Navigating loose games multiway post-flop (1 Viewer)

[dylanthepiguy2]

I've started playing in a game that I found difficult to adjust to. People here are really splashing and loose, often getting multiple Cold Callers of a 48bb 3b. You even see 200 big blind racers and cold callers with trash hands! We're playing 25c/25c $50 buy in, $100 buy in after the first hour.

The difficulty is navigating multiway when there is almost always probe bets on the flop, sometimes over bets, when the pre-flop aggressor checks on the flop. I pretty much always end up missing the 4-way flop, not even hitting some kind of draw (I'm playing pretty tight preflop).

Say everyone's stack is either $50 or $100, I'm always at least approx $100 deep
theres 2 limpers from EP
LJ raise to $2.25
I 3b to $12 from HJ with KsQc
BTN, limpers, LJ call (loosely)

Pot is $48.50
3h Jc 9c
checks around to me
I check
BTN stab $22
one limper and LJ call

Here i would normally assume to just fold here, because I'm probably so far behind (maybe a jam is actually better on this scenario)?

I guess in general, how do you navigate these sorts of games? I see a good player float quite a bit with similar fuck all to jam as bluff later on. I guess that burns some money to let you see the action of the other players and recoup the money with a bluff on later streets? I've mainly played in online games, or live where flops dont go as multiway, and it's easy to milk the lags by giving them max rope to bluff when you have anything.

 

[JMC9389]

Fold the hand in the post as played.

Try to get it all in pre with your premiums when you have the most equity.

Lead out large when you call and go multiways and catch.

 

[ekricket]

You should change the title of this thread to

“How to play hands at a meetup”

 

[JMC9389]

Fold the hand in the post as played.

Try to get it all in pre with your premiums when you have the most equity.

Lead out large when you call and go multiways and catch.

Forgot to add. Don't bluff. You'll get picked off 99% of the time. Unfortunately it's best to play straight forward ABC style in these games.

 

[pokerplayingpisces]

Fold the hand in the post as played.

Try to get it all in pre with your premiums when you have the most equity.

Lead out large when you call and go multiways and catch.

Forgot to add. Don't bluff. You'll get picked off 99% of the time. Unfortunately it's best to play straight forward ABC style in these games.

Excellent advice! Exactly what I would’ve said myself.

 

[allforcharity]

Forgot to add. Don't bluff. You'll get picked off 99% of the time. Unfortunately it's best to play straight forward ABC style in these games.

Always Be Calling? (Heh)

 

[Kentucky]

Forgot to add. Don't bluff. You'll get picked off 99% of the time. Unfortunately it's best to play straight forward ABC style in these games.

Second this. Not bluffing applies to 3-betting too. 3! a linear range so you aren’t playing in bloated pots with marginal hands (like KQo ) See the flop cheaply and get out if you don’t hit, or pile in the money when you hit big.

 

[DrStrange]

e.g.

Playing in a 1-2 game with well financed lunatics. Preflop goes 1-2 (straddle to 7) Opening raise to 40. Four callers. Pot is ~$200

Flop is Check to original raiser bets $75, gets two callers. Pot is ~$425

Turn brings < > Checks to original raiser bets $125, gets one caller. Pot is ~$675

River falls < > Check to original raiser who bets $200 and gets shoved on for about $500 more lets call it a half pot sized check-shove

Villain tanks for several minutes then folds pocket jacks. Shover shows 8 7 for the nut full house.

Moral of hand: Villains are sometimes stupid sticky. Its a four-card straight, paired board with ultra deep stacks. The aggressor puts ~$500 or 250 bb into a massively multi-way pot with a shabby over-pair. And seriously considered punting off another $500 because he can't put the other guy on a better hand. I'd call that pretty close to unbluffable.

You play hands for "cheap" and wait to make a monster. Or you maneuver your preflop monster to get to an ultra-low SPR or even all-in preflop. No bluffing. No c-betting. semi-bluffs are pot builders, not for getting folds.

Hold on tight, the ride will be bumpy even if it is profitable -=- DrStrange

PS this game features double board PLO bomb pots when someone wins a holdem hand with a pair in the mitt. One can only imagine the carnage.

 

[TheHobbyist]

Personally these are the best games. Should be folding a ton to these large raises and over bets. I also see a lot of over valuing over pairs and top pairs in this type of game

 

[Frogzilla]

i think I float the gutter, two overs and backdoor club

 

[HiveKueen]

I've started playing in a game that I found difficult to adjust to. People here are really splashing and loose, often getting multiple Cold Callers of a 48bb 3b. You even see 200 big blind racers and cold callers with trash hands! We're playing 25c/25c $50 buy in, $100 buy in after the first hour.

The difficulty is navigating multiway when there is almost always probe bets on the flop, sometimes over bets, when the pre-flop aggressor checks on the flop. I pretty much always end up missing the 4-way flop, not even hitting some kind of draw (I'm playing pretty tight preflop).

Say everyone's stack is either $50 or $100, I'm always at least approx $100 deep
theres 2 limpers from EP
LJ raise to $2.25
I 3b to $12 from HJ with KsQc
BTN, limpers, LJ call (loosely)

Pot is $48.50
3h Jc 9c
checks around to me
I check
BTN stab $22
one limper and LJ call

Here i would normally assume to just fold here, because I'm probably so far behind (maybe a jam is actually better on this scenario)?

I guess in general, how do you navigate these sorts of games? I see a good player float quite a bit with similar fuck all to jam as bluff later on. I guess that burns some money to let you see the action of the other players and recoup the money with a bluff on later streets? I've mainly played in online games, or live where flops dont go as multiway, and it's easy to milk the lags by giving them max rope to bluff when you have anything.

I would play higher stakes, that is, not play at this level of play.

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

I would play higher stakes, that is, not play at this level of play.

You would rather not play in the sea?

Would you rather not play a table where the biggest whale is often down 1600 big blinds at the end of the night?

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

i think I float the gutter, two overs and backdoor club

what’s the plan on the future streets?

e.g.

Playing in a 1-2 game with well financed lunatics. Preflop goes 1-2 (straddle to 7) Opening raise to 40. Four callers. Pot is ~$200

Flop is Check to original raiser bets $75, gets two callers. Pot is ~$425

Turn brings < > Checks to original raiser bets $125, gets one caller. Pot is ~$675

River falls < > Check to original raiser who bets $200 and gets shoved on for about $500 more lets call it a half pot sized check-shove

Villain tanks for several minutes then folds pocket jacks. Shover shows 8 7 for the nut full house.

Moral of hand: Villains are sometimes stupid sticky. Its a four-card straight, paired board with ultra deep stacks. The aggressor puts ~$500 or 250 bb into a massively multi-way pot with a shabby over-pair. And seriously considered punting off another $500 because he can't put the other guy on a better hand. I'd call that pretty close to unbluffable.

You play hands for "cheap" and wait to make a monster. Or you maneuver your preflop monster to get to an ultra-low SPR or even all-in preflop. No bluffing. No c-betting. semi-bluffs are pot builders, not for getting folds.

Hold on tight, the ride will be bumpy even if it is profitable -=- DrStrange

PS this game features double board PLO bomb pots when someone wins a holdem hand with a pair in the mitt. One can only imagine the carnage.

So how do you keep the SPR deep enough when people just don’t fold to pretty much any pre-flop open raise? Just give up and go really small and accept that the pot is probably gonna go 6 ways multiway instead of 4?

 

[DrStrange]

Navigating to favorable SPR situations requires Heros to pay attention to the various stack sizes and the nature of the players playing each stack. Hero's stack too! Also making adjustments for special circumstances for a specific hand, like straddles, blind bets or bomb pots. SPR = 0 is often Hero's ultimate goal.

Hand selection needs to be reconsidered. "one pair" hands play terribly multiway with deep stacks and high SPRs. e.g. we may find 97s plays better than AQo even though AQo is something like a top 5% hand if the hand plays out "normally".

Be mindful that straddles, blind bets and bomb pots restructure the sizing of each hand. If a hand starts out with a $25 straddle, your $1,000 stack is only 40bb deep.

For example: let's say we have a pair of players in a bidding war with each other making bigger / wilder preflop bets. Especially wild 3-bets and/or hugely oversized opening raises. I might decide to use premium hands as trapping hands. Maybe limping as a trap or making a pathetically small normal raise. However, I get there what I want is to bet huge or jam on top of all the foolhardy action preceding me.

Let's take my previous example with the $40 preflop followed by four callers. If Hero had limped a big pair planning to trap - well now the trap is filled with tasty chips. Jamming $800 all-in into a $160 pot means the players with the speculative hands have to fold their tents or they have to play all-in vs an over-pair. Its either free money or Hero gets to play the hand with a sizable ev overlay. Note this is true even if the donkey train brings in all the players. A five-way all-in hand with an over pair is going to have huge variance but the over pair is extracting an EV premium.

There needs to be a clear understanding of how this sort of game plays out. The variance is going to be high. Many hands become unplayable in a 1-2-40 game ----> meaning Hero is going to folding a lot. Hero needs to have a substantial limp-fold preflop range. <Because Hero has to bait the trap, you know.>

Hero will often be folding or jamming a lot when his stack is "short". Noting that a $200 buy-in is effectively a 5bb stack when some villain is regularly playing a $40 opening raise. Hero might spend the entire session limping, folding or jamming.

It isn't for the faint of heart. This isn't deep stacked poker played with finesse and craft. This is "smash-mouth" gambling. You want a piece of ME!!?? Well fine, we play for rolls, one hand, all or nothing. Be sure to have some fun along the way -=- DrStrange

 

[Kentucky]

So how do you keep the SPR deep enough when people just don’t fold to pretty much any pre-flop open raise? Just give up and go really small and accept that the pot is probably gonna go 6 ways multiway instead of 4?

As the good Dr. describes we’re limp jamming with our premiums and limp calling with hands that can make monsters. When we do get to the 6 way pots we only need to win 20% of them to have a massive edge. Keep trying to remember that you’re supposed to lose most of the pots you’re in.

A problem with games like this is getting to see enough hands to counter the variance. I imagine the hand rate is slow with people splashing around probably not paying loads of attention. Never mind that we need to wait for 6 decisions each street! We can be busy losing our 80% of hands while still maintaining our edge, then it’s time to go home before we even hit once. You just gotta go back every week and grind it out.

 

[upNdown]

i think I float the gutter, two overs and backdoor club

That’s my thought too, since we’re closing the action. But folding is fine.