Tourney League points formula (1 Viewer)

BigSlickTux

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I thought I would share this, as I found it super helpful and well thought out and I just found it again written on a piece of paper from years ago. Some of you may already use this or something similar. I got this formula from back in the day on the forums of HomePokerTourney. I believe it was a username of “Dr. Neau” (not sure about spelling) that created this. Plug this into Excel or Google Sheets and it gives you a point system that adjusts to number of players and total money spent (e.g., if you had any rebuys or add-ons). Example would be less points for beating a field of 8 vs 10, or more points to someone who only initially bought in vs. somebody that had to rebuy.

Here is the formula:
=SQRT(((total # of players*buy-in amount)*(buy-in amount/total $ spent))/(place finish+1))

Enjoy!
 
I forgot to mention for those who don’t know that this formula would be in the cell that is the player’s total points for one game. Repeat for every other player.
 
I don’t think bounties should affect the points at all. It is solely based on how much money you contribute, player count, and position finish. Maybe I don’t fully understand your question? Would you be willing to tell me your ideas with bounties in relation to points?
 
I thought I would share this, as I found it super helpful and well thought out and I just found it again written on a piece of paper from years ago. Some of you may already use this or something similar. I got this formula from back in the day on the forums of HomePokerTourney. I believe it was a username of “Dr. Neau” (not sure about spelling) that created this. Plug this into Excel or Google Sheets and it gives you a point system that adjusts to number of players and total money spent (e.g., if you had any rebuys or add-ons). Example would be less points for beating a field of 8 vs 10, or more points to someone who only initially bought in vs. somebody that had to rebuy.

Here is the formula:
=SQRT(((total # of players*buy-in amount)*(buy-in amount/total $ spent))/(place finish+1))

Enjoy!
Our formula is super easy.

If 23 players, then 1st = 23, 2nd = 22 etc.
 
We want to encourage more "action" by having points for bounties.
Simple as that.
Our formula is super easy.

If 23 players, then 1st = 23, 2nd = 22 etc.
We use this "formula" till last season, adding 0,5 point for each player eliminated.
I would like to introduce the bounty factor in the new formula with the right proportion.
 
I would suggest playing around with reducing a percentage of the “total money spent” portion of the formula to introduce bounties. As an example, maybe 5% off per bounty?
 
Our formula is super easy.

If 23 players, then 1st = 23, 2nd = 22 etc.
That formula doesn’t take into account rebuys or add ons. I think place finish based on how much money you invested is very important. If you are able to get higher place finish with only one buy in, you should be rewarded with more points.
 
We use this formula in our league and it has worked well so far. The higher the buy-in, the slightly higher the points totals for the tournament. Most of our events are $20 buy-ins ,but we do have at least 2 $30 buy-in tournaments where the winner receives a bracelet. These tournaments are considered our major events and are worth slightly more in points. Losing a bit of points does factor in to whether some people decide to rebuy or not. If you finish in the top 2 or 3 spots, you can still pull some decent points for a rebuy. We have 11 tournaments throughout the year and keep player's top 5 scores for the season. This way, if players miss a tournament for whatever reason, it will not hurt their overall score. The top 10 players at the end of the season compete in our Main Event Championship Tournament with extra money added to the prize pool and the winner receives our Main Event Championship bracelet.

Here is how the points have played out so far this year. It is still a pretty tight race on the top half of the board. A win with no re-buys usually nets you about 8 or 9 points on average so anyone in the top 10 could theoretically jump into first place with one decent win.

Screenshot 2023-12-17 120545.png
 
We use this formula in our league and it has worked well so far. The higher the buy-in, the slightly higher the points totals for the tournament. Most of our events are $20 buy-ins ,but we do have at least 2 $30 buy-in tournaments where the winner receives a bracelet. These tournaments are considered our major events and are worth slightly more in points. Losing a bit of points does factor in to whether some people decide to rebuy or not. If you finish in the top 2 or 3 spots, you can still pull some decent points for a rebuy. We have 11 tournaments throughout the year and keep player's top 5 scores for the season. This way, if players miss a tournament for whatever reason, it will not hurt their overall score. The top 10 players at the end of the season compete in our Main Event Championship Tournament with extra money added to the prize pool and the winner receives our Main Event Championship bracelet.

Here is how the points have played out so far this year. It is still a pretty tight race on the top half of the board. A win with no re-buys usually nets you about 8 or 9 points on average so anyone in the top 10 could theoretically jump into first place with one decent win.

View attachment 1246526
Just curious, but what exactly is the formula?
 
SQRT(((total # of players*buy-in amount)*(buy-in amount/total $ spent))/(place finish+1))

It is the formula at the top of this thread.
Thanks. I don't know why, but it was late when I wrote that and I didn't make the connection haha.
 
Any suggestion about adding bounties to this formula?
Still tweaking my own formula. But couldn't you just add the number of knockouts to this at the end? So (SQRT(((total # of players*buy-in amount)*(buy-in amount/total $ spent))/(place finish+1))) + knockouts

I'm trying to get knockouts to not be major point contributors, but tie-breakers here and there so - when players are super close in points - the one with a few more knockouts can get the edge.
 
Something I forgot to mention is that the buy-in amount $ in my formula it's probably irrelevant because all the tournaments of the league have the same format (same buy-in and same structure, except for the final).
The max number of players is 20 and we allow just 1 rebuy per player.
I think it's more important to introduce in the formula the total number of rebuys and the bounties.

Saying that, I have no clue how to do it...!! :LOL: :laugh:


PS: I just found this formula...
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/...971122324f6402f#:~:text=10:38 PM-,#5,-pfapfap

score = (((0.1 * (a - b)) + (10.0 * ((c - d) + 1.0))) + (10.0 * e))

where

a = Player Total Revenue
b = Player Total Expense
c = Tournament Buy-in Count
d = Player Finish
e = Player Knockout Count

Not sure if it can help me... :unsure:
 
I've been playing around with this formula a lot today trying to figure out a way to introduce knockouts to the equation. At first I did a simple "+1" for every knockout at the end, but it seemed an outsized reward.

Then I thought, "What if we reward them for the percentage of the field they knock out?"

So I came up with this addition to the top line of the equation, and am curious as to everyone's thoughts:

=SQRT(((total # of players*buy-in amount)*(buy-in amount/total $ spent)*(1+(number of knockouts / total # of players))/(place finish+1))

Basically, this gives you a percentage multiplier based on knockouts. If you knockout 4/16 players? That's 25% of the field, and that gives you a 25% point multiplier for the top line of the equation, which may help compensate for a point loss if you took a rebuy/buy-in.

Not sure if this is the best way to do this. Less players means every knockout is worth more points; but if there are less easy short-stacks to target with less players, maybe that's fair?

Wanted to throw it out and hear everyone's thoughts.

#NotAMathematician

EDIT: FWIW, I ran some numbers, and after all said and done, a tournament of 16 people appears to equal a 3% point increase per knockout if you add this modification to the topline. For an 8-person tournament, each knockout results in a 6% increase (though obviously there are less possibilities for knockouts). It scales roughly that way the more/less you get.

EDIT #2: If anyone is a Blind Vallet Club User, here is how it translates on their platform: sqrt((p*b)*(b/c)*(1+(k/p)))/(f+1)
 
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I've been playing around with this formula a lot today trying to figure out a way to introduce knockouts to the equation. At first I did a simple "+1" for every knockout at the end, but it seemed an outsized reward.

Then I thought, "What if we reward them for the percentage of the field they knock out?"

So I came up with this addition to the top line of the equation, and am curious as to everyone's thoughts:

=SQRT(((total # of players*buy-in amount)*(buy-in amount/total $ spent)*(1+(number of knockouts / total # of players))/(place finish+1))

Basically, this gives you a percentage multiplier based on knockouts. If you knockout 4/16 players? That's 25% of the field, and that gives you a 25% point multiplier for the top line of the equation, which may help compensate for a point loss if you took a rebuy/buy-in.

Not sure if this is the best way to do this. Less players means every knockout is worth more points, but then again it there are less easy short-stacks to target with less players, so maybe that's fair?

Wanted to throw it out and hear everyone's thoughts.

#NotAMathematician
In the past, whenever we have held a bounty tournament, it seems that the majority of the knockouts go to the top finishers in the tournaments. Not all the time but probably most of the time. We have thought about adding some kind of points for knockouts but in the end, decided against it. It seems like if most of the knockouts go to the top finishers, then adding points to knockouts will just widen the gap between the top and bottom finishers in the tournaments. The top players will run away with the lead earlier in the season and the bottom dwellers will have less of a chance to catch up if they keep playing how they play. I would rather keep the scores a little closer throughout the season. You don't want the bottom of the league to totally lose interest halfway through the season.

Also, I prefer first place to get the most points and have the score mean something. If you can counter balance the loss of points from rebuys with extra points from knockouts then it kind of makes winning a tournament with no rebuys not mean as much.

If you were going to add points for rebuys then I would make them a fraction of a point like .1 or .2 points per knockout. Anything higher and it might possibly be more important to get knockouts than wins.
 
In the past, whenever we have held a bounty tournament, it seems that the majority of the knockouts go to the top finishers in the tournaments. Not all the time but probably most of the time. We have thought about adding some kind of points for knockouts but in the end, decided against it. It seems like if most of the knockouts go to the top finishers, then adding points to knockouts will just widen the gap between the top and bottom finishers in the tournaments. The top players will run away with the lead earlier in the season and the bottom dwellers will have less of a chance to catch up if they keep playing how they play. I would rather keep the scores a little closer throughout the season. You don't want the bottom of the league to totally lose interest halfway through the season.

Also, I prefer first place to get the most points and have the score mean something. If you can counter balance the loss of points from rebuys with extra points from knockouts then it kind of makes winning a tournament with no rebuys not mean as much.

If you were going to add points for rebuys then I would make them a fraction of a point like .1 or .2 points per knockout. Anything higher and it might possibly be more important to get knockouts than wins.
This is a good point. I need to host more leagues. Curious, how long do your leagues run and how many games on average?
 
Our season lasts a year with about one tournament per month. We shoot for 11 tournaments per season and keep each player's top 5 scores. The top 10 players will make it to the Main Event Championship Tournament which is our 12th tournament of the year. Currently our league has 20 members.
 
In the past, whenever we have held a bounty tournament, it seems that the majority of the knockouts go to the top finishers in the tournaments. Not all the time but probably most of the time. We have thought about adding some kind of points for knockouts but in the end, decided against it. It seems like if most of the knockouts go to the top finishers, then adding points to knockouts will just widen the gap between the top and bottom finishers in the tournaments. The top players will run away with the lead earlier in the season and the bottom dwellers will have less of a chance to catch up if they keep playing how they play. I would rather keep the scores a little closer throughout the season. You don't want the bottom of the league to totally lose interest halfway through the season.
FWIW, leagues are new to me. I've been hosting for 6 months, and want to add league scoring to our group. So I appreciate all perspectives.

You make fair and excellent points. But I think it is highly depending on the players.

For me right now, a lot of my players are really nitty. Last tournament (6-players deep because of Christmas), the short-stack was T8K in a T10K tourney at the first break. League points is a way to try to incentivize them to play a little looser. And because of that, I want to give something for knockouts.

Also, I prefer first place to get the most points and have the score mean something. If you can counter balance the loss of points from rebuys with extra points from knockouts then it kind of makes winning a tournament with no rebuys not mean as much.
Agreed. It's tricky. For me, I plan on doing a final TOC free roll with the top 6 (maybe 8) players. So I think the top 3 people will be the most skilled players, and the bottom 3 will be the mediocre players. But knockouts might help break that 6 player bubble for the bottom 3.

If you were going to add points for rebuys then I would make them a fraction of a point like .1 or .2 points per knockout. Anything higher and it might possibly be more important to get knockouts than wins.
I agree with this. This is my aim.

I think once most tourneys become heads-up, it's essentially a coin toss who wins. And a few times in our game, the second place winner has done the most leg-work knocking others out, getting maybe four knockouts to the 1st place's one or two. So I want to find a way to reward that. Not massively reward it, but to give some edge that looks small per tourney, but can add up over the course of a season. That way if two players are on the bubble of a final TOC table, knockouts might be the factor that pushes them over.

As it currently works in the formula I tweaked above, each knockout in a 16-player tourney seems to increase points by about 3%, so it hardly offsets the 10-30% penalty of those who rebuy or add-on. But it can kind of make up for it.
 
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Our is basic lol
When we have bounties we just add +1 per elimination.

1- 10
2- 8
3- 7
4- 6
5- 5
6- 4
7- 3
8- 2
9- 1
10- 0
 
Our is basic lol

Basic, yes.

But then you don't get to spend an entire afternoon writing out a lengthy equation in Word for your 16-player (if you're lucky) home poker league and get to feel like you're J. Robert Oppenheimer.

Now I am math, the destroyer of time.

Priorities.

Screenshot 2023-12-29 at 11.06.19 PM.png
 

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