Christy & Jones? (1 Viewer)

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Hello,
I am wondering if these chips can be identified as Christy and Jones? I did some quick reading on the mold and read where the HC have a shine to them. I noticed this on the Moose Lodge chips. The Lodge is located in Oklahoma, not sure if this is relevant to identifying the chip.

Also is it a knock on the chips if they are C&J chips?

IMG_1978.JPG


IMG_1979.JPG


IMG_1980.JPG
 
C&J TH&C chips, as well as the early years Paulson TH&C chips until the eary-mid '70's, were made by the Burt Co ( >ASM>CPC) ..
I would definitely say there is no "knock" on the chips for sure ...
My question is I never hear about early Paulson chips with shiny hats ..
I wonder if many ( or all) shiny-hat chips are just being attributed to Christie & Jones when they may be Post C&J early (Burt) Paulsons ....
 
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C&J TH&C chips, as well as the early years Paulson TH&C chips until the eary-mid '70's, were made by the Burt Co ( >ASM>CPC) ..
I would definitely say there is no "knock" on the chips for sure ...
My question is I never hear about early Paulson chips with shiny hats ..
I wonder if many ( or all) shiny-hat chips are just being attributed to Christie & Jones when they may be Post C&J early Paulsons ....
They don't feel like a Burt Co. chip. I had thought Burt Co. Portland ASM came from the same lineage and Christy Jones / Bud Jones/ Paulson came from another, if that makes any sense.
 
They don't feel like a Burt Co. chip. I had thought Burt Co. Portland ASM came from the same lineage and Christy Jones / Bud Jones/ Paulson came from another, if that makes any sense.
To the best of my knowledge All C&J & early Paulson chips were made by Burt, until Paulson started their own Mfg process ..
Perhaps @BGinGA may chime in with info ....
 
To the best of my knowledge All C&J & early Paulson chips were made by Burt, until Paulson started their own Mfg process ..
Perhaps @BGinGA may chime in with info ....

Your probably correct. I have nothing to back up what I thought.
 
Almost positive these are C&J chips. The top hat indentations are deeper and polished smooth so they’re shiny. The shape of the top hat also differs from the Paulson top hat shape ever so slightly - taller hat and longer cane. In my experience C&J chips are also usually a little bit lighter in the 8g range vs leaded Paulson hot stamps being 9-11g. They have a bit different “clink” sound when shuffling more akin the the sound of CPC chips than the Paulson “clack”.

Definitely not “inferior”, just a little different, still look and feel great.
 
This might explain the hot stamp $25s I bought recently. They seemed off for Paulsons and a barrel won’t fit in a rack just like ASM. I’ll have a closer look at them later today and see if they are like these.
 
I wonder if many ( or all) shiny-hat chips are just being attributed to Christie & Jones when they may be Post C&J early (Burt) Paulsons ..
According to Jim B (conversation I had with him at this year’s convention), this is correct. The shiny-hat mold was used for a bit after C&J dissolved.
 
Only way to tell apart a THC chip sold by C&J and those sold by Paulson in their early years is by the date it was produced. They were both made by Burt Co. and are otherwise identical.

They are also lighter, slightly thicker, and slightly larger diameter than thc chips later produced by Paulson.
 
Nice chips!

Although they are LCV and appear to have shiny hats, I think these were made by Paulson. Without a date it will be tough to confirm, but I do not recall seeing any C&J chips that are light blue in color. It seems almost pastel in the picture. Also that yellow, seems a little more pastel as well. All of the blue C&J's that I have seen are dark blue or Navy. C&J's color options were pretty basic compared to what Paulson offered.

The on on the left is pretty much the lightest blue i have seen in C&J.


 
^ Agreed, although I think you meant "made for Paulson", or "sold by Paulson". I don't think any Paulson-produced THC/LCV mold chips had shiny hats. That seems to be a byproduct of the Burt Co. dies and manufacturing process.
I think these were made by Paulson.
 
Nice chips!

Although they are LCV and appear to have shiny hats, I think these were made by Paulson. Without a date it will be tough to confirm, but I do not recall seeing any C&J chips that are light blue in color. It seems almost pastel in the picture. Also that yellow, seems a little more pastel as well. All of the blue C&J's that I have seen are dark blue or Navy. C&J's color options were pretty basic compared to what Paulson offered.

The on on the left is pretty much the lightest blue i have seen in C&J.


Thanks for the information! The yellow chips is the one I was questioning. I should have been more clear on my op.
 
Thanks for the information! The yellow chips is the one I was questioning. I should have been more clear on my op.

My bad. I didn't notice the blue ones were Short Canes. I just figured they were the same. The yellow ones could be. It is kind of hard to see the shade clearly in the pic. If its more pastel yellow, then I would say Paulson.

I have seen 2 types of C&J yellows, one was like below and another was a more darker mustard color. I can't find my scan of my sample at the moment.




 
My lighting sucks but this shows the color a little better. The red chip also has the shiny hats.

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^ Agreed, although I think you meant "made for Paulson", or "sold by Paulson". I don't think any Paulson-produced THC/LCV mold chips had shiny hats. That seems to be a byproduct of the Burt Co. dies and manufacturing process.

Thanks! You are correct, i meant made for Paulson by Burt.

My notes on the Hat & Cane mold says that Burt made H&C chips for Paulson from 1964 to around 1979.


My lighting sucks but this shows the color a little better. The red chip also has the shiny hats.

View attachment 132156

Looking at it in that light, the Red and Yellow don't look like C&J colors.

The C&J red seems to be more of a sharper (if that makes sense) red.

 
Thanks! You are correct, i meant made for Paulson by Burt.

My notes on the Hat & Cane mold says that Burt made H&C chips for Paulson from 1964 to around 1979.




Looking at it in that light, the Red and Yellow don't look like C&J colors.

The C&J red seems to be more of a sharper (if that makes sense) red.

Thanks again for your time and information!
 
My notes on the Hat & Cane mold says that Burt made H&C chips for Paulson from 1964 to around 1979.
Not saying you are incorrect, but I could never get the time frame confirmed any tighter than 1964-1965 to 1975-1979. We should compare notes one day. :) And sitting down with JimB would be a huge bonus -- I think he still has many of the old Burt Co. records.

Regarding colors, didn't the same colors get used by Burt for both the C&J and Paulson chips? Although the C&J chips used far fewer colors..... In other words, a specific color chip might be able to be determined to have been made for (or later, by) Paulson -- because C&J didn't sell them -- but some chip colors were made by Burt Co. for resale by both companies, and one cannot tell which by color alone.
 
Not saying you are incorrect, but I could never get the time frame confirmed any tighter than 1964-1965 to 1975-1979. We should compare notes one day. :) And sitting down with JimB would be a huge bonus -- I think he still has many of the old Burt Co. records.

I got the 1964 date from an article written by Gene Trimble. Gene's article states the following:
" Bill Christy and Pat Sullivan took the shiny hat CJ mold in the breakup and not long after the breakup Paulson took over the mold. Per Jim Blanchard of the Burt Company Paulson sold more shiny hats than Christy Jones sold while in business for 13 years. The 1st Paulson H&C molds were sold in 1964. They sold both CJ H&C and regular H&C's at the same time."

C&J started in 1952. There may have been a 1-2 year overlap of Paulson vs C&J as I have C&J closing up shop in 1965. I wonder why they would have let Paulson use their mold? No idea unless they charged Paulson for it. I have notes that Paulson Dice & Card Company was founded in 1963 by Paul Endy, Jr.

Still looking for the source of my 1979 ish date. I do have a note that Paulson moved production to Mexico in 1982.

Yeah it would be very cool to sit down with JimB.

Regarding colors, didn't the same colors get used by Burt for both the C&J and Paulson chips? Although the C&J chips used far fewer colors..... In other words, a specific color chip might be able to be determined to have been made for (or later, by) Paulson -- because C&J didn't sell them -- but some chip colors were made by Burt Co. for resale by both companies, and one cannot tell which by color alone.


Related to the chip colors, you are right in that the C&J colors were also used by Paulson when the chips were made by Burt. But I think Burt/Paulson added a bunch of colors during the 10+ years after they took over the mold. I have a lot of C&J Sample chips and also C&J chips in my Nevada collection and the C&J color's are more muted. I think the newer colors are more brighter. Not sure if the color formula changed or if they just added more colors, perhaps a combination of both.

So in summary, if we don't have the mfg record or the mfg date range of the chip and the color is the same as known C&J's chips (eg like the Red on the Chesterfield above), we won't be able to tell if its a C&J or Paulson chip made by Burt.

But if the color of the chip doesn't match the other C&J chips as identified both by either a samples chip and known C&J chips, then we can make a educated guess and say it is probably made by Burt for Paulson. Not quite as definitive but at least there is a basis.

For example the below LCV is kind of a lighter pink color that I have not seen in known C&J's chips. C&J has a pink, but its much darker. This chip is listed as made in 1976. Pic from the Chip Guide:

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Here is a green C&J chip that is listed as made in 1964 and my sample chip (bad scan) is the same color:

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Here is a chip that without knowing the date, I would deduce that based on the brightness of the green (the C&J green is muted like above), it was probably made by Burt for Paulson. As per the Chip Rack, this chip was made in 1970, we know its not a C&J based on that date (even though its listed as a C&J H&C on the Chip Guide). It sure looks like a C&J though. Since the Club didn't open until 1970, we know it was made after C&J closed.


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I know its not exact science and I would prefer manufacture records or other type of confirmation, but at least its an educated guess. ;)
 

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