Tourney Damn Chip OCD and Wallet Not Cooperating... (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

Building a CPC Tourney Set... However, my chip sensibilities (desire for more chips and full racks) are not in line with my wallet. That said, I'm trying to spend more money (that I don't have). I need help sorting this out!

OK, here is some background:

I'm building a 1000 chip set to accommodate 20-30 people. All of my tourney sets in the past have typically involved 300-400 workhorse chips (25s/100s), but I recognize that I could get by with less. I host maybe 4-5 tourney's a year. Most are 20 person max tourneys, and there's the MTTD, which will be 30 people this year. My tourneys run from 10k-20k starting stacks.

A 1000 chip set breakdown (that accommodates these games) would look like this:

25x250
100x250
500x200
1000x200
5000x100

The issues:

1- For starters, this breakdown violates the "full rack" rule.
2- It also seems like such a small set for potentially 30 people.
3- I'd like to have more workhorse (WH) chips 25's/100's in the starting stacks (if possible)

Here's the starting stack breakdowns:

1st Conundrum:

If I host a 30 person tourney (the MTTD), the only way to get starting stacks of at least 12/12 of the WH chips is to bump up to 400 of each of the WH chips. This is a big cost (around $600 extra), and will only be of benefit during ONE game each year, just to use 12 WH chips vs 8 (in starting stacks).

2nd Conundrum:

Full racks... How can I justify filling up the WH chip racks from 250 to 300? Full racks are nice, but I'll never NEED more than 240 chips... So I'm spending an extra $200 for aesthetics?

3rd Conundrum:

Uneven chip amounts (OCD kicks in). I don't like odd numbers (1100=bad, 1200=good). So if I bumped up the chip counts 1100 to satisfy "full rack" chip OCD, then don't I have to bump it to 1200 chips to satisfy the "even numbers" OCD? Because if that's the case, then I'm spending an extra $400 now... And where do I allocate this extra rack of chips?

4th Conundrum:

If I wind up just saying, I'm in for an extra $400, why not just get 400 of each of the WH chips (and be in for $600)? That solves my 1st conundrum, right? However, then I have uneven amounts again... 1300 chips.... I'd need to find a reason to buy another rack to get even to 1400 chips... Increasing my original cost by $800... Damn, this rabbit hole never ends.

OK, in summary, please tell me I'm fine with 1000 chips, and don't need the extra chips. Please convince me that it's ok with a tourney set to have two equal groups of 250 chips.

* fine print. yes, I understand that 1300, 1100, etc... are technically even numbers...

 

[links_slayer]

Not everyone needs to start the tourney with starting stacks that are identical breakdowns. Just throwing that out there. You could get 300 T25s and 300 T100s and hand out 12-12-x-x stacks to half of the 30-player field and 8-8-x-x stacks to the other half. Other than extras (a must, IMO) there is absolutely no reason to order more T25s and T100s than you need for starting stacks.

I'm sure this tilts your OCD more than uneven racks though.....

 

[manamongkids]

Not everyone needs to start the tourney with starting stacks that are identical breakdowns. Just throwing that out there. You could get 300 T25s and 300 T100s and hand out 12-12-x-x stacks to half of the 30-player field and 8-8-x-x stacks to the other half. Other than extras (a must, IMO) there is absolutely no reason to order more T25s and T100s than you need for starting stacks.

I'm sure this tilts your OCD more than uneven racks though.....

HAHAHAHAHAHA good one, the chances he has different players start with different breakdowns is .0000000000001%

 

[Mr. Cheese]

3rd Conundrum:

Uneven chip amounts (OCD kicks in). I don't like odd numbers (1100=bad, 1200=good). So if I bumped up the chip counts 1100 to satisfy "full rack" chip OCD, then don't I have to bump it to 1200 chips to satisfy the "even numbers" OCD? Because if that's the case, then I'm spending an extra $400 now... And where do I allocate this extra rack of chips?

This doesn't help you cut back but I'd bump it up to 1200 . Then you can use 2 600 chip birdcages (not the cheapo ones either, the nice HD ones of course). I specifically bumped my set from 500 to 600 for this very reason.

 

[Trihonda]

I'm sure this tilts your OCD more than uneven racks though.....

HAHAHAHAHAHA good one, the chances he has different players start with different breakdowns is .0000000000001%

Ha Ha!!! Yup, probably a good call there.

And if I get the 300 of each 25/100, then that leaves me with 1100 chips. I'd have a full birdcage (and one lonely rack floating around somewhere loose?).

I'm so torn. I know I only NEED 1000 chips, and don't want to spend money needlessly.... But this is a chip forum, since when did NEED factor into the equation on whether to buy more chips. Oh man... 1000 seems like so few chips...

I think I'm sorta leaning towards just getting the 1000 chips, but I needed to write it all out here to make sense of it all...

 

[links_slayer]

HAHAHAHAHAHA good one, the chances he has different players start with different breakdowns is .0000000000001%

I'll take the under.

 

[slisk250]

The solution is so easy. You are a OCD chipaholic. Knowing that is very important. That said, if you get 1 chip less then you need to properly play and store this game, it will tilt you until the end of time. Donate plasma, collect aluminum cans on the roadside. I see this as the breakdown you need:

25 - 360
100 - 360
500 - 180
1000 - 150
5000 - 60 (read below get 150)
1110 chips you must now add 90 chips for rebuys and OCD satisfying Feng Sui. 30 rebuys = 90 T5000

There you have it...1200 chips. Listen to your inner chip nerd...

This allows you to color the 25s & 100s if you don't ante them away. 12 FULL racks. Breath deeply.

Two FULL 600 cages....see you NEED 1200 chips

 

[CdnBeerLover]

I use that 1000 chip breakdown for my set (I have 1200, but only 1000 fit the case I have), and it works fine. At some point, I'll get two birdcages, but for now it works.

You have one rack that is evenly split 50/50. I don't see that as an issue, even from an OCD perspective. If it wasn't evenly split, THAT would trigger an OCD moment.

 

[Trihonda]

You have one rack that is evenly split 50/50. I don't see that as an issue, even from an OCD perspective. If it wasn't evenly split, THAT would trigger an OCD moment.

This is what I'm holding onto... What is helping me come to terms with the possibility of non-full racks.

 

[MaxB]

All of my denominations (25c through 25k) are not full racks....many are not even full barrels (y) :thumbsup:

But I would jump up to 1200 chips over the 1000 for those bigger events......the extra money for 200 chips is not going to be that bad

 

[Ronoh]

Just order however many you are comfortable ordering with the intention of adding on later if need be.

Per my set I can't justify dishing out $5000 for a cash set, certainly not when I almost never even get the chips I have in play. When my design is finished by J5 I am planning on only getting an 800 chip set and am intending on adding 200-400 chips each year until I'm content.

I am well aware of the risk involved, and I am okay with that. If they happen to close up shop before I am finished I can live with that. But I am excited about the option to slightly change an edgespot if I like with each reorder to commemorate that years order

 

[Trihonda]

I am excited about the option to slightly change an edgespot if I like with each reorder to commemorate that years order

Oooh, an annual commemorative MTTD hundo or 5k chip

 

[ssanel54]

I would not consider T25 a workhorse chip, and unless you are using antes they will be removed from the tournament pretty quickly. As Links pointed out, no need (other than OCD) to have more T25 chips than you need for starting stacks. If your looking to add more chips, I find T1000 is the most useful for starting stack flexibility.

In regards to my OCD - full racks > full barrels > 10/10 barrels > partial barrels

 

[Trihonda]

I would not consider T25 a workhorse chip, and unless you are using antes they will be removed from the tournament pretty quickly. As Links pointed out, no need (other than OCD) to have more T25 chips than you need for starting stacks. If your looking to add more chips, I find T1000 is the most useful for starting stack flexibility.

In regards to my OCD - full racks > full barrels > 10/10 barrels > partial barrels

Where the "Full Wallet" fall into your OCD assessment?

OK, I don't really consider a T25 a workhorse chip. However, the hundos typically are. They see a lot of felt time (especially if there's antes). The 25 and 100 chips are often given out in the same quantities, and going short on either just seems to create a lot of change making.

 

[ssanel54]

Where the "Full Wallet" fall into your OCD assessment?

OK, I don't really consider a T25 a workhorse chip. However, the hundos typically are. They see a lot of felt time (especially if there's antes). The 25 and 100 chips are often given out in the same quantities, and going short on either just seems to create a lot of change making.

probably after Full barrels, but wallet shouldn't factor much into this.

I think you can do a mixed rack with 60 hundos and 40 25's which you'll only need to use when you are hosting your biggest 30 person tournament. If you don't like odd numbers, won't the 50/50 configuration drive you nuts with the mixed barrel?

 

[Trihonda]

Actually, @ssanel54 makes a great point. I think full barrels look way better, and in my scenarios, there's no point of ever needing more than 240 of the greens (unless I went with a much bigger set. If I only do a 1000 chip set, I might have to switch up my plan to something like:

240x25
260x100
200x500
200x1000
100x5000

This would allows a full barrel of 100's to facilitate coloring up the 25's. Not that this can't be done by buying hundo's off the table, but minimizing this would be nice.

Of course ordering a few extras in case of breakage, loss, etc.. Not sure what the norm is for ordering extras, as I've heard the CPC (or the old ASM) used to toss in a few extras? Is this still the case? Regardless, I'll be ordering extras for sample sets, and I imaging ordering a few extra sample sets too.

 

[inca911]

All of my denominations (25c through 25k) are not full racks....many are not even full barrels

*shudder*
That makes me queasy just thinking about it. I can deal with full barrels of different chips in a full rack, but someone has to hold the line and stop the insanity before we start considering partial barrels! I mean, just think of the children...!

 

[links_slayer]

I'd recommend at least 10 extra of each denom just in case (in addition to samples) - although 20 extra would fill up a rack nicely.

And I don't know why you are getting 260 x T100. Seems like a waste of 20 chips, considering the T25's can be colored up with the bigger denoms. I assume this means you are going 8-8-x-x starting stacks for 30-player fields? This works but (as you know) this will require the need to make change more frequently than the 12-12-x-x starting stacks.

 

[Trihonda]

Ya, the 8-8-x-x is unavoidable at 30 players... Regardless of whether I do 240 or 260 x 100's. Unless I go with 360 chips (for 25/100), which puts me well over budget

At 20 players, it's 12-12-x-x, and I would only host more than 20 people once per year.

The idea of getting 240/260/200/200 was that it keeps the barrels full (not split), which is ok for my chip OCD. Secondarily, is that when coloring up the 25's, you'll use some hundos to make this happen. Yes, you can buy some of the hundos off the table with 500's, etc..., but if you have a barrel of 100's remaining for color ups, it's marginally easier (probably still gonna want to buy back a few hundos in the process of coloring up).

In other words, there's ZERO need for more than 240 x 25, but I can justify (even if marginally) the use of an extra barrel of 100's.

That said, I was ok with equal amounts of 250/250 for the WH chips, but am wondering if I might be better served going with full barrels 240/260 in my breakdown?

I tend to agree --> full racks > full barrels > partial barrels.

Great advice on getting 10 extra of each denom. Makes sense.


OK, edited since I re-read Links post, and I see his point. I could use those 20 chips elsewhere in the set? Well, anything other than doing the 100's and I'd potentially have a snow-ball effect of unfull racks.. I'm already splitting the 25's and 100's up, may as well keep the partial racks together?

All my extras will probably sit in another drawer (not with the main set). If I went with 250/250, and I'd have my 10 extra chips built into the set. However, if I lost a chip, I'd have a rack of 99 chips...

 

[BGinGA]

For starters, I think you're making a big mistake planning a T15K tourney using 8/8/4/2/2 or 12/12/3/2/2 starting stacks. They do not put nearly enough T1000 chips into play, creating a different change-making problem and slowing down the game. To a lesser degree, smallish numbers of T500 chips can also cause problems. Starting stacks of 8/8/6/6/1 (or 8/8/4/7/1) and 12/12/5/6/1 are much superior choices.

To summarize: for T15K tournaments, I recommend using 12/12/5/6/1 stacks for up to 10 players, and 8/8/6/6/1 stacks for 21-30 players.

That said, let's first look at what you actually need, then at what works for your OCD:

Need (8/8/6/6/1 and 12/12/5/6/1 stacks)
240 x T25
240 x T100
180 x T500
200 x T1000 (includes color-up chips for T25/T100)
50 x T5000 (includes color-up chips for T500)
-----------
910 chips

~or~

Need (8/8/4/7/1 and 12/12/5/6/1 stacks)
240 x T25
240 x T100
120 x T500
240 x T1000 (includes color-up chips for T25/T100)
50 x T5000 (includes color-up chips for T500)
-----------
890 chips

So yes, you can easily meet your multi-table needs with 1000 chips. Even if you plan for up to 30% re-buys (nine for 30 players), that only adds 27 more T5000 chips.

Now, dealing with the OCD:

Topping off the 910 set (need 90):
240 x T25
240 x T100
180 x T500 -- add 20 for 200 x T500
200 x T1000 -- add 20 for 220 x T1000
50 x T5000 -- add 50 for 100 x T5000
-----------
910 chips + 90 = 1000 chips, which is nine perfect racks and one 40/40/20 rack (T25/T100/T1000). I do this on a regular basis, and it doesn't bother me a bit (and I rate pretty high on the chip OCD meter). Get the extra 20x T100 (vs T1000) if you want, but my experience is that the T1000 chips will be more useful. The ONLY time you will need the 100s is for the exact circumstance of exactly 30 players, in which case just pull your 10 spare hundos out of storage.

Topping off the 890 set (need 110):
240 x T25
240 x T100
120 x T500
240 x T1000 -- add 60 for 300 x T1000
50 x T5000 -- add 50 for 100 x T5000
-----------
890 chips + 110 = 1000 chips, which again is nine perfect racks and one 40/40/20 rack (T25/T100/T500).

Trust me, either one of those set breakdowns will work with no issues. In all cases, T1000 chips are used to color-up T25 and T100 chips, and T5000 chips are used to color-up T500 chips.

Regarding extras, I'm a firm believer of getting an extra barrel of every denomination -- and for a set with five denominations, it makes for a great display rack.


One last question, just to throw a monkey wrench into the whole works -- whatcha plannng on doing about bounty chips?

 

[Trihonda]

For starters, I think you're making a big mistake planning a T15K tourney using 8/8/4/2/2 or 12/12/3/2/2 starting stacks. They do not put nearly enough T1000 chips into play, creating a different change-making problem and slowing down the game. To a lesser degree, smallish numbers of T500 chips can also cause problems. Starting stacks of 8/8/6/6/1 (or 8/8/4/7/1) and 12/12/5/6/1 are much superior choices.

I created that spreadsheet in haste. These (12/12/5/6/1) are my exact starting stacks with T15k games. If I do a T20k, I'll possibly add a second 5k chip.

Regarding extras, I'm a firm believer of getting an extra barrel of every denomination -- and for a set with five denominations, it makes for a great display rack.

Yikes, this is a great suggestion, and is gonna cost me more money me thinks...

One last question, just to throw a monkey wrench into the whole works -- whatcha plannng on doing about bounty chips?

These are in the works, and as much as I'd rather not mix ceramic and clay, I have a huge lot of oversized 46mm ceramic bounties in the works that will be very close in artwork to the table felt design. I like the idea of oversized bounty chips, and CPC doesn't have an A-Mold option available ATM, and to be honest, the ceramics will be 75% cheaper, and will be just fine. I was going to make the MTTD commem chip also act as a bounty (given away at the meetup), but I saw some logistical issues with giving away bounty chips souvenirs. Solution, I'm doing two separate chips, a bounty and a commem.

 

[detroitdad]

(12/12/5/6/1

Not a fan of starting stacks that only utilize one chip of a denomination in a starting stack.

 

[Trihonda]

Not a fan of starting stacks that only utilize one chip of a denomination in a starting stack.

My games typically run either 10k or 20k. Rarely do they run 15k. That either puts 2 5k chips, or no 5k chips. .

 

[AWenger]

I was reading this thread a little earlier, and was about to post, but BGinGA already mentioned a couple of things. I'll add, your ideal chip distribution may depend on how you run tourneys

• How are color-ups handled? -- by chip 'race' or just round up to next denom. (i.e. latter, 1-T25 chip gets 1-T100 when coloring up.) If the latter, maybe the extra 20 T100 chips are worth it* [*The OCD in me likes the 240 T25 + 260 T100 -- that way in a 1000 chip birdcage, the small denoms fit in 5 racks on one side of the handle, the large denoms fit in the other 5 racks.]
• Rebuys? if so, get more T5k chips, less T500 chips.
• Think about what happens in when the tourney gets down to 4 to 6 players, how many chips will be in front of each player, even after coloring up the T25s and T100s. I've played in tourneys where a large amount of chips gets unwieldy and takes extra time for players to count out all ins (when they win at showdown). I'd favor getting more T5k chips for color ups when tourney gets short handed.

(or 8/8/4/7/1)

I'm also a fan of the 8/8/4/7 distro. Later in the tourney, the T1000 will be the workhorse chip. Add 1-T5k for 15000 starting stack; and 2-T5k chips for T20k starting stack. (captain obvious). You'll need less T500 chips in the overall set, making more room for extra T1000 and T5k.

You could even start with 8/8/2/8..., and use the extra T500 chips for the first color ups. I'll second BGinGA's last table that had 120 T500s.

I've played in 2 or 3 table tourneys at Planet Hollywood that had a starting stack with just 4 T25 chips, which worked, but dealers made change with other players. For the lowest denom chips 4 per player may be too little, 12 may be too many, but I think 8 is just about right.

In all cases, T1000 chips are used to color-up T25 and T100 chips, and T5000 chips are used to color-up T500 chips.

Also a fan of this method. As people bust out, there will be more T100s per player, don't necessarily need to add a whole bunch more T100s just to color up T25s

For me, I'd be fine with exactly 1000 chips, no more, no less. In roughly 50 home games I've ever hosted, I've never lost a chip or had a player take any. I can only recall 2 times where a chip broke, one was when unpacking some fairly inexpensive ASMs and dropped a whole bunch at once on a hardwood floor, the other was a Paulson chip that split during shipping, but I was able to superglue it back together with almost no noticeable difference.

 

[Trihonda]

How are color-ups handled? -- by chip 'race' or just round up to next denom.

Color up. 1-T25 left, they're given a T100

Rebuys?
.

I've never run a rebuy tourney, but that's not to say I wouldn't at some point. Just not my thing. I like people to bust out when I'm hosting, which gets the cash game going sooner

I'm more inclined to add other aspects to spice up the tourney, like bounties and high hand or bad beat jackpots. I don't do these every time, but I'll toss in something to mix it up.

Think about what happens in when the tourney gets down to 4 to 6 players, how many chips will be in front of each player, even after coloring up the T25s and T100s

I do make a point to get some of the smaller denoms colored up with the larger denoms when possible.

With 30 players and a starting stack of 20k (the largest tourney I'd feasibly ever host), there's roughly 600k in play at the end. With a rack of 5k's and a rack of 1k's, I'd have the final few players well covered, with a rack of 1k's to spare.