Tourney Half-sized BBA and then increase to full? (1 Viewer)

Preditor

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I am running a tournament later this afternoon, and have been trying to decide when best to introduce the BBA and how.

I know a lot of home-game style tournaments will intro the BBA after the first break (around level 5). But that always seems a bit random to me.

Still, I know that starting a full BBA too early can be frustrating.

Then I had a thought: what if I intro a half-sized BBA at the 2nd level, and then increase it to a full BBA after the first break?

It would look something like this:

25/50
50/100/50
75/150/75
100/200/100
150/300/150
***BREAK*** (intro full BBA)
200/400/400
300/600/600
400/800/800

And so on.

Thoughts?
 
BB ante should start in level two in my opinion. But I also like the rule that is it Small Blind ante if 5 or less players are at the table
 
I’m not really a fan of switching bba from half to full because

Shifting from a 0.5 BB ante to a 1.0 BB ante mid-tournament creates a discontinuous jump in pot size that reduces effective stack depth and M-ratio, lowering SPR degrades equity realization, inflates ICM volatility, and disrupts optimal mixed strategies.

Players are forced from mid-stack equilibrium ranges into short-stack jam/fold territory prematurely, producing structurally imbalanced pressure and non-linear EV distortion across levels.

Just a thought, but as I say, “ Your mileage may vary… “
 
I think a better option is add an additional level toward the beginning which adds it without an increase; plenty of casinos do the same.

25/50
25/50/50
50/100/100
75/150/150


If you don’t want 6 levels before the first break:

50/100
50/100/100
75/150/150
 
I know a lot of home-game style tournaments will intro the BBA after the first break (around level 5). But that always seems a bit random to me.
I think that’s maybe a remnant from traditional antes? When you were playing a T25 tournament, starting at 25/50, it didn’t make sense to use a 25 ante until the blinds got to what, at least 200/400? And I think I remember that’s how casinos and cardrooms got us used to the big blind ante - wait until after the first break.
But now it seems pretty standard to start them in level two, and I can’t see any reason not to start them in level one. You can always increase the starting stack sizes if the bba feels uncomfortable in the early levels.
But anyway, my opinion on the original question, no. I would t bother with a half bba. It feels contrived to me, and even though @Tight_Lay_DOWN raises concepts that might not matter to a lot of home game players, the reasonings are sound.
No half measures.
 
I think that’s maybe a remnant from traditional antes? When you were playing a T25 tournament, starting at 25/50, it didn’t make sense to use a 25 ante until the blinds got to what, at least 200/400? And I think I remember that’s how casinos and cardrooms got us used to the big blind ante - wait until after the first break.
But now it seems pretty standard to start them in level two, and I can’t see any reason not to start them in level one. You can always increase the starting stack sizes if the bba feels uncomfortable in the early levels.
But anyway, my opinion on the original question, no. I would t bother with a half bba. It feels contrived to me, and even though @Tight_Lay_DOWN raises concepts that might not matter to a lot of home game players, the reasonings are sound.
No half measures.
If you start them In level one two players that have not yet played a hand go all-in. One pays the BBA and the other does not so if he loses he has 1BB left
 
If you start them In level one two players that have not yet played a hand go all-in. One pays the BBA and the other does not so if he loses he has 1BB left
I forgot about that - good point. Personally I’m comfortable filing that under “life isn’t fair,” but you’re right; that’s a good reason.
 
I'm not a fan of BBA, to be honest. If you use them, you have to decide how to handle a player in the BB who doesn't have enough to cover both. The casino where I play does "BB first" which means if you just have 1.5 BB in your stack, the antes are short and you can still win a BB from everyone in the hand. Doesn't seem right.

Just get everyone used to antes on every hand, its not that hard. And start them whenever you like.
 
I'm not a fan of BBA, to be honest. If you use them, you have to decide how to handle a player in the BB who doesn't have enough to cover both. The casino where I play does "BB first" which means if you just have 1.5 BB in your stack, the antes are short and you can still win a BB from everyone in the hand. Doesn't seem right.

Just get everyone used to antes on every hand, its not that hard. And start them whenever you like.
Antes every hand (traditional antes) are fine if your players are serious, non-drinking players.

The rest of the world needs table antes (BBA, Button Ante or UTG ante) or no antes. No antes is the best option, but I do run 1-2 tournaments a year with BBA just to keep my game on par with casino play.
 
I think that’s maybe a remnant from traditional antes? When you were playing a T25 tournament, starting at 25/50, it didn’t make sense to use a 25 ante until the blinds got to what, at least 200/400? And I think I remember that’s how casinos and cardrooms got us used to the big blind ante - wait until after the first break.
When I used to do traditional antes in base 25, the first ante level for me would be a25,100-200. And I would try and keep the ante between 1/8 and 1/12 of the bb.

So I would structure like this

25-50
50-100 (before I adopted the 25-75 idea)
75-150
100-200
**Break**

a25,100-200
a25,150-300
a50,200-400
a75,300-600
**Break** (color up 25 here.)

a100,400-800
et cetera...

So you can see where traditional ante after one break can work.

But now with table ante, you don't have to wait for the blinds to get big enough where a one-chip ante makes sense. I think introducing BBA on Level 2 is the best option. Just repeating level one's blinds so it's not the double whammy for whoever gets it first.

But the purpose of the table ante is to approximate the sum of individual antes but consolidate it to one player. Looking at my traditional ante structure above, you can see in an 8-10 player game, the sum of individual antes approximates the big blind and I see no reason to start with less than that.

Now I have heard of big blind ante tournaments where they drop to a small blind ante when the field is down to the final 5. I don't know how widespread that idea is, but it is consistent with the idea of picking a table ante amount that would approximate the sum of a hypothetical individual ante. So if you would ever introduce Small Blind ante this would be a logical reason. But not up front, to ease players in. The first table ante should be for the BB. The way to east players in is the first BBA level should be of the same blinds as the first level.

In other words,

This would be my base 25 structure
25-50,
25-50 * START BBA
25-75
50-100
75-150
et cetera.

(Basically along the lines of @TheRealStephen12 's post above.)

And with base 100 is now common in casinos in the BBA era. I almost always see tournament structures like this.

100-100
100-100 *BBA
100-200
100-300
200-400
et cetera...

Didn't mean to write so much, and I know @Preditor 's question was for a game from a month ago, but I guess I just wanted to add to the after the fact discussion.
Hope this helps someone.
 
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Almost all major tournies have BBA from level 1
Since this has significant impact on how deep players start…in a good way (for the organiser)

WSOP and WPT are caught in over-promising GTD’s…so they want as much entries AND re-entries as possible to avoid overlay.
By introducing BBA, more action and shorter stacks…a bit the same as mandatory straddles in cash games.

TBH, a pure tourney structure should not need a BBA and start 100 to 150bb deep
 
If you start them In level one two players that have not yet played a hand go all-in. One pays the BBA and the other does not so if he loses he has 1BB left
So what?? I don't think this is a good enough reason to skip an entire level.
 

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