Tourney Help devising an end of year event? (1 Viewer)

[Darson]

My regular monthly game is a single table tourney where we play for the pot. Most of the time it's winner takes all but occasionally we have up to 10 players and we pay out 2nd place (e.g. 20% for 2nd). Typically there are lots of rebuys so the pot tends to be pretty decent (e.g. the last 4-player game had a pot of 9 buy-ins).

What I would like to do is to devise some kind of end of year event. Some ideas:

• The starting stacks are determined by your finishing place in previous events (not sure how to do this) - this could be used to benefit or handicap the winning players.
• Starting stacks are determined by the number of games you attend
• I take one buy-in from each month's event and make it a bonus for the end of year event

Any other ideas?

I'm struggling with this as sometimes we'll only have 4 players so I feel that taking a buy-in may be a bit too much. Maybe I only rake when there are more than 6 players? Or maybe I rake a % rounded down to the nearest buy-in?

Also, some people can play more often than others so by virtue of their availability, they'll have an advantage/disadvantage - maybe this is a good thing?

I would love to collect statistics but I think the best I can do is to tally the finishing position of each player. There is a lot of drinking so that's not conducive to record keeping! And if I'm not there, it's likely there will be nothing recorded other than who won. Any ideas greatly appreciated!

 

[TexRex]

If you don't have the records, don't start from the past. Develop a plan starting the next game and go from there.

There are ways of doing easy record keeping. Failure to keep accurate records is a recipe for having very unhappy people at the end.

What is the real purpose of the year end event? Evaluate that carefully. Rather than discuss how others do it, I'd let them tell you how they do it and how it works. I think there are plenty of workable ideas. Here is how we do it, but it is just one of many possible formats.

We do a "Main Event" that is open to everyone. The buy-in is 2x the regular event, and it includes dinner. The game is scheduled for 6 hours instead of 4. Everyone starts equal. Our players really like that special event. Some come only for that event, probably because our other games are deemed to small for them. There is always talk about limiting it to players who have come to other events. Opinions are split, but I'd like for that game to help recruit players for our other events. I'm not sure it's been successful at that, but this year could be different.

I'd consider polling your players. You might even start a game with a discussion on the subject before alcohol impairs their thinking too much, and make sure to write it down. You might be surprised at what they come up with and it wouild help them get excited about it if they had some say in it. Some like varying chip stacks at that last game, and some hate it. Coming up with something like that in a group of players where many don't like it will not work well. The same could be said about any format. Getting your players to agree on a format could increase attendance, but coming up with something that runs some players off won't help.

 

[timinater]

Here's how we do it.

In short, we play 8 prelim games, and points are awarded based on your finish. The final table is a freeroll ($10 of the $50 buy-in goes to the final table pool). The chips are distributed based on your points. The average stack will be 20,000 and your stack is based on your points relative to the average number of points.

Points
Points that go towards final table chip stacks are awarded based on the number of players, and your finish. Points are awarded equal to your finish position with exceptions for those that cash, and the first three eliminated. Ex: 4th player eliminated receives 4 points, 5th player eliminated receives 5, etc. The players that finish in the money receive a “cash bonus”:

• 10 or less players 1st, 2nd and 3rd receive "Cash Bonus" of 6, 4 and 2 points
• 11 or more players 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th receive "Cash Bonus" of 8, 6, 4 and 2 points
• Example:
  • 1st -10 + 6 = 16 2nd - 9 + 4 = 13 3rd - 8 + 2 = 10 4th - 7 5th - 6 6th - 5 7th - 4 8th - 3 9th - 3 10th - 3

Final Table
The Final Table will take place at a predetermined time. At the Host’s discretion the Final Table may be rescheduled, or the next season start before the Final Table for the previous season is played.

• Must play in a minimum of three preliminary games to qualify for final table.
• Chips are distributed based on points earned for preliminary game finishes.
• Average chip stack will be 20,000. Ex: If the average point total is 50, the point multiplier would be established at 1 point = 400 chips. If you finished the season with 37 points, you would receive 14,800 chips to start the final table. The multiplier will be finalized at the end of the eight preliminary tournaments.
• There is no maximum number of players who can qualify for the final

Everything else: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sunday-night-poker-season-17.35689/#post-655418

 

[TexRex]

Here are some additional thoughts. While there might be several formats for year-end tournaments, it seems to me there are two basic structures. I’ll label them the Tournament of Champions (ToC) and the Classic (terminology stolen from Zombie). We call our Classic the Main Event (ME) and I’ll use that term here.

In a ToC, you are trying to be exclusive about who comes. Some will use staggered chip stacks, awarding those who scored the most, however that is done, with larger chip stacks, though that doesn’t have to be done. If you have people who aren’t eligible for the ToC paying for it, especially if they are paying a lot for it, I think eventually you will have people dropping out.

One variation is the ToC where to come you have to have won a tournament. That’s just a different version of the ToC.

A ToC either uses staggered chip stacks, based on some criterion, or everyone gets the same stack. A lot of groups like the ToC. While I’m not one of those people, there is certainly nothing wrong with them as long as the criteria for making it are clear and good records are kept. Keep in mind as the host it is possible that you will find yourself hosting an event for which you don’t qualify. That possibility is one reason I didn’t choose that format. I’m limited on how many games I can host in a year, and I didn’t want one of those to be an event I could not play in.

One disadvantage of a ToC is that once players can no longer qualify for the ToC, they may drop out. Why should they keep paying for something they cannot possibly benefit from.

In an ME format, you aren’t trying to be exclusive, but inclusive. Players have paid all year toward the ME in hopes they will all play. When we first started, the ME was only open to our members. Everyone pays exactly the same to get in, and everyone gets exactly the same chip stack. You could use staggered chip stacks in the ME format.

Another ME format is a truly open event where players who didn’t attend another game can play. We’ve done it that way most years. It is easier to fill up because the pool of possible attendees is much bigger.

No particular format is right or wrong. It’s a matter of taste and what you are trying to accomplish. If you are going to try to keep interest high, the ME type format works better to do that since at no point is anyone excluded, or at least they are not excluded if they’ve attended a game. The minimum number of games attended could still be used.

The reason I decided on the ME format is that when I first put our league together I let people vote on which they preferred. The Main Event won by 3-2. Since every group of players is different, one good reason to poll players is you may find that you want a ToC, but a majority of your players hate it. Implementing something your players don't like could destroy your game. Polls don't have to be formal, but I personally like a formal poll where you can measure the results and you know everyone was asked exactly the same questions.

I look forward to hearing how this develops for you.

 

[BGinGA]

I've ran just about every type of 'season-ending-event' format possible (elective participation, qualifying participation-only, equal-stacks, earned-bonus-chips, etc.); most of those variants have already been covered above. But probably the most fondly remembered by players were those league seasons that were capped by a free-roll seeded heads-up ladder tournament.

In keeping the tournament duration in line with the rest of the season's prior events (each about 4.5 hours long), it was designed as a best-of-three format (must win two heads-up matches against a single opponent to advance), and being a ladder format, the top six regular season finishers each had a shot of winning it all. However, the season champion was guaranteed a spot in the Final, and the 2nd place finisher was guaranteed a spot in the Semi-Final:

Round 1
1a - 6th place finisher plays 3rd place finisher
1b - 5th place finisher plays 4th place finisher

Round 2
1a winner plays 1b winner

Semi-Final
2nd place finisher plays Round 2 winner

Final
1st place finisher plays Semi-Final winner

The 1st and 2nd place finishers dealt in Round 1 for the other players, and one (or more) of the three first round losers dealt the remaining rounds. This allowed the players to concentrate on the game, and not have to self-deal.

Each heads-up match was geared to last a maximum of 30 minutes (the average round length was about an hour or so), so the maximum time the tournament typically took was a little over 4 hours (plus breaks) for the four rounds.


If so inclined, one could also run a year-end straight 16-player seeded elimination bracket tournament (16 v 1, 15 v 2, etc.) which would also take the same amount of time (four rounds), but not compensate the season standing leaders with a significant advantage (other than being seeded vs theoretically weaker players). It would, however, require that eight simultaneous heads-up matches be able to be accommodated with player space (most oval tables can easily handle three simultaneous matches,, but four is usually pushing it), and at least the first round of heads-up matches would all be self-dealt. We have occasionally ran non-league heads-up tournaments in this fashion.

 

[CraigT78]

Round 1
1a - 6th place finisher plays 3rd place finisher
1b - 5th place finisher plays 4th place finisher

Round 2
1a winner plays 1b winner

Semi-Final
2nd place finisher plays Round 2 winner

Final
1st place finisher plays Semi-Final winner

So each round is a best of 3?

Structure? Starting stacks?

 

[BGinGA]

So each round is a best of 3?

Yes.

Structure? Starting stacks?

I've posted it here somewhere before. We used two different formats and starting stacks, since that league started out as a T5-base and later went to T25-base stacks. But both ladder events were 6-minute levels with an average increase of around 40%, and down to 20 total big blinds in play by L6.

 

[BGinGA]

Structure? Starting stacks?

I've posted it here somewhere before.

Found it:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...tructure-t1-t5-or-t25-base.26990/#post-501987

 

[cwebb]

I organized such year end tournaments for many years.

We raked 10% into the jackpot. We had something from 4-10 players for every SNG. SNG because sometimes we managed more than one in an evening.

We made a points chart, basically saying everyone gets points but the last two places. Why 0 for the last two? To encourage some more action without an undue penalty if you ran KK into AA or anything. (With an exception for 4player SNGs.)
So if there were fewer players we managed more SNGs and ended up giving out a somewhat steady number of points every poker night.

Players	10	9	8	7	6	5	4
#1	18	15	12	10	7	5	4
#2	12	10	8	6	4	2	2
#3	10	8	6	4	2	1	1
#4	8	6	4	2	1	0	0
#5	6	4	2	1	0	0
#6	4	2	1	0	0
#7	2	1	0	0
#8	1	0	0
#9+10	0	0

We had starting stacks of 5k with blinds starting at 25/50. Every point won equalled 100 chips on top for the final tournament. So if you played more, and payed more rake you got more points and a higher starting stack and thus a better shot at winning the big one.
So it was less likely someone just payed for one SNG only to be eligible and win the big pot at the end. Also it gave the tournament more playing time and weight due to deeper stacks. We kept the blind levels the same.

We didn't play too often, so for example one year the player with the most points had 71, which meant close to 2,5x the normal starting stack. The last one had 22 points, so 1,5x the normal starting stack.

This worked out well for us, so maybe it's a bit of inspiration for you.

 

[Darson]

Some great ideas here, thank you. I do like @BGinGA 's head's up elimination heads-up thing - it's different and sounds like a lot of fun.

First game of the year is Friday so I'll ask around and see. I'll suggest a rake of 1 buy-in from the pot for the end of year event, the format of which we can refine nearer the time.

 

[BGinGA]

Fwiw -- for most league/series events that have a 'grand finale' of some type, I typically withhold a portion of each individual entry during the season which generates a total payout amount for the finale event that is roughly equal to that of each season event..... except that it's a freeroll with no cost to enter. So monetarily, it's just one more event on the calendar (although typically longer and harder to win), but your 'entry fee' is paid by your season-long performance instead of cash.

It keeps the individual event rake relativly low, doesn't overburden or overtax low-turnout events (since a percentage is taken instead of a fixed amount), and doesn't inflate the finale payout to a huge proportion if not everyone who contributed cannot qualify to compete for a slice of that pie. For our group, it seems to be the right combination of options.

 

[pippen33]

Good afternoon,

First time poster.

In August, a group of friends and I started a year long league. We play 11 "prelim" tourneys (once a month that started in August 2018 and runs through June 2019) and the 12th will be The Main Event (July 2019).

The smallest tourney so far has been 12 guys and the largest was 16. Once we join up at one table for the night (when down to the final 9) we start a cash game at the 2nd table.

We use a point system and the top 9 at the end of the 11 tourneys make the Final Table. We count the best 8 scores of the 11 tourneys which allows players to miss 3 tourneys for vacations/etc and you must play 6 tourneys to qualify for the final.

We have a buy in of $100. $70 goes to that night's prize pool and $30 is held for the the final tourney.

The top points earner at the end of the "season" gets $500 and the rest is paid out to the top 3 at the final tourney (we might be leaning at top 4, TBD).

We are on pace to pay out $500 to the points leader and have $4,000 in prize money for the final table.

Your starting stack at the Main Event will be weighted toward your season point total. $1,000 chips for each point. EX: If 1st finishes with 802 points they start with 802,000 and if 7th has 409 points, they start with 409,000.

Final table structure hasn't been created yet but we are having 9th place begin with 50 big blinds. You will be the shortest stack but have time to maneuver in the first few levels (25 mins each).

Points are distributed as follows:

11 tourneys August 2018 - June 2019.

1st - 100 PLUS (3x number of players)
2nd - 75 PLUS (2x number of players)
3rd - 60 PLUS (number of players)
4th - 50
5th - 40
6th - 30
7th - 20
8th - 10
9th - 7
2 points for any finisher 10th or worse

It seems to be working pretty well so far. We'll certainly make some tweaks before starting season 2 in August but we are very happy how things have worked out so far.

Currently I'm in 3rd place. I'd be fine if I stayed there till July!

I look forward to reading and posting more.

Cheers