Cash Game Heads up PLO, extra card or position?

Heads up PLO, would you rather have an extra card or the Button every hand?

  • Give me the 5th card!

  • Position, it is everything!!!


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Rhodeman77

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I am going to be playing a heads up PLO cash game soon. I have done this before and usually make an offer of either a 5th card or having the button every hand.

Clarification: you get one, the other person gets the other. Which do you find more valuable.

Which would you choose if you had the option and why?
 
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Taghkanic

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I voted position without realizing it was heads up. Was envisioning full ring. Heads up I think I’d take the 5th card. (Vote changed.) The value of the extra card would be much greater against one opponent than multiple opponents. In the limpy live PLO games I play, there is seldom fewer than 3-4 players going to the flop, often more... which I expect would diluted the power of a fifth hope card. Still, a close call.
 

WedgeRock

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I am going to be playing a heads up PLO cash game soon. I have done this before and usually make an offer of either a 5th card or having the button every hand.
You offer and they can decline. But if they accept, they choose which advantage they want and you get the other?
 

Rhodeman77

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You offer and they can decline. But if they accept, they choose which advantage they want and you get the other?

I worded the poll as to not show which I prefer. I have a preference all the way and when I discuss it as an option I offer it the way I want.
 

grebe

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As always, I voted unpopular. But I hope that I am right by expert standards.
 

Hornet

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I worded the poll as to not show which I prefer. I have a preference all the way and when I discuss it as an option I offer it the way I want.
I think we are asking what the rules are, not what your preference is. In other words, when I pick one, you get the other? Or when I pick one, you get no offsetting advantage?
 

redwine

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to be clear, I get to pick one, and then you do not get the other one, correct?

I think it may depend on the opponent and stack depth (I know, cop-out answer), but generally if offered I would take position.

I just can’t imagine playing profitably while being oop every hand in deep stack plo. 3betting preflop would become difficult and getting value postflop even more.
 

Rhodeman77

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I think we are asking what the rules are, not what your preference is. In other words, when I pick one, you get the other? Or when I pick one, you get no offsetting advantage?

One person gets 5 cards and the other person gets the button. It is not a handicap because I’m a better player that I give up. Just a twist on the game.
 

redwine

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In that case:

if buyins are capped: I pick 5cards, 3bet every hand I’m playing to reduce spr and thus value of position while going to every flop with massive card advantage. Unless button limps then just check and get to showdown.

if uncapped buyins I think I still prefer button.
 

WedgeRock

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I worded the poll as to not show which I prefer. I have a preference all the way and when I discuss it as an option I offer it the way I want.
So you either say, "I'll give you the button every time but I get an extra card," or "you get an extra card but I get the button every time," depending on what your preference is. Correct?
 

Rhodeman77

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So you either say, "I'll give you the button every time but I get an extra card," or "you get an extra card but I get the button every time," depending on what your preference is. Correct?
Exactly
 

Rhodeman77

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to be clear, I get to pick one, and then you do not get the other one, correct?

I think it may depend on the opponent and stack depth (I know, cop-out answer), but generally if offered I would take position.

I just can’t imagine playing profitably while being oop every hand in deep stack plo. 3betting preflop would become difficult and getting value postflop even more.

It is at least 200 BB deep.
 

mipevi

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I voted 5 cards, simply because you have 10 combinations you can use to make your hand vs. the 6 combos from having 4 cards and you are going to have nut blockers more often. You can rep more hands, so post I'd play more aggro than usual. Of course the deeper it gets, the more position will matter, but I also feel like the correct answer depends on villain's style of play. Sounds like fun! :D
 

WedgeRock

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I voted 5 cards, simply because you have 10 combinations you can use to make your hand vs. the 6 combos from having 4 cards and you are going to have nut blockers more often. You can rep more hands, so post I'd play more aggro than usual. Of course the deeper it gets, the more position will matter, but I also feel like the correct answer depends on villain's style of play. Sounds like fun! :D

Also, five cards gets position preflop.

I don't think there is a right answer. The correct answer depends on your style and your opponent's style.

One person gets 5 cards and the other person gets the button. It is not a handicap because I’m a better player that I give up. Just a twist on the game.

For what it's worth, I think I would present the option that I don't want. When they decline, then I would offer them the opposite proposition (the one I wanted).
 

Rhodeman77

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5 cards does get position preflop, but the button also only has to put in 1/2 as much money and if they have a complete trash hand can open fold. It shouldn’t happen often, but trips, hands with no suite and big gaps can be folded practically for free.
 

Hornet

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I am going with the 5th card every time. Position is relative and HU it is easier to overcome against decent but not great players, particularly if I am playing with an extra card in my hand. Also, in my experience with HU, hands often go to showdown and having that extra card can be critical at that point.
 

Anthony Martino

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5th card. While position is important, I feel the increased hand strength and combos you can make with 25% more cards in your hand to be the greater advantage in a headsup scenerio
 

upNdown

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5 cards does get position preflop, but the button also only has to put in 1/2 as much money and if they have a complete trash hand can open fold. It shouldn’t happen often, but trips, hands with no suite and big gaps can be folded practically for free.
I'm no PLO expert or a heads up expert, but trips might be worth playing, heads up. Certainly high trips.
 

upNdown

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Oh and I vote extra card. You're not playing to the nuts, heads up - it's much more about balls and guile. Ideally you're both hammering each other that way, in and out of position. Give me the card advantage!
 

Rhodeman77

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We are assuming equal skill level for the most part. But what if you feel you have a pretty big skill advantage against your opponent?

Does getting to act last become more valuable to you? Villain has to bluff river more or give up on hands more often.

When Villain hits his draws he has to bet into Button or risk not getting value and getting drawn out on still thus making it easier to fold when Button is behind.

Button should lose more small pots but should be able to more than make it up in the big pots.
 

Hornet

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We are assuming equal skill level for the most part. But what if you feel you have a pretty big skill advantage against your opponent?

Does getting to act last become more valuable to you? Villain has to bluff river more or give up on hands more often.

When Villain hits his draws he has to bet into Button or risk not getting value and getting drawn out on still thus making it easier to fold when Button is behind.

Button should lose more small pots but should be able to more than make it up in the big pots.
If I think I have a sizable skill advantage over my opponent and stacks are deep, I’ll take position.

So Adam, let’s play heads up, and I’ll take the extra card ...
 

Rhodeman77

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If I think I have a sizable skill advantage over my opponent and stacks are deep, I’ll take position.

So Adam, let’s play heads up, and I’ll take the extra card ...

You are the type of player I usually make the offer to! Aggressive players that have a decent amount of bluff in them.

It usually works well with my small ball, trapping approach with the occasional drop the hammer with huge draws and made hand mix.
 

trigs

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Definitely 5 cards and it's not even close. Position is obviously important but extra card is huge advantage. Also, heads up is a completely different beast in its own.
 

FDLmold

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The extra card almost doubles the size of our hand, but doesn’t seem like it does. I would take that.
 

Rhodeman77

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The extra card almost doubles the size of our hand, but doesn’t seem like it does. I would take that.

10 possible hand combinations vs 6 but how many times will they actually dramatically improve the value of the hand? You’ll end up with 3 of the same suite more often a weak pocket pair more etc. you aren’t going to just get doubled suited 5 card run downs every hand.
 

Hornet

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You are the type of player I usually make the offer to! Aggressive players that have a decent amount of bluff in them.

It usually works well with my small ball, trapping approach with the occasional drop the hammer with huge draws and made hand mix.
Challenge accepted. Game tonight and I’ll make a seat for you. HU at the end of the night!
 
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