European with lots of questions- First Set - Microstakes (1 Viewer)

[Xzk1]

Hello everyone, after posting yesterday on the introduction post I'm feeling the itch to make a lot of questions about the beginning of my poker chip journey.

Context:
Me and my friends will start doing some home games.
Since a lot of players are true beginners we will start doing 5c/10c: 5$-20$ buy ins (we will most likely not get up to the 10c/25c soon )
Nº Players: 10 ( will plan for 10 but possibly will be 4-6 ).

Nº Chips: 500

One of the only options for chips as europeans are :
https://pokershop.de/
https://brpropoker.com/

Unfortunately, since I'm from Europe, the standard cheap starter sets are not that cheap.

Options:

Pokershop.de :
A) Majestics: 0.69c/chip = 349.90€ + 19.90€ shipping = 369.80€

BRPRO:
B) Tiki Kings : 0.70c/chip = 350€ + 20€ shipping = 370€

C) Dia de los Muertos: 0.70c/chip = 350€ + 20€ shipping = 370€

D) Tropic Oasis: 0.70c/chip = 350€ + 20€ shipping = 370€

____
Option Z : Buy from Classifieds from someone in Europe( which is not common unfortunately )



Royals would be good aswell but would need to relabel( no 5c chip) and Relabelling is not an option for now as its also expensive to relabell and ship to Portugal.

I'm gonna buy samples but I'm leaning towards the Majestics, the patterns feel more like casino chips, I think the ceramics from BRPRO would be great in a tournament set when I decide to make one.

Advantage of the Majestics: Design more in line with casino chips
Disadvantages of the Majestics: -Might not be as durable; The word "MAJESTIC" is so soft, makes me tilt a bit ; Black label is much worse then for example a white label (imo)

Advantage of the ceramics : I can buy them semi custom , as in, choose which denominations to use on the available colors, that is huge plus.
Disadvantages of the ceramics: Color patterns are not casino like, the feel of the chips might be way different from typical casino chips.

All in all I'm leaning towards the Majestics. The Tropic Oasis actually have a great "casino like " design, Tiki and DDLM are great for tournaments but I might bite the bullet and just buy them for cash . DECISIONS DECISIONS.

Question : Which options do you think I should choose?


___________________
On to the chip breakdowns:
500 chip set

I searched some topics on this :
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/need-help-building-a-small-microstakes-set.89856/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/new-members-start-here.85303/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...ut-a-cash-game-chip-set-5c-10c-to-5-10.30897/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/best-5c-10c-micro-stakes-breakdown.88910/
https://docs.google.com/presentatio...94QQaEgquQ/present#slide=id.gb87db633bf_0_252

Remember there will be a lot of limping pre flop as players barely even know the rules

I'm thinking for 5c/10c instead of doing 5c 100 , 25c 200 , 180 1$ , 20 5$ , I will do more 5c while sacrificing the higher denoms:


5c/10c
500 chips:

200x 5c
200x 25c
80x 1$
20x 5$

5$ Buy in (50BB):
20x 5c =1$
16x 25c =4$

10$ Buy in (100BB):
20x 5c
20x 25c
4x 1$

15$ Buy in (150BB) :
20x 5c
20x 25c
9x 1$

20$ Buy in (200BB):
20x 5c
20x 25c
14x 1$



I could future proof the set and include a 25c/50c setup ( as the threads indicate by buying more 1$, 5$ and buying some 25$) but I think I will pass on that for now.

Question : With the setup above I can play 5c/5c , 5c/10c and 10c/25c right? Is there anything lacking for these stakes?(games will mostly have 4-6 people)


Feedback is appreciated

After these questions are solved, I need to worry about getting bridge cut cards ( which are hard to find) and a table mat. Dealer button is on its way

 

[Xzk1]

Can't edit the post because edit time is passed . Weird.
Anyways totally forgot to include the 5$ in the chip breakdowns( Ideally I wouldn't need the 5$ for the 20$ buy in , but since I'm buying more 5c and less 1$, i need to compensate for that:

Let me know what you think:

500 chips : 5c/10c

5$ Buy in (50BB):
20x 5c =1$
16x 25c =4$

10$ Buy in (100BB):
20x 5c
20x 25c
4x 1$

15$ Buy in (150BB) :
20x 5c = 1$
20x 25c = 5$
4x 1$ = 4$
1x 5$ = 5$

20$ Buy in (200BB):
20x 5c = 1$
20x 25c = 5$
4x 1$ =4$
2x 5$ = 10

 

[LeLe]

I'm thinking for 5c/10c instead of doing 5c 100 , 25c 200 , 180 1$ , 20 5$ , I will do more 5c while sacrificing the higher denoms:

From experience, you really only need 100 x 5c, your stake will only grew as time go on. Making your 5c unless in the future

I had a group that we been playing 12-13 years together (since we are early 20's) often before Covid

We play 5/10c at the start and upgrade to 10/20c and then 25/25c stake now

5c/25c/$1/$5 100/200/160/40 will give you a bank of $415 if your group play causally or

5c/25c/$1/$5/$20 100/200/100/80/20 will give you a bank of $$955 if your group play better pre-flop and 3-bet 4-bet more

500 chips : 5c/10c

10$ Buy in (100BB):

For starting stack (100bb) with 100 blind chip, we give

5c/25c/$1 20/20/4 for the first 5 person and 25c/$1 20/5 from 6th person onward

 

[LeLe]

Option Z : Buy from Classifieds from someone in Europe( which is not common unfortunately )

Do a wanted ad at Classified at the same time now while you are considering

Sometime they don't list them because it didn't make a lot of sense for Non-EU chipper to buy them due to the shipping cost

 

[Xzk1]

From experience, you really only need 100 x 5c, your stake will only grew as time go on. Making your 5c unless in the future

I had a group that we been playing 12-13 years together (since we are early 20's) often before Covid

We play 5/10c at the start and upgrade to 10/20c and then 25/25c stake now

5c/25c/$1/$5 100/200/160/40 will give you a bank of $415 if your group play causally or

5c/25c/$1/$5/$20 100/200/100/80/20 will give you a bank of $$955 if your group play better pre-flop and 3-bet 4-bet more



For starting stack (100bb) with 100 blind chip, we give

5c/25c/$1 20/20/4 for the first 5 person and 25c/$1 20/5 from 6th person onward

Thank you for your feedback, really appreciate it !

My players are not used to playing for real money and salaries are low here so I doubt we will go beyond 5c/10c ,10c/20c or 10c/25c.
They also will limp a LOT because raising pre flop is not common for new players, so I feel that having 20x 5c would be better imo, it definately hinders the ability to progress , you're totally right.

 

[Xzk1]

Do a wanted ad at Classified at the same time now while you are considering

Sometime they don't list them because it didn't make a lot of sense for Non-EU chipper to buy them due to the shipping cost

Oh I will, I just don't have enough posts to make a Classified post . Grinding



A few questions popped up just now:

1)Would a 5c/5c but a lot different from 5c/10c?
What would be the acceptable Buy ins for such a low game?
2.5€-7.5€ (50BB-150BB) ?
What would be a typical starting stack for this game?



Also, if I progress in the next few years , should I go to 10c/20c or 10c/25c?
Since I already have the 25c the better option would be 10/25c right?

 

[Mandos]

Strongly worth considering a cards mold set like the Arias at those price points (possibly lower honestly). Not sure on shipping cost but you could probably even get one from US classifieds for cheaper than the prices mentioned. They've typically been listing for around .50/chip without shipping.

Something like these: Thread 'Aria’s Cards Mold Set' https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/aria’s-cards-mold-set.90571/

 

[Mandos]

Would a 5c/5c but a lot different from 5c/10c?
What would be the acceptable Buy ins for such a low game?

100bb is typical so probably 5

Also, if I progress in the next few years , should I go to 10c/20c or 10c/25c?

Doesn't really matter. I like .10/.20 so that a 100bb buyin is 20 but not a huge difference.

 

[LeLe]

1)Would a 5c/5c but a lot different from 5c/10c?
What would be the acceptable Buy ins for such a low game?
2.5€-7.5€ (50BB-150BB) ?
What would be a typical starting stack for this game?

It common to have a starting stack of 100bb, anything lower is not recommended

Also, if I progress in the next few years , should I go to 10c/20c or 10c/25c?
Since I already have the 25c the better option would be 10/25c right?

There really no chipset in the past that had denomination below $1

Our first Chip set had 200 of $1 / $5 / $25

When playing 5c/10c = We used $5 as 5c $25 as 25c and $1 as the same value

When playing 10/20c = We used $1 as 10c $5 as 50c $25 as 25c

When playing 25c/25c = I will used $25 as 25c $1 & $5 as the same value if I still using the same set

 

[Xzk1]

Strongly worth considering a cards mold set like the Arias at those price points (possibly lower honestly). Not sure on shipping cost but you could probably even get one from US classifieds for cheaper than the prices mentioned. They've typically been listing for around .50/chip without shipping.

Forgot to include that one.
I love that set. Will include it in the Classified post:


EDIT:
Just created the Classified post btw, hopefully will find something soon:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...estics-tiki-kings-ddlm-arias-card-mold.92581/

 

[Xzk1]

100bb is typical so probably 5

Doesn't really matter. I like .10/.20 so that a 100bb buyin is 20 but not a huge difference.

Makes sense

It common to have a starting stack of 100bb, anything lower is not recommended


There really no chipset in the past that had denomination below $1

Our first Chip set had 200 of $1 / $5 / $25

When playing 5c/10c = We used $5 as 5c $25 as 25c and $1 as the same value

When playing 10/20c = We used $1 as 10c $5 as 50c $25 as 25c

When playing 25c/25c = I will used $25 as 25c $1 & $5 as the same value if I still using the same set

That is a great idea. I will try doing the conventional way for now, but if I struggle with finding the set I might just steal your way of playing with those denoms

What do you guys think about my current options( Majestics, Tiki Kings, DDLM)? I know for 0.70c/chip is very expensive for the quality, drawbacks of being in Europe

Hopefully something will come up in the classifieds,an Aria cards mold microstakes set would be the dream , way better than these options but yeah, we will see

 

[philhut]

If you buy a set that does not have dollar signs but only denominations you could get away with 5"s playing as 5 cents and later as stakes rise adjust them to $5.

In the picture below this set could play with red 5's as 5cents, green 25 as 35 cents, and placket 100 as $1, 500 as $5 etc until your stakes rise. They are cheap chips but they are a swiss army knife of sets for 1 table given the options no currency sign gives.

cheap no currency denom chips
This cent could be used for 1cent/2cent up to $5/$10 for 1 table

 

[Xzk1]

If you buy a set that does not have dollar signs but only denominations you could get away with 5"s playing as 5 cents and later as stakes rise adjust them to $5.

In the picture below this set could play with red 5's as 5cents, green 25 as 35 cents, and placket 100 as $1, 500 as $5 etc until your stakes rise. They are cheap chips but they are a swiss army knife of sets for 1 table given the options no currency sign gives.

cheap no currency denom chips
This cent could be used for 1cent/2cent up to $5/$10 for 1 table

I can try finding a cheap set without dollar/euro signs but the quality will probably be way below the current options. Andsome of those sets are not really feasible for europeans( as in expensive when including the shipping ), not sure about yours obviously

 

[AnteAndy]

1)Would a 5c/5c but a lot different from 5c/10c?
What would be the acceptable Buy ins for such a low game?
2.5€-7.5€ (50BB-150BB) ?
What would be a typical starting stack for this game?

Only real difference would be the buy in amount. But 5c/5c is great for $5 100BB buy ins for beginners.

Also, if I progress in the next few years , should I go to 10c/20c or 10c/25c?
Since I already have the 25c the better option would be 10/25c right?

I'd ditch nickels and make the blinds 25c/25c. It plays so much better with 3 denominations (25c/$1/$5) than 4, makes counting stacks and pots much easier, & as someone said before a better standard of playing poker.

 

[Santa123]

Some thoughts
- Get samples of different kind of Chips like Clay(Paulsons, CPC), Ceramics and China Clay like Majestic. If you prefer Paulson scan the classfields or wait for the next Chiproom Sale. Buy a cheap plastic slugged Pokerset for the meantime.
- I too play these stakes. I prefer the denominations 10c, 50c, $1, $5. I think betting 5c and 25c feels awkward. It will lead to bets like 65c for example
The americans are used to it but probably in Portugal as in Germany people are not.
How ever I am totaly fine with the $ sign.
With the suggested denominations you can play 10c/10c. Small Blind equally high as the big blind is quit common in many casinos.

 

[Xzk1]

Only real difference would be the buy in amount. But 5c/5c is great for $5 100BB buy ins for beginners.


I'd ditch nickels and make the blinds 25c/25c. It plays so much better with 3 denominations (25c/$1/$5) than 4, makes counting stacks and pots much easier, & as someone said before a better standard of playing poker.

I will do that then.
5$ buy in -> 5c/5c
10$-20$ buy in -> 5c/10c
20$-50$ buy in -> 10c/25c or 25c/25c as you mentioned

I don't think we will really just to the 50$-100$ buy in-> 25c/50c so no point in thinking about that really

 

[Xzk1]

Some thoughts
- Get samples of different kind of Chips like Clay(Paulsons, CPC), Ceramics and China Clay like Majestic. If you prefer Paulson scan the classfields or wait for the next Chiproom Sale. Buy a cheap plastic slugged Pokerset for the meantime.
- I too play these stakes. I prefer the denominations 10c, 50c, $1, $5. I think betting 5c and 25c feels awkward. It will lead to bets like 65c for example
The americans are used to it but probably in Portugal as in Germany people are not.
How ever I am totaly fine with the $ sign.
With the suggested denominations you can play 10c/10c. Small Blind equally high as the big blind is quit common in many casinos.

Thank you for the feedback!

I don't think I will ever jump into Paulsons and other casino chips.

The end goal , if ( and thats a big "if") the cash games are regular is to buy a custom CPC set for cash and tournaments.
Right now I wanna spend as little as possible to start playing.

I will buy Majestics/Tiki/DDLM samples the next few days but honestly its so expensive ( like 8$ for the sample, 20$ for shipping its so gross).
I don't think I will be able to wait a lot honestly, im feeeeeling the itch to play.
Will see if anyone appears in the Classifieds or I will just trigger buy Majestics for 0.7c/chip

 

[LeLe]

Strongly worth considering a cards mold set like the Arias at those price points (possibly lower honestly). Not sure on shipping cost but you could probably even get one from US classifieds for cheaper than the prices mentioned. They've typically been listing for around .50/chip without shipping.

Something like these: Thread 'Aria’s Cards Mold Set' https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/aria’s-cards-mold-set.90571/

Card Mold are good options too

These are the first set that i purchased after I joined PCF

A Micro-Stakes NCC Card Mold

 

[Xzk1]

Card Mold are good options too

These are the first set that i purchased after I joined PCF

A Micro-Stakes NCC Card Mold

View attachment 954184View attachment 954185

I would love those and the ones @Mandos mentioned aswell (https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/aria’s-cards-mold-set.90571/)

Hopefully they appear in the Classified soon!

Just one question, those are ceramics or clay? I never really knew honestly.

 

[LeLe]

I would love those and the ones @Mandos mentioned aswell (https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/aria’s-cards-mold-set.90571/)

Hopefully they appear in the Classified soon!

Just one question, those are ceramics or clay? I never really knew honestly.

They are ceramic

 

[AnteAndy]

Forgot to include that one.
I love that set. Will include it in the Classified post:


EDIT:
Just created the Classified post btw, hopefully will find something soon:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...estics-tiki-kings-ddlm-arias-card-mold.92581/

I really think you should cut down the lower denoms' chip count and allocate towards the higher denoms. For a single table:

100x 5c
140x 25c
160x $1
100x $5
=$700 bank.

35x 100BB max buy ins for 10c/20c. Gives each person minimum 3 max buy ins at a full 10-person table. Or 28x 100BB max buy ins for 25c/25c, giving each person minimum 3 max buy ins at a 9-person table.

 

[Xzk1]

They are ceramic

Ah okay.

Now I'm here daydreaming about this set, that it probably won't really be available for me
If I could get it on a budget this would definitely be my dream starter set:


(picture from other thread)

 

[Ben8257]

The ole micro stakes questions again! Lol

Welcome @Xzk1 , I picked up on thr 4 - 6 players comment... seems like every chip breakdown you are working on is geared more for 10 players. I also like having lots of chips in play.I. but keep in mind that it can slow the game down a lot having a metric ton of low denom chips in play. I try to stick to the "average of 1 barrel of each per player" kind of rule.

So even say one night you got 8 players. I would personally do something like:

15 x $.05 = $.75 × 8 = 120
13 x $.25 = $3.25 × 8 = 104
16 x $1 = $16 × 8 = 128

Rebuys 1 - 8
4 × $.25 = $1 × 8 = 32
4 x$1 =$4 × 8 = 32
3 x $5 = $15 x 8 = 24

Rebuys 9 - 16
5 x $1 = $5 × 8 = 40
3 x $5 = $15 × 8 = 24

Rebuys 17 - 24

4 x $5 = $20 × 8 = 32

We still have room to add in additional high denoms chips as extras, but keep in mind the $.25 and $1 chip are your work horse (most used) chip here so you want quite a few of those

For a perfect game breakdown I would rather have a 600 chip set that already covers future expansion and a hefty top end for the crazy nights I would go:

Total set:
$.05 = 120
$.25 = 140
$1 = 200
$5 = 120
$20 = 20

Trying to squeeze that down to 500 chips would be tight unless you don't expect that many rebuys.

To those that say "ditch the nickle!" I absolutely disagree with that statement! $.25/$.25 does play similar but not the same and personally I still want a small and large blind the way the game was designed... not 2 big blinds. A nickle game sounds fun and inviting to new players. As silly as It sounds I have seen players at a meet up (gathering of chip collectors to play poker) shy away from a quarter table in fear that it plays "too big!"

Go with your gut here but you are on the right track for your first set sir!

My cards molds Taj Mahal tributes to the nickle

Available here on the site through @rjdev7 are the Super Poker Worlds also produced by BR PRO

Down to a penny for a $.02/$.05 for a $10 buy in.

Real clay BCC FOC $.05/$.10

Best of luck with the new set! Always around if you ever have any questions

Fellow Chipper Ben

 

[Xzk1]

We still have room to add in additional high denoms chips as extras, but keep in mind the $.25 and $1 chip are your work horse (most used) chip here so you want quite a few of those

For a perfect game breakdown I would rather have a 600 chip set that already covers future expansion and a hefty top end for the crazy nights I would go:

Total set:
$.05 = 120
$.25 = 140
$1 = 200
$5 = 120
$20 = 20

Man thank you so much for the help, you guys are really welcoming to others!

A lot of things to think about in your answer:
I don't expect many rebuys honestly.
As for ditching the nickel, thats impossible, games will play pretty small most likely only 5c/5c or 5c/10c for the next year or so .
Your breakdown for 600 seems nice for future expansion. I'm saving that on my word document for future thought.
I'm still hesitant to drop the 200x 5c but I'm getting convinced with great arguments

 

[Ben8257]

Man thank you so much for the help, you guys are really welcoming to others!

A lot of things to think about in your answer:
I don't expect many rebuys honestly.
As for ditching the nickel, thats impossible, games will play pretty small most likely only 5c/5c or 5c/10c for the next year or so .
Your breakdown for 600 seems nice for future expansion. I'm saving that on my word document for future thought.
I'm still hesitant to drop the 200x 5c but I'm getting convinced with great arguments

Remember! This is YOUR set of chips, awesome to get recommendations from other chippers... but at the end of the day they are yours. If you really think somehow the Nickle is going to be your work horse and the game will play that light, then go for what you think is the correct breakdown. But you did ask others opinions, others that play those exact same stakes, those that have made prior mistakes and wound up with way more low denom chips than they need.

I understand shipping is expensive overseas, but going with a semi custom set means you can always add on or space out the purchases over time. This means it doesn't have to be perfect right off the break!

Sounds like you are very budget driven... careful in this hobby, the "chipping bug" is real! For many of us when that first chip set comes in... we just want MOAR!

I hope you can get your chips and be content... if you see words like Paulson, THC, IHC, Scrown, BCC... DO NOT open those threads! Lol

 

[Beakertwang]

IMO, buying 200 nickels would be wasteful. Sure, there will be a lot of limping, but since the players are new, you can teach them how to properly make change (1 chip rule, no change until betting is complete, etc.), and they will adjust quickly. I had to nag about this for a bit, but everyone has adjusted, and now it's just normal. Also, my game has evolved to the point where there's very little limping. Now I could get by with fewer than 10 nickels per player if needed.

I would recommend expanding your set a little, if you can, but 500 should work fine, especially if you expect 6 players as the norm. I'd do 100/150/150/100 for a bank of about €700, and let €20 bills play (or get custom plaques!) if you ever use the entire bank.

+1 on cards molds, if you can get in on a Euro group buy or find a set for sale. Getting your own custom or semi-custom chips is a cool upgrade for your game, and your players will dig them.

Also, you could check out @SUN-FLY Poker Chips. Excellent product, and shipping to Europe might not be horrible.

 

[DontKnowWhen]

Hi. Welcome.

Agree with the advice above. You will most likely not need more than one barrel of the blind denom per player.

also consider that with options A,B,C,D above you can easily add-on later (assuming the companies don’t go out of business) as your game grows. This isn’t as easy to do with some of the other options such as card molds, custom sets, used casino sets.

Good Luck and as @Ben8257 said it’s your set and your game so you really can’t go too wrong.

 

[philhut]

I can try finding a cheap set without dollar/euro signs but the quality will probably be way below the current options. Andsome of those sets are not really feasible for europeans( as in expensive when including the shipping ), not sure about yours obviously

I paid approx $100 including shipping for everything. I wouldnt pay much more for the set, it is however the nicest cheap set of chips I have ever handled (though I dislike is says texas hold'em on the border. this was is a small travel/kids set for me. For a good option I'd recommend custom cards mold. This will give you total control of the denominations and custom will prevent players from bringing in outside chips, even nickles lol.

 

[SeanGecko]

IMO, buying 200 nickels would be wasteful. Sure, there will be a lot of limping, but since the players are new, you can teach them how to properly make change (1 chip rule, no change until betting is complete, etc.), and they will adjust quickly. I had to nag about this for a bit, but everyone has adjusted, and now it's just normal. Also, my game has evolved to the point where there's very little limping. Now I could get by with fewer than 10 nickels per player if needed.

I would recommend expanding your set a little, if you can, but 500 should work fine, especially if you expect 6 players as the norm. I'd do 100/150/150/100 for a bank of about €700, and let €20 bills play (or get custom plaques!) if you ever use the entire bank.

+1 on cards molds, if you can get in on a Euro group buy or find a set for sale. Getting your own custom or semi-custom chips is a cool upgrade for your game, and your players will dig them.

Also, you could check out @SUN-FLY Poker Chips. Excellent product, and shipping to Europe might not be horrible.

Hey!!!!

Wasteful????

That's some BS

Hardwell Underground MK 1

• SeanGecko
• Nov 18, 2020

8V 5 cents 04.JPG

• SeanGecko
• Feb 5, 2019

 

[Ben8257]

@Xzk1 I saw that "like" in my 18 months thread... you didn't listen at all! "Stay away from words like THC" notice I didn't share THAT micro set... some people fall over when they realize people spend more on a micro stakes set of poker chips than a nice used car! Lmao

I'm starting to get worried the chipping bug may have already got you!!

It's ok... just avoid anything that says "TRK scrown" that's a big No-No for chippers on a budget... there are new cars that cost less than some of those sets! Lol

I'm kidding, but again this hobby can be much worse than addictive drugs. May sound funny... but I am serious!