Have we finally reached market saturation?? (5 Viewers)

[Jacks]

Just my own observation.

It’s funny, but I also sold stuff for premium pricing, and know of other large recent transactions (5 figures) nothing to do with me that have recently transpired. But as @BarrieJ3 pointed out a lot of this happens privately.

 

[davislane]

sorry.. there will not be a part 2 to the Faro Dunes chips. All versions were fully disclosed at the initial release. Sold thru about 75% of the inventory in the 3 months prior to summer. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if I were 'forced' to keep the remaining ~15k chips. Could host a great meet-up!

did you just reveal the total order size without revealing the total order size.

 

[TheChipVault]

did you just reveal the total order size without revealing the total order size.

~

 

[chippitydoodah]

sorry.. there will not be a part 2 to the Faro Dunes chips. All versions were fully disclosed at the initial release. Sold thru about 75% of the inventory in the 3 months prior to summer. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if I were 'forced' to keep the remaining ~15k chips. Could host a great meet-up!

 

[BarrieJ3]

But as @BarrieJ3 pointed out a lot of this happens privately.

It's too bad the other site blows.

This is NOT anti PCF sentiment - but when a place grows consistently, and things like the marketplace becoming meaningless, and administration/moderation is impossible due to size, and your biggest buyers/sellers have all stopped because it's not worth it anymore - that's when a small form of the market can be created and excel!

It's pretty much how second movers are created and market share gets diluted. For me right now, I probably have my fingers in 20+ sets despite only having 2 at my house - whether it's fror, partial ownership with another chipper, a chip set I own sitting at someone else's house for felt time, etc. It would be fantastic if there was a place where like minded folk could particpate together without it having to all be PMs and text messages. Hell, it could even be a place on PCF if you could create your own threads with limited viewers/membership/etc. (what I REALLY hoped meetup threads would be, there's not a place here where you can share messages with a group of 30 folks and allow for interaction).

But yeah, public is dead. Private is everything. There is absolutely definite space for a secondary/supportive market. Danny created his out of who the hell knows what reasoning, and pretty much killed the idea of anyone else doing it and doing it well for now.

Oh well. We'll see where we're at in 10 years. I'm so fricken stoked to see my retirement truly in sight - if I temper my expectations I could be there with just another $20ish thousand in purchases.

 

[doublebooyah85]

It's too bad the other site blows.

This is NOT anti PCF sentiment - but when a place grows consistently, and things like the marketplace becoming meaningless, and administration/moderation is impossible due to size, and your biggest buyers/sellers have all stopped because it's not worth it anymore - that's when a small form of the market can be created and excel!

It's pretty much how second movers are created and market share gets diluted. For me right now, I probably have my fingers in 20+ sets despite only having 2 at my house - whether it's fror, partial ownership with another chipper, a chip set I own sitting at someone else's house for felt time, etc. It would be fantastic if there was a place where like minded folk could particpate together without it having to all be PMs and text messages. Hell, it could even be a place on PCF if you could create your own threads with limited viewers/membership/etc. (what I REALLY hoped meetup threads would be, there's not a place here where you can share messages with a group of 30 folks and allow for interaction).

But yeah, public is dead. Private is everything. There is absolutely definite space for a secondary/supportive market. Danny created his out of who the hell knows what reasoning, and pretty much killed the idea of anyone else doing it and doing it well for now.

Oh well. We'll see where we're at in 10 years. I'm so fricken stoked to see my retirement truly in sight - if I temper my expectations I could be there with just another $20ish thousand in purchases.

Public isn’t dead. I just bought a Sundance set via dibs a few weeks ago and a new member just landed a goated TRK set. And if you kept your eyes on eBay there was wsop rio chips.

 

[TheChipVault]

Public isn’t dead. I just bought a Sundance set via dibs a few weeks ago and a new member just landed a goated TRK set. And if you kept your eyes on eBay there was wsop rio chips.

great pick up on that Sundance set... I would have been a buyer on that one.

 

[upNdown]

It's too bad the other site blows.

This is NOT anti PCF sentiment - but when a place grows consistently, and things like the marketplace becoming meaningless, and administration/moderation is impossible due to size, and your biggest buyers/sellers have all stopped because it's not worth it anymore - that's when a small form of the market can be created and excel!

It's pretty much how second movers are created and market share gets diluted. For me right now, I probably have my fingers in 20+ sets despite only having 2 at my house - whether it's fror, partial ownership with another chipper, a chip set I own sitting at someone else's house for felt time, etc. It would be fantastic if there was a place where like minded folk could particpate together without it having to all be PMs and text messages. Hell, it could even be a place on PCF if you could create your own threads with limited viewers/membership/etc. (what I REALLY hoped meetup threads would be, there's not a place here where you can share messages with a group of 30 folks and allow for interaction).

But yeah, public is dead. Private is everything. There is absolutely definite space for a secondary/supportive market. Danny created his out of who the hell knows what reasoning, and pretty much killed the idea of anyone else doing it and doing it well for now.

Oh well. We'll see where we're at in 10 years. I'm so fricken stoked to see my retirement truly in sight - if I temper my expectations I could be there with just another $20ish thousand in purchases.

Public is dead. All good stuff is sold privately. I’ve heard it for a while and I can neither confirm nor deny, because nobody’s been offering me the private deals. I don’t know if you need the right friends, of a lot of money, or just be overly nice or what. But I’ve never come close to those private inner circles. I’m just glad I have a set that I love, that can play for the next 30 years. Because apparently the good stuff isn’t available.

 

[upNdown]

Public is dead. All good stuff is sold privately. I’ve heard it for a while and I can neither confirm nor deny, because nobody’s been offering me the private deals. I don’t know if you need the right friends, of a lot of money, or just be overly nice or what. But I’ve never come close to those private inner circles. I’m just glad I have a set that I love, that can play for the next 30 years. Because apparently the good stuff isn’t available.
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Uhh, now that I think about it, the greatest set I ever built was fueled by a big private purchase and ended in a private sale, so I may be a little bit full of shit. Also, when I was building a Gulfport set last decade, I got a lot of private help. Yup. Full of shit.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Public isn’t dead. I just bought a Sundance set via dibs a few weeks ago and a new member just landed a goated TRK set. And if you kept your eyes on eBay there was wsop rio chips.

An $8k Sundance chip set bought by a known chipping whale?

Wsop $10k+ dollar sets?

Yes, as said in several comments so far, the tippy top upper echelon sets are always going to be part of public and move when well priced. I may be wrong but that’s not the median/average chipper public purchase.

People may like the chips, but there’s not 200 other chippers that were like damn, I had and was going to spend $$$$$$$$$$$ on those chips if they weren’t taken.

But sure, public is still amazing if you have the $ to buy a couple chip sets a year that each cost the same as a used car……

 

[BarrieJ3]

Public is dead. All good stuff is sold privately. I’ve heard it for a while and I can neither confirm nor deny, because nobody’s been offering me the private deals. I don’t know if you need the right friends, of a lot of money, or just be overly nice or what. But I’ve never come close to those private inner circles. I’m just glad I have a set that I love, that can play for the next 30 years. Because apparently the good stuff isn’t available.
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I think that’s the problem, what are these secret cabals!? I don’t pm, I don’t text - the biggest chipping mistake if I wanted chips was leaving all the bigger text groups I was in back in the day.

It’s too much to keep up with so I just peaced out. Plus I prefer to do things out in the open. Meetups too are a huge thing, trips to Vegas, basically just irl activities. I don’t do too much of those.

But, what little bit I do has led to almost every chip I have - including the first two lifetime forever sets for me Paris and Adolfo’s - and one day tiger housemolds.

I have PMs from friends selling chips at an absolute fraction of their cost - and I desperately wish I had the money to send them and tell them to keep their chips. A ton of people are selling off - I’m out of capital momentarily from buying a couple already and holding them for them in case they want them back one day.

If the new house didn’t happen, I’d likely have at least 10-20 sets coming to the house. But, priorities I guess. Womp womp.

Want to build up 10s of thousands in chips for cheap? Befriend Jim. Be a highly utilized vendor. Attend all meetups. Etc.

 

[doublebooyah85]

An $8k Sundance chip set bought by a known chipping whale?

Wsop $10k+ dollar sets?

Yes, as said in several comments so far, the tippy top upper echelon sets are always going to be part of public and move when well priced. I may be wrong but that’s not the median/average chipper public purchase.

People may like the chips, but there’s not 200 other chippers that were like damn, I had and was going to spend $$$$$$$$$$$ on those chips if they weren’t taken.

But sure, public is still amazing if you have the $ to buy a couple chip sets a year that each cost the same as a used car……

Ok I don’t follow entirely. In regards to the Sundance I had 5 people PM asking for FROR in the future if I sell it. The premium sets costs the most but also are the most difficult to get…and there still is public sales.

And there’s other chips to be had too. I’m confused what couldn’t you get?

Just the last few weeks HSI chips have been available at a much lower price. I already highlighted premium sets. There was also a low price hot stamp Calgary set. @davislane has/had a massive IG set available.

However, if you want “private” sales just be active in the community, such as yourself, and why you have so much access to many sets. Find a friend, takes time, and sometimes saves you money lol

 

[BPTDirector]

I only remember one time. I was offered a huge opportunity on a grail set. Couldn’t pull the trigger for 15 k. And that would have been an epic accomplishment and helluva price.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Ok I don’t follow entirely. In regards to the Sundance I had 5 people PM asking for FROR in the future if I sell it. The premium sets costs the most but also are the most difficult to get…and there still is public sales.

And there’s other chips to be had too. I’m confused what couldn’t you get?

Just the last few weeks HSI chips have been available at a much lower price. I already highlighted premium sets. There was also a low price hot stamp Calgary set. @davislane has/had a massive IG set available.

However, if you want “private” sales just be active in the community, such as yourself, and why you have so much access to many sets. Find a friend, takes time, and sometimes saves you money lol

Idk honestly, everyone that says it might have a diff opinion.

I guess to share my perspective, it’s the amount of good, well intentioned, well priced small niche community hobby sales vs money grabs or 3 months of bumps non price drop sales.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, we all have different experiences. But I do believe you might not necessarily be tuned into the little guys - for example, I 100% believe 5 people pmed about a possible fror on those if you move them on. Now, I also 1000% believe that if you sold today, there’s not a chance in hell those 5 people would/could actually pull the cash together today - whereas that thought might not cross your mind because in your world you see chips you want you buy them.

And again - when you move that it’s likely to now gonna go via pm cause those guys are smart. I wish I felt more comfortable doing that kinda stuff, but I’m just not going to reach out to someone I don’t know and ask for that type of preferential treatment.

It’s no different than haggling. Some chippers haggle every single transaction, some don’t at all.

If you’re not pming, you’re not gonna be that successful at chipping.

 

[doublebooyah85]

If you’re not pming, you’re not gonna be that successful at chipping.

Correct

Classifieds are full of nice chips for sale, Jim lowers some prices during a sale to move chips. It’s never been tougher to sell chips on the secondary market. Like the title says, are we at market saturation point??

No Yes Kinda?

Rhc are readily available. NAGB arguable as well but even a good breakdown ESPT tourney set or Tiger set may take a week to track down and/or would also sell within a day.

We’re not saturated until chips r sitting on shelves for sale. And that’s really only rhc.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Correct


No Yes Kinda?

Rhc are readily available. NAGB arguable as well but even a good breakdown ESPT tourney set or Tiger set may take a week to track down and/or would also sell within a day.

We’re not saturated until chips r sitting on shelves for sale. And that’s really only rhc.

Aren’t there tiger sets on the actual Tiger website for sale? I thought so, but maybe not.

Again, everyone’s mileage may vary, but if someone wants a full Tiger set at the original costs, or a full nagb set at their ipo public prices, shoot me a message. I’d be astounded if I couldn’t find you one of each of them in 30 minutes.

I think it’s a fun convo! And it’s cool to see the diff experiences.

Edit - what’s funny is then there’s a whole other group that really don’t buy or sell anything ever anymore. They prob make up a huuuuuuuge % of PCF members, and both you and I have little to no exposure to those people or their experience. Just wanted to add that because I don’t want my comment of you may not be in touch with the little guys to be a dick comment. We all know what we know, and don’t know what we don’t.

I have no clue what chipping looks like to all those people who….aren’t chipping?

 

[BarrieJ3]

Also, being public about experiences and feedback improvement would help tremendously.

No one wants to be a dick or known as a brash asshole other than me, so no one calls anyone out publicly. We all bitch about things to each other and privately, we all dislike the same people, but here there are actively taking part in purchases and sales and such.

I still give some solid Barrie deals. But you’ll never see them posted publicly because fuck the people who will take it just because it’s good deal and it’s an investment - that’s not why we offer good deals to each other.

If that shit went away and folks like me weren’t tuned off by folks like them, you’d see a lot more great stuff moving publicly and flow of chips would return. You wouldn’t HAVE to pm to be successful.

I think that’s what’s missing - that constant flow of sets at the same buy/sale price as it moves through 6 homes in a year.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Oooooooo. Yes Barrie stfu no one wants your soliloquies.

But I think rent to own chips is also a HUGE plus. A lot of people could afford these rediculpus priced prized sets. But they can’t afford upfront. I think rent to own and lay away options would be fantastic and also help even out the chipping economy. Having been f*cked repeatedly on FRORs (I’d never ever ever ever do it again publicly), I’d much rather sell that way to help someone out.

Although then again, I never once thought people bought chips on credit cards or had financial infidelity in their long term partnerships to purchase chips, but apparently both of those are not uncommon at all. Mind blown.

 

[suchj0sh]

Oooooooo. Yes Barrie stfu no one wants your soliloquies.

But I think rent to own chips is also a HUGE plus. A lot of people could afford these rediculpus priced prized sets. But they can’t afford upfront. I think rent to own and lay away options would be fantastic and also help even out the chipping economy. Having been f*cked repeatedly on FRORs (I’d never ever ever ever do it again publicly), I’d much rather sell that way to help someone out.

Although then again, I never once thought people bought chips on credit cards or had financial infidelity in their long term partnerships to purchase chips, but apparently both of those are not uncommon at all. Mind blown.

As a peon that’s been around for a decent amount of time, I’ve had several members at least consider payment plans. Sometimes I’m too poor for the terms or whatever, but I have had offers. If you stick around long enough, it’s not too hard to sus out who is trustworthy (the large majority).

 

[BarrieJ3]

As a peon that’s been around for a decent amount of time, I’ve had several members at least consider payment plans. Sometimes I’m too poor for the terms or whatever, but I have had offers. If you stick around long enough, it’s not too hard to sus out who is trustworthy (the large majority).

Word, agreed! And I love seeing that.

I will say I think the community has shifted a bit to “everyone beware”.

Deals not ending well have become a bit more common, and we’ve shifted from a “shame on @Chipper for not being on the up and up” to “whelp that’s a shame oh well”.

 

[grandmeme]

I don't think public sales are dead. 100% of my chips have been from public sales.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I don't think public sales are dead. 100% of my chips have been from public sales.

A public wanted listing but private responses though.

 

[TheChipVault]

free bump... surprised these are still there..

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/empress-star-mint-600-chip-cash-set-splitting.132705/

 

[Lil Tuna]

we all dislike the same people

I think “dislike” is much too strong of a word Jeffrey and I believe disliking requires way more negative energy than most decent folks around here have to give.

What I truly believe is that most folks around here know who’s completely full of shit and who’s not and they base their decisions more on those premises.

Just some food for thought kid, not “riding your dick” nor have I ever had time to.

 

[grandmeme]

A public wanted listing but private responses though.

That's still considered a public sale IMO. I think Barrie would be referring to closed doors, whatsapp/text transactions. If he was referring to wanted listings as private sales then basically everyone in the forum has sold privately.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

That's still considered a public sale IMO. I think Barrie would be referring to closed doors, whatsapp/text transactions. If he was referring to wanted listings as private sales then basically everyone in the forum has sold privately.

Just my personal opinion here but I think if the public doesn’t know who sold the chips and at what transaction price I would say it was a private deal. Nothing wrong with it but certainly there was a point to not making everything known.

I could also say my Kings Castle sale resulted from that trade thread I put up publicly.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I think “dislike” is much too strong of a word Jeffrey and I believe disliking requires way more negative energy than most decent folks around here have to give.

What I truly believe is that most folks around here know who’s completely full of shit and who’s not and they base their decisions more on those premises.

Just some food for thought kid, not “riding your dick” nor have I ever had time to.

I don’t know or interact with your circles much as they’re not that active here, so no clue as to y’all’s experiences but good to hear.

Your last public thread for sale or purchase was like half a decade ago, so not sure how much current knowledge of current/newer chippers and their financial exchanges you have. (I don’t claim to have a clue, you might wheel and deal privately, you might engage buy/sales wise elsewhere, etc.)

I don’t think dislike is that strong, lol the words that come up at meetups and in PMs and texts are far worse than that - jokes no doubt, but still far worse.

There are absolutely a group of chippers that a large % of folks would actively avoid based on their dealings. Again, it’s private and word of mouth thing - who knows if it’s just small social circles or widespread - we have no clue because public feedback isn’t a real thing.

Everyone’s entitled to opinion and the more people that engage and post the better! I’m sure you’re still super active in chipping, buying/selling, and have your finger on the pulse of the market, but…..that all might not be true too based on post history. Which is….the primary topic at hand.

Either way, thanks for jumping in and sharing!

And hey, it’s always nice to find a hobby where I’m still a kid in comparison! Lol despite the whole marriage thing, family with kids, start and sold businesses, worked and climbed ladder in different industries, lived all over the country and globe, etc., chipping wise held meetups, tattoos, bought and sold hundreds of sets, banned, have a chipping site for historical reference, played wsop last couple years, etc.

One day I’ll have some experience and better well rounded viewpoints!

 

[BarrieJ3]

I don't think public sales are dead. 100% of my chips have been from public sales.

100%.

And you might actually be the majority! I have no clue. It is very cool to see some wanted ads being answered, and who knows, the first couple of sets let out of vaults or answering wanted ads may “break the seal”, and maybe we see that mind set spread.

Everything seems cyclical, ebbs and flows and such.

Btw, I think it’s criminal how few family photos we have! I wanna see all your stuff out on the table my man!

 

[grandmeme]

100%.

And you might actually be the majority! I have no clue. It is very cool to see some wanted ads being answered, and who knows, the first couple of sets let out of vaults or answering wanted ads may “break the seal”, and maybe we see that mind set spread.

Everything seems cyclical, ebbs and flows and such.

Btw, I think it’s criminal how few family photos we have! I wanna see all your stuff out on the table my man!

If we were talking about turnkey, ready to play sets in the $3-$5/chip range, I agree that there aren't many sets out that are sold.

But I think that if you start off strong with a core part of a set, pieces start to fall into place. Again, this depends on what you're looking for.

It's a good topic to talk about TBH. I do think that it is very difficult for beginners to get into the hobby. When you have to hunt for small pieces over the course of years it can be very tiring.

I'm horrible with my time and priorities but hopefully I'll get more pics out soon!

 

[BarrieJ3]

If we were talking about turnkey, ready to play sets in the $3-$5/chip range, I agree that there aren't many sets out that are sold.

But I think that if you start off strong with a core part of a set, pieces start to fall into place. Again, this depends on what you're looking for.

It's a good topic to talk about TBH. I do think that it is very difficult for beginners to get into the hobby. When you have to hunt for small pieces over the course of years it can be very tiring.

I'm horrible with my time and priorities but hopefully I'll get more pics out soon!

Ugh yeah, lol reminds me of my hotstamp journey. Searching for the right pieces for years, and I waited too long.

Eventually they became popular and everything became trade bait.

lol I bet for the last forever the best time to start chipping was 20 years ago, and if you haven’t started the next best time is now.

I agree, I’d hate to start chipping now, but the old school guys prob would’ve hated to start when I started, and so on.

I agree, love the topic and convo, because I don’t think any of us have the real answer. And that’s intentional, because if we really wanted to, we would take steps towards a more transparent landscape with tracking of costs and exchanges.