Cash Game Info on cash games (1 Viewer)

[Oryx]

Hey all, new here. I have only played tournament format so far but I'm trying to understand more about how cash games work. I don't really understand the nuances of it as compared to tournament style. What are the major differences in play style and general format differences. Thanks all!

 

[jja412]

Hey all, new here. I have only played tournament format so far but I'm trying to understand more about how cash games work. I don't really understand the nuances of it as compared to tournament style. What are the major differences in play style and general format differences. Thanks all!

The biggest thing is no escalating blinds, and the ability to rebuy as often as you like. So each hand is nearly it's own game.
No need to hang around or leave if you bust, just buy in again. No escalating blinds so less "forced" actions (as compared to the end of a tournament.)

 

[Rhodeman77]

In general cash games play more like the first couple levels of a tournament where stacks are all much deeper compared to the blinds. Unless a player gets short stacked and doesn’t rebuy/add-on there will not the all-in preflop action that is common with late stage tournament play.

 

[Oryx]

The biggest thing is no escalating blinds, and the ability to rebuy as often as you like. So each hand is nearly it's own game.
No need to hang around or leave if you bust, just buy in again. No escalating blinds so less "forced" actions (as compared to the end of a tournament.)

So is it acceptable to just up and leave and take your cash with you if the evening starts to go late?

 

[SlowPokeTony]

So is it acceptable to just up and leave and take your cash with you if the evening starts to go late?

You have to at some point otherwise the game would never end

 

[Eriks]

So is it acceptable to just up and leave and take your cash with you if the evening starts to go late?

It’s not against the rules but it would be considered poor etiquette to hit and run. That is, to win a large pot and leave the table with your winnings. Even if you played a good amount of time at the table, if you’re up in the game, giving some notice that you plan to leave soon is generally a good idea.

 

[Poker Zombie]

In tournament all-in situations, all players must show their hands once action (betting) is complete. In cash games, players do not need to show. IMO, it's one of the aspects that make tournaments better.

In cash games, players may arrive late, buy in and play. No big deal. In a tournament, late starts (especially one arriving 2-3 hours late) are a problem (or unplayable). Same with leaving early. Cash out and go. However, there is a rule preventing players from cashing out with a big stack and then buyiung back in shortly thereafter for less.

Leaving early after winning a big hand is also a faux-pas, known as a "hit-and-go". No rule preventing it, but frequent hit-and-go's and you may not want to invite that guy again.

Obviously, the escalating blinds are a thing you don't see in cash games. Therefore, the chips needed are also different. Tournaments need more small denomination chips, and fewer and fewer of the larger denominations. Cash games need a few "blinds" chips, lots of "workhorse" chips, and then just a few "rebuy" chips (actual amounts vary by play styles).

 

[SeanGecko]

The best advice I would give is go watch the cash games on YouTube. High Stakes Poker would be great way to start they have the first episode on there. I used the format for my game and we have been going strong since 2002 or so. It improved the game when we found out about HSP in like 2006.

 

[jja412]

So is it acceptable to just up and leave and take your cash with you if the evening starts to go late?

Yes, it is acceptable within the rules. But sometimes your fellow players won't appreciate it much.

 

[Oryx]

In tournament all-in situations, all players must show their hands once action (betting) is complete. In cash games, players do not need to show. IMO, it's one of the aspects that make tournaments better.

In cash games, players may arrive late, buy in and play. No big deal. In a tournament, late starts (especially one arriving 2-3 hours late) are a problem (or unplayable). Same with leaving early. Cash out and go. However, there is a rule preventing players from cashing out with a big stack and then buyiung back in shortly thereafter for less.

Leaving early after winning a big hand is also a faux-pas, known as a "hit-and-go". No rule preventing it, but frequent hit-and-go's and you may not want to invite that guy again.

Obviously, the escalating blinds are a thing you don't see in cash games. Therefore, the chips needed are also different. Tournaments need more small denomination chips, and fewer and fewer of the larger denominations. Cash games need a few "blinds" chips, lots of "workhorse" chips, and then just a few "rebuy" chips (actual amounts vary by play styles).

Hey thanks this was very helpful! I appreciate it

The best advice I would give is go watch the cash games on YouTube. High Stakes Poker would be great way to start they have the first episode on there. I used the format for my game and we have been going strong since 2002 or so. It improved the game when we found out about HSP in like 2006.

Thanks for the video suggestion I'll definitely take a look, I appreciate the response!

 

[trigs]

Welcome to the forum @Oryx. Where in Ontario are you?

Just to add a little to the comments above:

Tournaments are all about survival since the biggest payouts are at the top and min. cashing a few here and there isn't a good enough return on investment. If you aren't outright winning or at least finishing very close to the top at least some of the time, you will be a losing tournament player. Therefore, the way certain hands are played can dramatically vary compared to cash games. For example, it could make sense to fold AA preflop to no action in a tournament, where that would just be silly to do in a cash game. Also, tournament poker lends itself to the feeling of prolonged losing. Even good tournament players can miss out on cashing in a lot of tournaments before finally binking one again.

Since you can rebuy or addon in a cash game, each hand kind of exists on its own more than in a tournament. Cash games tend to have deeper stacks in general (again because of the rebuys/addons), and deep stack poker requires a lot more skill post flop compared to short stack play. This is because with a short stack, you have less possible decisions to make (e.g. with 10BBs you are likely shoving if you get a good hand; with 20BBs or less, you are looking at reraise shoving over a preflop raise, etc.). When everyone in the hand is 100BBs deep or more, you can't just shove all in to a 3x preflop raise (well, you can, but I wouldn't recommend it). With deeper stacks, things like set mining comes into play more and bluffing comes into play a lot more because you have the chips to bluff with and can always add more after the hand. There's a reason why so many new and amateur poker players prefer tournaments over cash games

IMHO, cash games are way more fun and require more skill (especially post flop) compared to tournaments.

 

[grebe]

It’s not against the rules but it would be considered poor etiquette to hit and run. That is, to win a large pot and leave the table with your winnings. Even if you played a good amount of time at the table, if you’re up in the game, giving some notice that you plan to leave soon is generally a good idea.

At a home game....i.e. someone's house, remember you are a guest at their house. Poker may be the reason you are there, but you were invited there by the host. Act like that, and remember you were given a seat at this table, and if you leave, it may cause a dynamic shift. Be a good guest in all ways, including letting them know how long you intend to play.

At a casino, you can play for 10 hours or 30 minutes, you owe nobody anything.

 

[Oryx]

At a home game....i.e. someone's house, remember you are a guest at their house. Poker may be the reason you are there, but you were invited there by the host. Act like that, and remember you were given a seat at this table, and if you leave, it may cause a dynamic shift. Be a good guest in all ways, including letting them know how long you intend to play.

At a casino, you can play for 10 hours or 30 minutes, you owe nobody anything.

Yeah makes sense, I could have phrased my second question a little better. How do most cash games end? Are they time limited rather than play until there is one winner?

 

[Eriks]

Yeah makes sense, I could have phrased my second question a little better. How do most cash games end? Are they time limited rather than play until there is one winner?

It’s a little like asking when a party at someone’s house will end. Usually, there’s not a set time beforehand but it’ll work itself out naturally. Same with a cashgame. But yes, unlike a tournament, play does not go on until there is one winner since everyone can theoretically buy in an unlimited number of times

 

[Coyote]

Yeah makes sense, I could have phrased my second question a little better. How do most cash games end? Are they time limited rather than play until there is one winner?

In cash games there can be no "final" winner or champion.
That's the reason tournaments were invented on the first place: For advertising / communication purposes, so there could be the equivalent of a "world champion".
The original and true game has been cash; tournament is very bad and luck-based poker at the later, very short-stacked stages because of the ever-raising blinds, where it's just an on/off switch (fold or all-in).
IMHO, tournaments' only use among friends is to guarantee a maximum loss, which cannot be done in cash games.

About your crucial question: A good host always sets a minimum time, before which no winning player can leave; and, less importantly, an estimated finishing time (it's his home after all).
Losing players can of course leave anytime.

 

[detroitdad]

At a home game....i.e. someone's house, remember you are a guest at their house. Poker may be the reason you are there, but you were invited there by the host. Act like that, and remember you were given a seat at this table, and if you leave, it may cause a dynamic shift. Be a good guest in all ways, including letting them know how long you intend to play.

At a casino, you can play for 10 hours or 30 minutes, you owe nobody anything.

THIS^^^^^^

There are times when I'll have to leave at 10 or 11. I always let the host know when I'm accepting the invite. This allows them to find someone else that may play the entire evening.

 

[detroitdad]

No rule preventing it, but frequent hit-and-go's

Actually it only takes once at my house for you to never get invited back. Our MI group is awesome so this is a non issue.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Yeah makes sense, I could have phrased my second question a little better. How do most cash games end? Are they time limited rather than play until there is one winner?

Since I formed my group with multi-table tournaments, we stuck with the tournament system of running a clock to schedule breaks. It allows people to interact with players at different tables, change tables (our cash games have different stakes at each table), and get food. It also makes cashing out easy for the host as people cash out on breaks. Much like a party (mentioned above) people tend to leave around the same time they see others leave. Because we use the tournament clock, most people leave around the time the game would end if it were a tournament.

 

[detroitdad]

Yeah makes sense, I could have phrased my second question a little better. How do most cash games end? Are they time limited rather than play until there is one winner?

I only host one table, 8 player cash games. Usually a few will leave around midnight. The last two times that I hosted we were still five handed at 230 in the morning. I will announce one more orbit, then throw everyone out.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Actually it only takes once at my house for you to never get invited back. Our MI group is awesome so this is a non issue.

Like you, I frequently have to cut-out early because I work atypical hours. I too let the host know ahead of the event so they can find a full-night player instead. I also announce "last orbit" and "last hand" to the table before I leave.

However, I still feel like crud if I scoop a monster and then leave, or pull a big pot and then announce last orbit. It is exacerbated when players bemoan my leaving.

I'd hate to lose my invite because of whiny players, but it is what it is.

 

[detroitdad]

However, I still feel like crud if I scoop a monster and then leave, or pull a big pot and then announce last orbit. It is exacerbated when players bemoan my leaving.

I'll try to announce it to the table. My priority is letting the host know. If I forget to announce it to the table (if were at different tables) then I don't worry about it. I'm sure the same is with you, but my rep at a poker game is solid, and everyone knows that we don't hit and run.

If its a player that I don't know well, and they bitch about the small sample size of seeing me leave early, well they can fuck right off lol.........in a nice way of course .

 

[upNdown]

Cash games are simpler than tournaments because they require half the skill set. But, to succeed in a cash game,
1) you need to have deep pockets - be ready and eager to rebuy 3-4 times
2) you have to really know how to use that stack - it’s no different than in a tournament, it’s just necessary a lot more often.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

All good info above. The thing that I like about cash games specifically is that it allows for you to change up your play style, and as others have said, treat things on a hand-by-hand basis without needing to worry about the hands that follow.

It's probably a byproduct of the fact that I am a pretty tight tournament player and I enjoy being able to do things in cash games that my playing style will not allow in tournaments (i.e. if I'm on the button in a cash game and look down at something like , I'm almost never folding, maybe even 3-betting depending on how the action goes, whereas in a tournament, I'm probably folding that hand to a pre-flop raise most of the time).

Or if I hold a suited hand and I flop a huge flush draw, I'm able to play it much more aggressively, knowing that if I get it all-in, I can either run it out a few times, or if I lose, just add on again and my night's not over.

 

[detroitdad]

Cash games are simpler than tournaments because they require half the skill set.

I don't understand that statement whatsoever. It takes a completely different skill set, but saying "half" is silly.

 

[upNdown]

I don't understand that statement whatsoever. It takes a completely different skill set, but saying "half" is silly.

A tournament is just a cash game with a clock and a bunch of other considerations.
I don't think there are any skills you need in a NLHE cash game that you don't need in a tournament.
But there are a whole lot of skills you need in a tournamnet that you don't need in a cash game.

Edit - I'm not saying tournament players are better - to the contrary, I'll often get smashed in cash games by guys who I'll beat in tournaments in the long run (not talking about variance here) because even though they're better at NLHE than me, they haven't developed that other half set of skills required for tournament success.

 

[trigs]

A good host always sets a minimum time, before which no winning player can leave...

I don't know if I agree with this. I don't set a minimum time when I host. Anything can happen in a person's life. If they get a call and have to leave, I'm not forcing them to stay if they are still winning. Obviously, if they often or always "get a call" when they are winning, I'm probably not inviting them back, but I'm still not setting a specific minimum time that players have to play.

 

[SeanGecko]

Since one of us (ME) has to cash the guy out and that involves a second person being out of the game we usually have someone "CALL A ROUND" that way it can also coincide with a food/bathroom/smoke break

 

[trigs]

EDIT: I take it back. I don't want to start this debate lol.

 

[detroitdad]

I don't know if I agree with this. I don't set a minimum time when I host. Anything can happen in a person's life. If they get a call and have to leave, I'm not forcing them to stay if they are still winning. Obviously, if they often or always "get a call" when they are winning, I'm probably not inviting them back, but I'm still not setting a specific minimum time that players have to play.

I've never set a minimum time. I will never set a minimum time. I couldn't disagree more with him.

A tournament is just a cash game with a clock and a bunch of other considerations.
I don't think there are any skills you need in a NLHE cash game that you don't need in a tournament.
But there are a whole lot of skills you need in a tournamnet that you don't need in a cash game.

Edit - I'm not saying tournament players are better - to the contrary, I'll often get smashed in cash games by guys who I'll beat in tournaments in the long run (not talking about variance here) because even though they're better at NLHE than me, they haven't developed that other half set of skills required for tournament success.

My opinions differ, but that's fine.

 

[Poker Zombie]

However, I do think that the more difficult skills to learn and master in poker are needed more in cash games than in tournaments due to the deeper stack sizes.

Easily fixed by running deepstack tournaments.

But lets keep this on the OP of what is different, not which requires more skill.

...though in casino play, I am a losing tournament player, and a winning cash game player. The margins aren't even close.