If it’s not for profit, $10-$20 a person is more than an enough to get beer pop chips and pizza.
A raked game is def for profit, and mostly bc ur going to be covering some short term debts and your in it for for the $.
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Considering starting up my game again with rake (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Freeroll
- Start date
A raked game is def for profit, and mostly bc ur going to be covering some short term debts and your in it for for the $.
Chips523
Two Pair
I go to several games that rake. Both provide food, snacks, beer, soda, water, and coffee. The atmosphere, tables and chips are high quality. Great games they only take $2 a hand cash game 10 player max.
Some have a hard enough time getting there on time after work. Let alone bring food. It keeps the game going. To host over and over again is real work if the host see's a few extra bucks it's not a lot.
Same Players different day in a lower staked game bring food and play without a rake. Some already want the rake and have told the host to take it into consideration. After all his countless expenses and years of dealing with poker maniacs or squirrels as I've read on here before.
After years of playing. Then finding PCF, I suggested we pull money for Tina's. They said if Tina's a stripper yes. Then proceeded to laugh when I told them custom chips! They want dice chips so be it! Raked isn't always bad as long as it's not over hot coals.
Some have a hard enough time getting there on time after work. Let alone bring food. It keeps the game going. To host over and over again is real work if the host see's a few extra bucks it's not a lot.
Same Players different day in a lower staked game bring food and play without a rake. Some already want the rake and have told the host to take it into consideration. After all his countless expenses and years of dealing with poker maniacs or squirrels as I've read on here before.
After years of playing. Then finding PCF, I suggested we pull money for Tina's. They said if Tina's a stripper yes. Then proceeded to laugh when I told them custom chips! They want dice chips so be it! Raked isn't always bad as long as it's not over hot coals.
Only $2 a hand isn’t a rake. Great host!!! Now double the rake and get him some THCS
RadicusScout
Flush
Chips523
Two Pair
In order to get the game started I supplied the table chairs and (RHC's). The group wanted a higher staked game and a nice spot and that's what it took. Only 2 bucks a hand and me to supply tables, chairs, and chips. I have fun every week and a chance to win money.
Without the host I'm at the casino 30 miles away and raked harder. I have to buy all meals and drinks that aren't comped.
Some people should not play this game at all a bunch of people trying to limp in the pot with aces.
I have thought a lot about this myself as I’m renovating my new place and will have a place for a table again.
i think the stakes matter a lot. I play in a game where a standard buy in is 30$ I’m not charging them 20$ for beer and snacks? They bring their own booze and I have extra beer to sell at cost.
Other game I play in has buyins ranging from 300-1000$ if I host that game I need a dedicated dealer, food and alcohol is provided, I think a entry fee is fair then but I don’t like rake unless it is dealer who rakes something small every hand and that is their salary.
i think the stakes matter a lot. I play in a game where a standard buy in is 30$ I’m not charging them 20$ for beer and snacks? They bring their own booze and I have extra beer to sell at cost.
Other game I play in has buyins ranging from 300-1000$ if I host that game I need a dedicated dealer, food and alcohol is provided, I think a entry fee is fair then but I don’t like rake unless it is dealer who rakes something small every hand and that is their salary.
TheYeti
3 of a Kind
If you are only "raking" for consumables, why not calculate your costs for that night, then take $1/$2 per pot until you are made whole, and after that no more rake for the night? Seems fair to me.
That being said, since I've been hosting my monthly game I have never taken a rake. I put out a donation bucket and at the end of the night sometimes it equals more than I spent on consumables for the night, sometimes less. I don't have any problem with that at all.
That being said, since I've been hosting my monthly game I have never taken a rake. I put out a donation bucket and at the end of the night sometimes it equals more than I spent on consumables for the night, sometimes less. I don't have any problem with that at all.
I think a $10 door fee feels more palatable to players than a $2 per pot rake. Unless you're going all out on the supplies (pricy liquor, meals beyond cheap pizza/hot dogs) it should cover your costs. Assume you have 2 tables, 8 players per table, 20~25 hands per hour, we're looking at $80~100/hr via raking, or $160 flat in door fees. I would come up with a list of materials you expect to buy for a game and count out how much it costs. I suspect your game cost will end up closer to $160 than the $400ish you might get in rake for a 4~6 hour session.
I guess my question is… If the game you were dealing for couldn’t get enough players, what would you do differently to make sure it goes off?
In my area, the pool of players is pretty limited. I see a lot of the same faces at the handful of games I play in/host regularly. Hosts are always recruiting, but it is rare for a totally new face to enter the regional poker ecosystem.
It does happen occasionally for me — usually one of my regs (or me) meeting someone at a casino or circuit event who lives in the area but wasn’t aware of anything but the (pretty dismal) firehouse tourneys.
Not doubting your ability to pull together a game, just curious about how you would manage unless you’re in a big city or suburb.
In my area, the pool of players is pretty limited. I see a lot of the same faces at the handful of games I play in/host regularly. Hosts are always recruiting, but it is rare for a totally new face to enter the regional poker ecosystem.
It does happen occasionally for me — usually one of my regs (or me) meeting someone at a casino or circuit event who lives in the area but wasn’t aware of anything but the (pretty dismal) firehouse tourneys.
Not doubting your ability to pull together a game, just curious about how you would manage unless you’re in a big city or suburb.
P.S. I recently changed something up slightly in my 2/5 cash game to cover food/drink in a way that is optional and therefore slightly less rake-y.
When the flop is monotone (say, all diamonds) we do an optional $25 bomb pot. From that, $25 is removed and applied to the food/drink.
This tends to happen roughly every 45-60 minutes on average. Once the grub and booze are covered we stop.
Anyone who wants to sit out can, but I’ve only ever had one person do that (older lady with a bit of an odd personality).
I’ve tried other methods, including voluntary donations or taking $20 from large pots over $400 until the food is paid for. The donations were so-so because some people were way more generous than others while a few were very cheap or forgot. The big pot rake was kind of good because winners tended to pay for the rest, and no one complains about $20 when scooping a $750 pot… But this way seems to be working best and I like that it is optional.
When the flop is monotone (say, all diamonds) we do an optional $25 bomb pot. From that, $25 is removed and applied to the food/drink.
This tends to happen roughly every 45-60 minutes on average. Once the grub and booze are covered we stop.
Anyone who wants to sit out can, but I’ve only ever had one person do that (older lady with a bit of an odd personality).
I’ve tried other methods, including voluntary donations or taking $20 from large pots over $400 until the food is paid for. The donations were so-so because some people were way more generous than others while a few were very cheap or forgot. The big pot rake was kind of good because winners tended to pay for the rest, and no one complains about $20 when scooping a $750 pot… But this way seems to be working best and I like that it is optional.
Very clever!
OP
OP
Freeroll
Two Pair
I never really had a problem getting players at my game.
The game I deal at is significantly higher stakes than my game ($5/$5 vs $1/$1), so that plays a big part in their player shortage.
I mean, for the purpose of covering food/drink costs, it doesn't feel like the juice is worth the squeeze. I don't think local law enforcement will give a rip about your opinion, in the unlikely event your game was busted. You never know, any manner of reasons someone can get pissed off at the game and decide to take it out of you since the game is raked.
I have a friendly monthly game, $200 buy-in, one table. We will have $3-5K on the table on any given night after rebuys. I supply the room and equipment and hot dog/buns. Everyone brings their own beverages. I've never raked and would never consider it. Like others have said, it would change the vibe and I don't want that.
In your case, the game would be new so the vibe is yet to be determined, so I suppose you've got the opportunity to set it the way you want to. Let us know what you go with!
quintooo
Flush
the bigger problem with rake is it takes money off the table. It unfairly affects the winners yes, but less money off the table means the losers can't win back their money.
losers not being able to win back their money means they eventually stop coming
I think rake kills games.
RocAFella1
Royal Flush
BYOHD
Jimulacrum
Full House
I'm not a fan of raking home games. A home game is like a party you host for your friends. Once you start raking, you're crossing a line into a different type of game. As others have said, the players start feeling less like guests in a friend's home and more like customers paying for a service at a business.
With that will likely come gripes, demands, lack of respect for your home/property, and players who stop attending expressly because of the rake. People will do the math and figure out how much you're pulling down, and find reasons (legitimate or not) to be dissatisfied with the exchange. It will also chip away at your player pool / economy by swinging some of your modest winners and breakeven players into losing territory. And I know you're not concerned about legality, but you may become concerned someday if a player gambles beyond his means and starts looking at ways to take it out on you, whereas without the rake he'd have no legs.
Another concern: Presumably you're going to be playing in these games. Are you generally a winning player? From the OP, it seems this may be the case (you suggested grinding as an income source). If so, think about how that looks from other players' perspectives. You're basically pleading poverty to justify the rake while getting paid to play cards in your own home.
Alternatively, consider using some kind of voluntary mechanism to raise funds. Hard to say what would mesh with your game's culture/structure, but I'm thinking along the lines of "Show 'em" chips, paying a fee for rabbit hunts, tokens that let you play a hand of double-board on your button (assuming you're normally doing NLHE, which I don't know), stuff like that. Something that people will consider a trivial expense for a fun/interesting twist. The gains could add up.
With that will likely come gripes, demands, lack of respect for your home/property, and players who stop attending expressly because of the rake. People will do the math and figure out how much you're pulling down, and find reasons (legitimate or not) to be dissatisfied with the exchange. It will also chip away at your player pool / economy by swinging some of your modest winners and breakeven players into losing territory. And I know you're not concerned about legality, but you may become concerned someday if a player gambles beyond his means and starts looking at ways to take it out on you, whereas without the rake he'd have no legs.
Another concern: Presumably you're going to be playing in these games. Are you generally a winning player? From the OP, it seems this may be the case (you suggested grinding as an income source). If so, think about how that looks from other players' perspectives. You're basically pleading poverty to justify the rake while getting paid to play cards in your own home.
Alternatively, consider using some kind of voluntary mechanism to raise funds. Hard to say what would mesh with your game's culture/structure, but I'm thinking along the lines of "Show 'em" chips, paying a fee for rabbit hunts, tokens that let you play a hand of double-board on your button (assuming you're normally doing NLHE, which I don't know), stuff like that. Something that people will consider a trivial expense for a fun/interesting twist. The gains could add up.
Depends on the rake and the stakes, no?
If there is $150 reserved for three pizzas, two orders of wings, salad, candy, popcorn, beer, soda etc. out of $10-$12K on the table, I’m pretty sure the “rake” isn’t going to prevent a stuck player from getting back in the black.
Exactly the same, except I don’t hold parties for my friends 25 times per year.
quintooo
Flush
verrrry true. I think a $2 rake could kill a 1/1 game though but i don't actually know, just guessing and from my experience with other hosts that rake their game, their games eventually die.
Sometimes it’s the rake but it’s usually 80% of players are not profitable and for a game to be consistent it needs to run once a week imho. After awhile people don’t like losing money. It’s why the .50-$1 games last forever. Losing $25-$50 a week is manageable.
Raked games are going to be $1-$2 at minimum. Losing $200/week isn’t sustainable.
grandmeme
Flush
I mean, if you're dealing, and your buddies/partner are dealing too, just work for tips? We have a dedicated dealer too and he pulls around $50 an hour just from tips alone. No rake needed. More than enough to cover drinks, food, etc especially if you're dealing more than 1 table.
justsomedude
Royal Flush
Jimulacrum
Full House
Totally fair point. This is part of why I tip hosts on my way out.
Munchies11
Pair
Yes we do the tip the host kind of thing basically the hosts costs gets covered and sometimes and then some. We all know how hard it is to host so it’s only fair he gets compensated. We only play with friends so our friend would never take a rake every hand and if he tried he would be chirped to the end of time lol every circumstance is different though. If it’s more of a community or back alley game sure I can see why there are rakes. If you’re playing with the fellas no chance
legend672
Full House
Confucius say He who fart in church, sit in pew
Perhaps controversial, but I have no issue with a raked game. Two bucks is cool; that's about 45 bucks an hour. I wouldn't say it's just to cover food because a six-hour session is going to be a bit more than food costs.
What I take exception with is
Judaism cites taking interest on loans as one of the most egregious sins or immoral acts. I think taking a rake is comparable to tax or interest. The best case for an argument is a non sequitur, meaning it doesn't apply. I'm not judging here, I'm making a point that its not a good, or pro argument in this context.
The issue I have with taking a rake is:
The $2 a hand would be 300 bucks over 6 hours. Lets say you have a dedicated dealer, and instead of 22 hands an hour, they are putting out 18 hands an hour, that's $36 an hour, at 6 hours that $216, lets say your players buy in for 100 call it 900 bank, that is 24% of the bank. Now lets say your players tip, $1 (avg) a hand, that is $108 more off the table, that's 324 out of 900 gone, leaving $576 on the table.
Oh sure you left out ppl rebuying that would raise the money in the bank, sure but the game is likely to last longer as well.
If you spread a game where no one can beat the game aka leave winner, you'll end up without a game, or canceling
20 out of 23 games.
It doesn't matter how nice your equipment is, if I can't fade the action, I'll be happy with my name on the list.
I'm not opposed to rake, but I think minimum stakes should be 1/1, and you need about 30 to 40 players to host a single raked game.
Consider a seat fee or rake up to $200 to cover food costs. I tried this once. The problem is that if you get pinched, the legal fees
and complications outweigh the rake.
What I take exception with is
I don't think not taking a rake is immoral.
Judaism cites taking interest on loans as one of the most egregious sins or immoral acts. I think taking a rake is comparable to tax or interest. The best case for an argument is a non sequitur, meaning it doesn't apply. I'm not judging here, I'm making a point that its not a good, or pro argument in this context.
The issue I have with taking a rake is:
The $2 a hand would be 300 bucks over 6 hours. Lets say you have a dedicated dealer, and instead of 22 hands an hour, they are putting out 18 hands an hour, that's $36 an hour, at 6 hours that $216, lets say your players buy in for 100 call it 900 bank, that is 24% of the bank. Now lets say your players tip, $1 (avg) a hand, that is $108 more off the table, that's 324 out of 900 gone, leaving $576 on the table.
Oh sure you left out ppl rebuying that would raise the money in the bank, sure but the game is likely to last longer as well.
If you spread a game where no one can beat the game aka leave winner, you'll end up without a game, or canceling
20 out of 23 games.
It doesn't matter how nice your equipment is, if I can't fade the action, I'll be happy with my name on the list.
I'm not opposed to rake, but I think minimum stakes should be 1/1, and you need about 30 to 40 players to host a single raked game.
Consider a seat fee or rake up to $200 to cover food costs. I tried this once. The problem is that if you get pinched, the legal fees
and complications outweigh the rake.
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