That is strange. Never seen that on cards before. Looks like finish checking, similar to something you see on an original nitrocellulose lacquer finish. This is something that takes 40+ years to show up naturally on guitars. This occurs as the finish expands and contracts with the wood of the guitar, due to change in humidity. Not saying its the case with your cards, but looks very similar. Here is a pic of one of my acoustics made in the late 60's showing heavy checking.
KEM - Don't understand the hype. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tanner Kaza
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That is strange. Never seen that on cards before. Looks like finish checking, similar to something you see on an original nitrocellulose lacquer finish. This is something that takes 40+ years to show up naturally on guitars. This occurs as the finish expands and contracts with the wood of the guitar, due to change in humidity. Not saying its the case with your cards, but looks very similar. Here is a pic of one of my acoustics made in the late 60's showing heavy checking.
justsomedude
Straight Flush
Do you mind sharing the seller name? Perhaps in a PM?
I bought a couple setups of KEMs off eBay last year from a known/reputable poker retailer. They made it clear in the description that the cards were used, but in "good" condition. The KEMs I received were so severely bowed that they were unusable. Thankfully, the retailer issued a refund. Just curious if this is becoming their MO; that is, selling dodgy used KEMs.
Mac128k
Flush
Being a guitar nut myself, I’m very familiar with finish checking. It is very similar except that in the cards case there is space between the checks which looks more like a melt.
If this guy doesn’t send for his cards maybe I’ll send some around to you guys for kicks and investgative purposes.
I have seen that several of you guys don't like Kems, but I think they are still my favorite cards to play with. Easiest cards to shuffle that I have used. I'm still looking for my favorite cards to use, but my Kems just can't be beat. I have had one deck that bowed, but the rest have been fine. I guess it is one of those to each their own things.
Old State
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I boycotted them after I had a few decks bow on me. After 11 years I decided to buy a deck. Well I forgot how good they feel. Nothing feels as good. Not even close. Everything feels inferior next to them. Desjgns and Cartamundi Acetates are the closest but Cartamundi are very slick. Even with a higher probability of bowing than other cards I'm still tempted to buy more decks. Im hopefull that the new rougher texture is the sign of an improved material.
I've got a couple buttons sitting around, good to know!
Mikiethebull
High Hand
I must say that Kems really do suck. Despite mixed reviews, I figured I would try a set. I've been happy with my Copags, but figured I would step it up. These cards were so light and flimsy out of the package I could barely shuffle them. They felt like paper - thin and wispy; not at all what I expected.
I have Fournier 2818s on order, and I'm considering picking up a set of Modiano PAs as well.
I have Fournier 2818s on order, and I'm considering picking up a set of Modiano PAs as well.
Mikiethebull
High Hand
. . . have some NTPs on order as well.
That's why they have chocolate and vanilla. I love my KEM's and the guys really seem to like them too. The difference is that the other setup at my games is always paper cards. Once I burn through those, I'm going to get a setup from a different card maker. Also going to go with bridge size to see which the guys like better.
Old State
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To Longflops point that why we have choice.
However most of the negative commentary regarding Kems has to do with their potential for warping. As for feel, they remain very popular ... which is why they still are the most common card in cardrooms all over the US and why they feel they can command the high price they do (I guess).
To me they are the gold standard when it comes to feel...and I’ve almost tried them all (still need some Piatnik’s)
Interesting you find them flimsy coming from Copags. I used only Copag and Kems for years when they were the only real choices. Copags feel substantially flimsier to me.
I have so many different decks from different manufacturers I usually play with a few different ones each game. I have 3 groups I play with and of every deck Kems consistently get the most compliments from my players. Usually something like “now these are nice. what kind are these?”
I usually get very little commentary from any other brand related to feel other than Copags which get the most complaints for being “slippery” or “flimsy”. I did get a complaint one night about Gemaco Superflex being to stiff.
I have got many compliments on the looks of my Desjgns and I like the feel of them.
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Its funny, everyone seems to agree that taste is a very subjective sense but I think everyone also assumes that feel, or tactile sensation is not. I am sure that tactile is in fact very subjective and each person experiences the tactile feedback of the world differently. I know I do from other people. I think it is perfectly natural for one person to think KEMS are flimsy and another that they are stiff. It all comes down to your body's input form touch to brain which then influences your personal preferences.
As long as the cards aren't marked it is all good.
As long as the cards aren't marked it is all good.
I understood about 8 words of that first paragraph.
My writing can be very sesquipedalian and loquacious.
Mikiethebull
High Hand
Are you guys who like Kems using Bridge size or Poker size? I would venture to guess the bridge size might feel a bit sturdier. I'll compare my Copags and Kems side by side tomorrow
The obsequiousness of your pedagogic discourse borders on effrontery.
ok, that one actually made my head hurt.
I've got the poker size. I have never played with the bridge size, I wish I could help.
Old State
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I only play with bridge sized cards. My very first Kems (pre USPC) were Poker sized but they bowed like crazy. Once I found bridge sized cards I never went back.
If you like thick heavy stiff feeling cards go with Gemaco Superflex. Da Vinci and Modiano, Guild made cards are second stiffest. Then Fournier. Then Desjgns which are the second best feeling card next to Kem IMO. I know he used Modiano but what ever stock he picked is different than Modiano cards I have.
Copags are thin and plastic feeling. They are very flexible but cheaper feeling IMO
Kems feel almost soft and luxurious. They are noticeably quieter when you riffle them to. I’ve found all my acetate cards feel softer.
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@Old State, you wrote about exactly how I feel about all of them. To me, there is just something about Kems.
Mikiethebull
High Hand
Ok, just did a side by side comparison - Kems vs Compags
(1) Thickness - I was surprised here, Kems are indeed the thicker card of the two.
(2) Texture - Kems have more of a textured feel than Copag and are bit more slick. Just personal preference here as to what you like. I'm indifferent on this, but if I had to choose, I prefer the texture of the Kems.
(3) Firmness - This is where Kems fall short in IMHO. While Kems are thicker than Copags, they feel less substantial because they are so floppy. Copags are more sturdy. They shuffle louder and have substantially more snap than Kems.
(4) Weight - TBD
Item (3) is the dealbreaker for me with Kems - just very soft and blah, where the Copags are more lively with more snap.
These are the poker sized cards though, and I imagine the narrower bridge sized cards used casino poker games might provide a bit more of that snap I feel is missing in the poker sized cards. While most Casino poker rooms use bridge size cards, I have big hands and don't care for them all that much. For only two dealt cards, I prefer the larger poker size.
(1) Thickness - I was surprised here, Kems are indeed the thicker card of the two.
(2) Texture - Kems have more of a textured feel than Copag and are bit more slick. Just personal preference here as to what you like. I'm indifferent on this, but if I had to choose, I prefer the texture of the Kems.
(3) Firmness - This is where Kems fall short in IMHO. While Kems are thicker than Copags, they feel less substantial because they are so floppy. Copags are more sturdy. They shuffle louder and have substantially more snap than Kems.
(4) Weight - TBD
Item (3) is the dealbreaker for me with Kems - just very soft and blah, where the Copags are more lively with more snap.
These are the poker sized cards though, and I imagine the narrower bridge sized cards used casino poker games might provide a bit more of that snap I feel is missing in the poker sized cards. While most Casino poker rooms use bridge size cards, I have big hands and don't care for them all that much. For only two dealt cards, I prefer the larger poker size.
It’s funny how subjective this is. That “snap” that makes them feel more substantial to you is what makes them feel stiff and (combined with the lack of texture) clumsy to me. I don’t like them at all.
The limited experience I have with KEM’s makes me think they’re the best. But when I can get similar feeling setups for at least $10 less, I stay away from KEM. And though I’ve never owned a setup long enough to witness it, I believe the warping issue is real, why bother.
But I’d never say they’re overrated, just overpriced.
You're so right about the subjectiveness. Copags are by far my least favorite of any of the card I have played with. I wouldn't go so far as to say I would rather play with paper cards than Copags, but it's not too far off. I would also agree that Kems are overpriced, but definitely not overrated.
Jambine
Full House
Bridge, cuz I'm playing poker. I don't remember the last time I played poker with "Poker" sized cards. Maybe a kitchen table game for pennies with paper cards
This is anectdotal ridiculousness, but the only night I put copses into play, about an hour in, one of my buddies sliced his hand open with one of them, dropped the deck on the floor, then dripped blood all over the deck becfore he realized what happened.
I was happy to throw them out because i’d already decided they were the worst plastic cards I’d ever played with. But I can’t say I’ve seen that happen with any other deck.
Old State
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I have no issue using Poker sized cards where they are appropriate....and that would be when playing Blackjack
Friends dont let friends play poker with Poker sized cards
Interesting that you posted this. I'd completely forgotten about it, but many years ago when our group was using Copag cards (and I was dealing every event), I sliced my hand open on a card. Have never had that happen -- or seen it happen since -- using any other brand.
Mikiethebull
High Hand
Curious - do u use the bridge size or Poker size?
Mikiethebull
High Hand
LOL - kinda funny. I can just picture it. Did he bleed on your table?
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