Cash Game Courtesy of betting “pot” vs specific amount in PL? (1 Viewer)

[honkydevil]

Just play NL Omaha. “Pot” is no longer a valid bet.

 

[detroitdad]

Just play NL Omaha. “Pot” is no longer a valid bet.

I've played that before. Its fricken insanse lol.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I agree. A couple of guys in my group disagree with this. I can't remember who. I've made pot being illegal at my house during no limit games. I get flak for it.

As said before, counting the pot in any NL game is not allowed. You must state a bet amount or "all in". Since betting "pot" would require counting the pot it is not an acceptable bet.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Just play NL Omaha. “Pot” is no longer a valid bet.

That is exactly what we do.

 

[honkydevil]

I've played that before. Its fricken insanse lol.

Lol I imagine, if you get to the flop you’re probably all in or fold.

I was only half ways trolling though, if the players can’t help stack chips into barrels and half barrels in the pot, maybe NLO would be worth trying.

 

[detroitdad]

@Marc Hedrick was it you that thinks we should be able to bet Pot in a NL game? Damnt, getting old sucks.

 

[pltrgyst]

All the above is a perfect summary of the reasons I absolutely hate, hate, hate pot-limit poker.

And that's why when I deal PL, i keep the pot in stacks of 20, 10, or 5 chips of each denomination, arranged in a particular order.

PL is especially painful without a dedicated dealer who knows what he's doing, like Forrest at meet-ups. I think he and I are the only guys dumb enough to volunteer to deal, even when we're playing.

(Don't tell him I said that. He actually thinks we all like to play at his table because he's so charming, when really, we're just f****ing lazy... )

 

[Rhodeman77]

@Eloe2000 if you are host (and even if not) I would make a habit of sitting in one of the middle seats and start stacking up the chips in the pot so that everyone gets used to it being done. It will speed up the game for everyone and help to get more hands in per hour.

 

[Rhodeman77]

We play so much PLO everyone is pretty good at knowing about how much is in the pot that even if we aren’t sure of the exact dollar amount it doesn’t slow the game down while the next person decides what to do. They already have an understanding of how much the bet is to them and how much they can raise if they want to.

Are you playing PLO on a regular basis with a regular group of people or is this something you only play occasionally with only a few regulars and several random people to fill out the game?

 

[Eloe2000]

@Eloe2000 if you are host (and even if not) I would make a habit of sitting in one of the middle seats and start stacking up the chips in the pot so that everyone gets used to it being done. It will speed up the game for everyone and help to get more hands in per hour.

I am host, but unfortunately I need to sit at the end for space/orientation reasons. Regardless, I may just start doing this because I prefer to be organized. But honestly, I don't think this will change this player's tendency to do this.

 

[detroitdad]

We play so much PLO everyone is pretty good at knowing about how much is in the pot that even if we aren’t sure of the exact dollar amount it doesn’t slow the game down while the next person decides what to do. They already have an understanding of how much the bet is to them and how much they can raise if they want to.

Are you playing PLO on a regular basis with a regular group of people or is this something you only play occasionally with only a few regulars and several random people to fill ou the game?

Same with my group. We rarely play anything but pot limit.

 

[MatB]

So far, in this thread, i've some great notes on what tilts Forrest and Paulo.... carry on.

 

[Eloe2000]

We play so much PLO everyone is pretty good at knowing about how much is in the pot that even if we aren’t sure of the exact dollar amount it doesn’t slow the game down while the next person decides what to do. They already have an understanding of how much the bet is to them and how much they can raise if they want to.

Just to be clear, in our case everyone has a general sense. The bettor has a general sense and the other player's have a general sense. The other players are frustrated when the bettor bets "pot" instead of $32 specifically when the pot is very roughly around $32 (.25/.25 so lots of quarters and $1's) but may be $31.50 or $32.25 etc. They just want the bettor to bet $32 or $33 or whatever to make it move quicker than committing the play to specifically the pot that no one has counted exactly at that point. No one is too sensitive about the exact quarter etc. so if the bettor said $32 and it looked roughly correct to the pot no one would question it.

Are you playing PLO on a regular basis with a regular group of people or is this something you only play occasionally with only a few regulars and several random people to fill ou the game?

PLO/NLHE dealer's choice weekly for the last 7 years with the same exact people in question.

 

[Legend5555]

PLO/NLHE dealer's choice weekly for the last 7 years with the same exact people in question.

Maybe it's time to branch out into Limit games? Tall order for some groups I know.

 

[Eloe2000]

Maybe it's time to branch out into Limit games? Tall order for some groups I know.

That is actually how I started back in the 90's. No one else shares my affection for them though

 

[Marc Hedrick]

@Marc Hedrick was it you that thinks we should be able to bet Pot in a NL game? Damnt, getting old sucks.

I think "pot" is a number and therefore a valid bet. However as @ChaosRock referred to earlier, the problem is that in a self dealt home game, who's responsibility is it to know the pot size? If I bet pot I better be able to figure out what it is, otherwise I have no business betting "pot".

I'm aware this is an opinion that isn't in line with the rules of NLHE---Just how I feel it should be.

 

[mike32]

I think "pot" is a number and therefore a valid bet. However as @ChaosRock referred to earlier, the problem is that in a self dealt home game, who's responsibility is it to know the pot size? If I bet pot I better be able to figure out what it is, otherwise I have no business betting "pot".

I'm aware this is an opinion that isn't in line with the rules of NLHE---Just how I feel it should be.

I’ve made the same argument as Marc. I know I’m wrong but I have always felt the pot is a number, therefore it is a bet. Many times in both NL and PL games I just estimate my bet anyway to keep things moving. I have enough to worry about in my mind already without always knowing exactly what is in the pot.

 

[Legend5555]

I’ve made the same argument as Marc. I know I’m wrong but I have always felt the pot is a number, therefore it is a bet. Many times in both NL and PL games I just estimate my bet anyway to keep things moving. I have enough to worry about in my mind already without always knowing exactly what is in the pot.

The online pot button has ruined it for all of us.

 

[Coyote]

@Eloe2000 if you are host (and even if not) I would make a habit of sitting in one of the middle seats and start stacking up the chips in the pot so that everyone gets used to it being done.

I do this all the time, man, and, happily, the habit has been spread among most of my crew

 

[Payback]

*Provided you are not at a casino where a rake is being paid for dealer services*
It is clearly rude to assume that someone else should be servicing you by counting the pot for you. It is also rude to not know approximately what is in the pot when you make a pot wager. Your players have the right to be a bit annoyed at the offending lazy player who isn't at least approximating the pot bet size verbally. The onus is always on the betting player to know and/or determine the pot size. The table should check/confirm the amount is correct. Rounding the pot to the nearest dollar is a must. That said, at many home games you will likely have a player or playing-dealer that generally knows what's in the pot at all times. When I'm dealing/playing, I generally know the count and will tell players when they bet the pot. That said, a polite "thank you", fetching a drink, or tossing a chip to show appreciation if always a nice gesture. I've been at a meetup or two where some players are fairly rude and treat me like they would treat a paid dealer (i.e., not paying attention, not pushing bets into the pot when prompted, not making efforts to speed the game). I generally stop providing a count, stop organizing/pre-splitting the pot, stop dealing, and fairly quickly change tables. Problem solved....

You don't say? The worst I had was someone laying into me for making a mistake... I think I was 10 hours into dealing for the table at that point. I took a long walk after that.

 

[Gobbs]

Obssessive-compulsive-anal-"Nazi" pot organizer here
Ideally, a dedicated (non-playing) dealer could/should announce the pot at every betting round, even in NLHE, IMHO.

Not only should a dealer not announce the pot in NLHE, the dealer should NEVER count the pot. If asked how much is in the pot, the dealer should never answer. The most the dealer should do is spread the pot a bit.

 

[Coyote]

Not only should a dealer not announce the pot in NLHE, the dealer should NEVER count the pot. If asked how much is in the pot, the dealer should never answer. The most the dealer should do is spread the pot a bit.

Yeah, I (or anybody else dealing) don't announce the pot in NLHE, but I still stack it neatly and have inspired the others also do so.

 

[Gobbs]

Yeah, I (or anybody else dealing) don't announce the pot in NLHE, but I still stack it neatly and have inspired the others also do so.

For NLHE, the pot should never even be stacked. It’s the player’s responsibility to remember the bets and know how much is in the pot. The Dealer’s Handbook is extremely clear about this point and you will never see professional dealers doing that. You really aren’t doing your players any favors by doing it in a home game and I think by doing so, you really minimize the usefulness of an important poker skill.

 

[MatB]

i'd like to hear the reasoning of why dealers aren't supposed to count the pot in NLHE. I'm niether for it or against it, but to say "dont do it" because its in a handbook, leaves me wanting to know.

 

[Gobbs]

i'd like to hear the reasoning of why dealers aren't supposed to count the pot in NLHE. I'm niether for it or against it, but to say "dont do it" because its in a handbook, leaves me wanting to know.

It’s the player’s responsibility to remember the bets and know how much is in the pot.

 

[MatB]

After a quick google search, it seems the default answer is like you said. "players responsibility'

Feels like there should be something more substantive there, but hey.. is what it is.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

After a quick google search, it seems the default answer is like you said. "players responsibility'

Feels like there should be something more substantive there, but hey.. is what it is.

I agree that it's the player's responsibility. But I don't see how that equates to banning the counting of the pot in a friendly home game. After all, its not like the chips disappear after they are bet. Call clock if its taking too long, I guess?

 

[MatB]

I agree that it's the player's responsibility. But I don't see how that equates to banning the counting of the pot in a friendly home game. After all, its not like the chips disappear after they are bet. Call clock if its taking too long, I guess?

Thats what i'm saying, i'm sorta indifferent to it, but at the same time most poker 'rules' have a reason behind them, this one just falls flat a little.

For it to be dutifully executed by every professional dealer too.

I think if someone just explains it to me like i'm 5 years old, it will make sense....

 

[Rhodeman77]

i'd like to hear the reasoning of why dealers aren't supposed to count the pot in NLHE. I'm niether for it or against it, but to say "dont do it" because its in a handbook, leaves me wanting to know.

My best argument for it is like remembering folded cards in Stud or other games that have face up individual cards. You wouldn’t want the dealer to tell someone what seat 8 folded on 4th street either. Or who was the initial better preflop. This is all useful information that everyone had available to them and if you forgot it then that is my advantage. Knowing how much is in the pot is useful information.

If you want to deny someone you think is drawing to a straight the correct odds to call, knowing how much is in the pot is crucial to making the right sized bet. If a player misjudged that amount they could give someone drawing a very good price.

 

[Rhodeman77]

A friend of mine that is a dealer at the local casino was telling me that in the limit O8 game they have to split the pot as they rake it even if a low is not possible so that if a player doesn’t realize it they don’t get that information from the dealer by only having 1 stack of chips. They don’t want the dealer to potentially influence action. Announcing the pot size could influence action in NLHE.