Tourney New Buy-in Format w Re-Load (5 Viewers)

[Roslindale]

Looking for feedback on this new format before sending out to the confirmed attendees for next Saturday game.

Little background:
We normally play $60 buy-in get 20k chips and a free reload or top-off of 20k chips.
We play 2 tables. 17 to 19 players.
Its more of a social event. A nice meal is served at the break.

Invites were set out last week with the format above advertised. Game is now full at 19 people.
I want to adjust the format to the below. Its first time doing this new format.
Looking to cover expenses with the new format, and build a bigger pot.

Any thoughts or concerns is appropriated.

As an aside, ita not a hard core poker crowd at these, though there ade some hard-core poker players in attendance.

Proposed new format:
$60 buy in, get 20k chips plus a reload chip
$15 tip at buy-in get 7k chip bonus
Being ontime get 3k chip bonus

$35 to use reload chip before the break to get 20k chips
$5 tip with reload get 7k chip bonus

Free top-off of 15k chips with reload button at the break. (Must have chips in front of you)
$20 for a top-off without a reload chip for 15k
(Only 1 top-off per player at the break)

The blind structure is below:

Any thoughts on weaknesses in this new format?
Any ideas on a way that will make it better for a social experience?

 

[Preditor]

Overall pretty good. Some random, free-form thoughts.

• If I were tourney directing this, I feel there are a few too many options for people to top off their stack. Seems a lot to keep track of, and for players to keep track of. Personally? I would make it simple:
  • A buy-in
  • on-time chip bonus
  • one reload up to a certain break
  • MAYBE a single add-on
• I personally don't like free-top offs. It incentivizes recklessness. I am all for a social and casual game; but I still want it to be a game, not a free-for-all. Making people pay for a rebuy is important, IMHO.
• I would not tie an add-on to food. I would personally just incentivize people to tip for food, but not make it a reward. I don't like making food tied with gameplay advantage (but that is a me-thing).
• Regarding blind structure, I would alter the 250/500 and 350/700 levels (and the corresponding ones later in the tourney). Going from 300 to 500 is a 66% increase, while going from 700 to 800 is a 14% increase. That feels very inconsistent to me. I would have every other level (after the L1 to L2 100% jump) increase 25% and 33% alternating. I would go from 150/300 to 200/400, then 300/600, 400/800, and resume. Creates consistency with each level jump.

 

[Roslindale]

Thank you so much @Preditor for taking the time to read and respond. I really appreciate it.

On the blind structure, I think you are certainly on to something. So the blind structure has just been updated, by waiting an extra round to add the big blind ante.

Having the top off for free to those who haven't reloaded yet is necessary for now. Since originally it was advertised as a free reload or top-off. I'm keeping the free reload to those who didn't bust out and need to reload thier stack.
How we deal with that going forward is certainly in play. Part of the fun is using the reload 36MM chips that I had made for this set.

The tip to cover food and expenses has become almost necessary. Ive been spending a solid $200 out pocket for the tournaments in food and drink. This helps me to keep it going.
Some do put tips in the tip jar that is out, but certainly ot enough.
I'm expecting the tip for chips to be understood as just part of the buying in, and adopted by all.

We will probably serve a sirloin roast with mashed potatoes and veggies for the meal.. as an example of what happens.

My dream is to somehow include a meaningful bounty some day

 

[FestiveKnight]

Another way to think about it is to just have a fee as % of prize pool (or flat dollar amount of of each buy in, which is the same thing but might come across differently) just like any casino would. I think WSOP takes 5-10% for example.

Proposed new format:
$60 buy in, get 20k chips plus a reload chip
$15 tip at buy-in get 7k chip bonus
Being ontime get 3k chip bonus

$35 to use reload chip before the break to get 20k chips
$5 tip with reload get 7k chip bonus

Free top-off of 15k chips with reload button at the break. (Must have chips in front of you)
$20 for a top-off without a reload chip for 15k
(Only 1 top-off per player at the break)

So let's break down some examples of how this could go.

1. On time and in for $60 gets 23k of chips, runs them up and never dips below 20k before the break. In for $60 total, tipped $0, played with 23k chips total.
2. On time and in for $60, tips $15, starts with 30k of chips, quickly runs it down, pays $35 to reload and tips $5 for extra to get to 27K chips again, is low again at break, spends another $20 to top-up to 15k again. In for $135, tipped $40, played with 72k chips.
3. Late, in for $60, gets 20k chips. Doesn't want to put in any more money. Out when they bust.

This feels weird to me. 25% additional money upfront gets you a 35% increase in chips? Overall example 2 pays 125% more to get 213% more chips? It definitely incentives tipping but I don't like how messy the different amounts and cut offs are.

Personally, I would do:


$60 buy in gets: 20k chips + reload button. 3k extra for on time.

Reload button:

• Can be used to rebuy at any time before break if felted.
• Can be used to surrender stack and reenter tournament with 25k chips at any time before break.
• Awards 5k chips add-on if not used before break.

Additionally, players may pay $60 to re-enter tournament (new seat/table assignment) without a reload button. No on time bonus. Can only reenter once.

With 16 players, $60 gets you $960 in the pot. You'd need to take 20% out to cover $200, which seems like too much to me. If every player reentered, you'd only need to take 10%, but that doesn't seem like with your crew. For this one, I would maybe take 8% out and then ask that anyone who has brisket tip $5 because that's the most expensive component. For future tournaments, you can slightly increase buy-in and then increase percentage fee. Just make it a $75 tournament and say $15 comes out of the first buy in. The re-entry is $60 only or something. $15 x 16 gets you above your $200 cost.


FWIW I have been dealing with this same issue, we have a pretty good spread, no way my usual cost is less than $350 probably, we have a lot of +1s and non-poker players too. To get a pittance back and work on putting the Encore out of business (lol) I am offering 50¢ minimum BJ which net me $20 last time lol. And now taking $15 from everyone who stays for dinner.

 

[Roslindale]

Thank you @FestiveKnight!

Its true that its not a linear way of distributing chips.
I honestly don't know how people will react to this format, or how it will work.

On the percentage of buy-in to cover expenses. It might be less legal that way. I'm thinking that sounds like a rake, which I understand to be illegal for a home game.

Certainly its a work in progress. Time will tell what will work best.

As an aside, I do want to keep the cost as low as possible for the players. If people want to spend big money, my game it not the place.
The only person spending big money is the guy buying the chips when he already swore off buying more.

 

[FestiveKnight]

As an aside, I do want to keep the cost as low as possible for the players. If people want to spend big money, my game it not the place.
The only person spending big money is the guy buying the chips when he already swore off buying more.

That's fair! But you've got a nice spot and are a great generous host, always good time, good food, comfy set up. I think that's worth $10-$15 for sure

 

[Deucekies]

Thank you so much @Preditor for taking the time to read and respond. I really appreciate it.

On the blind structure, I think you are certainly on to something. So the blind structure has just been updated, by waiting an extra round to add the big blind ante. View attachment 1533169

Any particular reason you're attached to those unusual blind levels? 350/700 and 45000/90000 seem very out of place.

 

[Eriks]

Seems unnecessarily complicated. Can’t you just have everyone who wants to eat/drink from the house give you 10 bucks (or whatever) without it being tied to the tournament?

The 250/500 and 350/700 levels are weird and requires T25-chips to be in play longer than what should be necessary.
I’d go:

150/300
Color-up
200/400
300/600
400/800

 

[Roslindale]

@Eriks
That looks like it could work.

I'm going to try thar.

Getting thr greens off the table would be nice.

 

[Deucekies]

Seems unnecessarily complicated. Can’t you just have everyone who wants to eat/drink from the house give you 10 bucks (or whatever) without it being tied to the tournament?

The 250/500 and 350/700 levels are weird and requires T25-chips to be in play longer than what should be necessary.
I’d go:

150/300
Color-up
200/400
300/600
400/800

I didn't question the 250/500 because I assumed the OP wanted to keep the greens in play as long as possible.

If that's not the case, then yeah, 250/500 becomes 200/400, 350/700 becomes 300/600, 3500/7000 becomes 3000/6000, and 45k/90k becomes 40k/80k.

 

[Roslindale]

New and improved blind structure.

With a little help from PCF input.

Thank you :
@Eriks
@Deucekies

 

[gg11]

I would not tie an add-on to food. I would personally just incentivize people to tip for food, but not make it a reward. I don't like making food tied with gameplay advantage (but that is a me-thing).

Seems unnecessarily complicated. Can’t you just have everyone who wants to eat/drink from the house give you 10 bucks (or whatever) without it being tied to the tournament?

I couldn't agree more with both of the above.

While I can understand the all-inclusive model, I wouldn't like it part of gameplay. If I don't like the menu or just not that hungry I wouldn't want that affecting my tournament stack size. I'd much prefer to just keep those separate; anyone who wants food/drinks, please pitch in $X or feel free to bring/order anything.

When I host I provide snacks & beer and might be lucky as people bring the same anyway and we just order dinner.

 

[digirati]

What does this mean?

$15 tip at buy-in get 7k chip bonus

 

[Roslindale]

The even went well last night....

The $15 tip took in $275, (I person gave an extra $5) the add on tops added $20. Totalling $295.

I spent about $360 on food and drinks alone for a 10lb leg of lamb, a farro&chick pea salad, fresh carrots roasted, seltzer, beer, water.

The meal was well received. Many guests brought appetizers to help out the cause.

It was a success, with 18 attendees.

 

[Roslindale]

It used to be. The winner would tip out of the winnings, not nearly covering the expenses.

The $15 tip was basically part of the buy-in. So we all had the same amount of chips.

We all acknowledge the amount of time, energy, and effort that goes into hosting. Along with the financial effect. For example, I spent over $500 to get some 10k chips into play. They were a big hit, but Noone really knows the amount I spent to get them.