters and hang them up so that every player has one in their field of vision. Cross off blinds with a marker when they are over or figure out some other way of making the current level painfully obvious.
• Use the smallest denominations you can and start short-stacked.
• Plan for it to go 1-2 blind levels longer than it would for experienced players. Newbies are not aggressive enough in heads-up.
• Keep it well under 3 hours total (including a 15 minute break and a late start). Many new players do not have sustained interest or stamina beyond 2 hours.
• Lean toward longer blind levels with bigger jumps: new players get confused by blind changes. Every 12 minutes = they will never know what the stakes are and will constantly have to ask and/or bet wrong...
• Make the blind levels shorter when you get short-handed. Towards the end, your players will likely be tired of poker and just want it to be over... Don't hesitate to make it a fast, dramatic, luck-based finish.

One proposed donkament schedule for 12 players:

T1,500. 18,000 total on tables
Level blinds
1 25/50
2 50/100
3 100/200
4 200/400
5 300/600
6 500/1000
7 800/1500
8 1200/2500
9 2000/4000

20 minute blinds until you get down to 5 players, then 15 minutes, then 10 mins when heads-up. (Print that on the posters)
Anticipated end level 8.
15 minute break when you combine the two tables down to one. Color up 25s to 100s at that time.

Accounting for starting 10 mins late, the break running long and rookies pretty much checking their way through the final levels, that should still wrap up in just under 3 hours. Bear in mind no-one will be sad if it only lasts 2.5 hours.

And have fun!!

 

[aaronroch]

two other thoughts:

Assuming you will have some true novices, print out some cheat sheets for the rank of hands. Even folks that say "I've played poker" will want them.
Cash games with newbies get messy and I do not recommend them. If you do one, limit the buy-ins and have an experienced player "run" the game.

 

[RichMahogany]

two other thoughts:

Assuming you will have some true novices, print out some cheat sheets for the rank of hands. Even folks that say "I've played poker" will want them.
Cash games with newbies get messy and I do not recommend them. If you do one, limit the buy-ins and have an experienced player "run" the game.

Shouldn’t be any noobs. It’s for a private club and a fair amount of our membership are poker players. That is overall some great advice though, thanks!