Hey All...I need some help!!!
My work, a charity organization thought it would be a great idea to organize a poker tournament to raise money. The problem is that the people in charge haven't ever played a hand in their life. I knew by the flyer sent out that they had a limited background and naturally offered my assistance. They were grateful and I had a meeting with them last week to go over terms (like blinds, structure) to assist them and provide them a few pointers to try and move thing in a direction to help. Their goals besides raising money are to have them be a long term thing and attract a lot of the local players to assist in getting their name out. From what they provided me thus far I explained that this would not be the end product so they went back and made revisions. As another issue they hired a local company to be the TD, table, chair, dealer provider for the evening and this company (whom I've dealt with before) is pretty scummy. I have a feeling that this revisions inclusions of rebuys etc. came from them, but am not sure.
What I'm looking for is feedback to provide to the people running this in the most constructive way possible. I can be pretty blunt about things and was the first time around I "came in like a wrecking ball" /Miley Cyrus and while they appreciated the feedback and realized how much work needed to be done, would probably hate to see my initial thoughts about the most recent changes. Below is what they have sent with my comments and matching down at the bottom.
Event Check-in/Registration: Entry is limited to the first 200 players who register.
Regular entry fee: $200 for players and $50 for spectators. Beer, wine, soft drinks and buffet dinner is included in the entry price. Dinner begins at 5:00 P.M.
Optional entertainment: There will be cash tables set up for players no longer in the tournament[BS1] . There will also be an exciting Silent Auction that closes at 9:00 P.M., as well as a 50/50 Raffle for the evening.
Start Time: Tournament begins at 6:00 P.M. All players should be registered and seated by 5:45 P.M.[Conclusion of the tournament is at 11PM or 5 hours]
TOURNAMENT STRUCTURE (see NOTE below)
This tournament is a No-Limit, Single-Elimination, Texas Hold’em Poker Tournament with multiple re-buys[BS2] . All floor director decisions are final. Poker Tournament Directors Association rules shall apply if there are any questions. Players shall be moved by tournament volunteers to different tables during any round to maintain a balanced number of players at each table and ensure fair and even play.
The Tournament will begin at 6:00 pm sharp and will last until there is one (1) winner. Every player will begin with a 10,000 chip count. At the onset, blinds will progress in the following increments every 20 minutes.
Re-buys and Add-on: There will be an opportunity at registration for a player to purchase ONE 5,000 chip “instant” add-on prior to the start of play for $50[BS3] . This option only is allowed before the start of play. There is also the opportunity for multiple re-buys until the end of the 20 minute break following the 600/1200 Blind Level. A player can purchase as many re-buys as they like, but only when their chip count is below 7,500. Players can make re-buys only at the BANK located on the east side of the poker room floor. Players may purchase a 10,000 chip re-buy for $100. The dealers shall provide the players with a re-buy ticket for the re-buys to present at the Bank. [BS4] In addition, beginning with the start of the tournament and ending after the 20 minute break following the 600/1200 Blind Level, EVERY player in the room regardless of chip count, can make ONE 5,000 chip add-on for $50. Each dealer will distribute to each player one add-on ticket at the beginning of the tournament.
Blind level 1 - Blinds will progress in the following increments every 20 minutes. Players will keep their chips with them for the entire tournament.
BLINDS
100/200
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
600/1200
20 Minute BREAK so tournament staff can color up
and
players can make “FINAL” re-buy and add-on purchases.
Blind level 7 - Blinds will progress in the following increments every 20 minutes.
BLINDS
1000/2000
2,000/4,000
3,000/6,000
4,000/8,000
5,000/10,000 with 500
10,000/20,000 with 1,000
10 Minute Break
THE FINAL ROUNDS[BS5] When the nine (9) finalists have been determined they will be moved to the championship table where they will compete for the $15,000 in Cash and Gift Cards. Blinds for this round will progress in the following increments every 25 minutes.
BLINDS
15,000/30,000 with 15,000 chip ante[BS6]
20,000/40,000 with 20,000 chip ante
25,000/50,000 with 25,000 chip ante
30,000/60,000 with 30,000 chip ante
FINAL TABLE PRIZES (Based on 200 entries – prizes can be adjusted based on final player count)
1st Place – $10,000 ($700 in cash and $9,300 in gift cards chosen by the Winner at conclusion of play)
2nd Place – $3,000 ($700 in cash and $2,300 in gift cards chosen at conclusion of play)
3rd Place – $2,000 ($700 in cash and $1,300 in gift cards chosen at conclusion of play)
(Gift cards are customized and can be from as many as three (3) different sources[BS7] . They will be provided to the winners within one week’s time of the Tournament date.) [BS8]
NOTE: We reserve the right to alter the structure prior to the start of the event. We also reserve the right to alter the blinds as necessary to speed up tournament play.
[BS1]I would include information about the cash games in a separate note, or at the bottom of this. Stakes, buy in, games, and rake structure.
[BS2]This is contradictory to the initial flyer and from our initial discussion which was that the tournament was a freezeout one. A rebuy tournament let’s you buy back in when you go bust, whereas a freezeout tournament is when you are done when you bust. As a first time event, and to make things easier I would leave it as a freezeout.
[BS3]Where is the money for this going? Dealers? Charity? Back into the prize pool?
[BS4]Are the dealers or the bank collecting the money?
[BS5]There is no guarantee that you will be at 9 players for these rounds.
[BS6]This is an astronomical jump in antes. Antes are something that you pay every and not every orbit like blinds. They typically are a few % of the blinds.
[BS7]Where to?
[BS8]This section is where I have the biggest issues as a player.
From our last conversation we were looking at about a 50% “rake” (percentage coming out of the prize pool to host the event + go to charity), which was already on the high side. With the addition of the rebuys and add on components (and no mention of any of that additional money coming back to the players) this increases that rake ~70+% which is unsustainable.
Regarding the payouts It’s fine if you want to stick to a top heavy payout, but generally its better for the longevity of an event to payout more places and customary in a big field to at least payout the final table as that is quite a feat to make. I also think this would assist with working with your $500 cash + buy in rule (Also buy ins could now be a lot higher as I could rebuy 2, 3 or 20 times, so that would make me eligible for a lot more cash back should I win according to the laws. Ex. I rebuy 5 times at $50 + $200 buy in is $450 plus the $500 on top so I could legally take home $950. Who would track that?)
Personally I would extend the payouts to the final two tables if you get 20 starting tables (200 players) and payout something like $250 for 20th, going up to like $500 minimum for making the final table. This puts you under the $500 profit in cash rule and distributes a lot of cash back to the players.
Right now that is going to be the biggest turnout for the local players is that the organization is taking in $30,000 cash (with rebuys and addons that number could be $50,000) and only distributing back $15,000 of which $2,100 is in cash and $600 of that is players initial buy in). I think that is going to turn away a lot of potential players or make them not want to return the following year.
Again this is all from the perspective of a local player rather than that as a member of the organization.
My work, a charity organization thought it would be a great idea to organize a poker tournament to raise money. The problem is that the people in charge haven't ever played a hand in their life. I knew by the flyer sent out that they had a limited background and naturally offered my assistance. They were grateful and I had a meeting with them last week to go over terms (like blinds, structure) to assist them and provide them a few pointers to try and move thing in a direction to help. Their goals besides raising money are to have them be a long term thing and attract a lot of the local players to assist in getting their name out. From what they provided me thus far I explained that this would not be the end product so they went back and made revisions. As another issue they hired a local company to be the TD, table, chair, dealer provider for the evening and this company (whom I've dealt with before) is pretty scummy. I have a feeling that this revisions inclusions of rebuys etc. came from them, but am not sure.
What I'm looking for is feedback to provide to the people running this in the most constructive way possible. I can be pretty blunt about things and was the first time around I "came in like a wrecking ball" /Miley Cyrus and while they appreciated the feedback and realized how much work needed to be done, would probably hate to see my initial thoughts about the most recent changes. Below is what they have sent with my comments and matching down at the bottom.
Event Check-in/Registration: Entry is limited to the first 200 players who register.
Regular entry fee: $200 for players and $50 for spectators. Beer, wine, soft drinks and buffet dinner is included in the entry price. Dinner begins at 5:00 P.M.
Optional entertainment: There will be cash tables set up for players no longer in the tournament[BS1] . There will also be an exciting Silent Auction that closes at 9:00 P.M., as well as a 50/50 Raffle for the evening.
Start Time: Tournament begins at 6:00 P.M. All players should be registered and seated by 5:45 P.M.[Conclusion of the tournament is at 11PM or 5 hours]
TOURNAMENT STRUCTURE (see NOTE below)
This tournament is a No-Limit, Single-Elimination, Texas Hold’em Poker Tournament with multiple re-buys[BS2] . All floor director decisions are final. Poker Tournament Directors Association rules shall apply if there are any questions. Players shall be moved by tournament volunteers to different tables during any round to maintain a balanced number of players at each table and ensure fair and even play.
The Tournament will begin at 6:00 pm sharp and will last until there is one (1) winner. Every player will begin with a 10,000 chip count. At the onset, blinds will progress in the following increments every 20 minutes.
Re-buys and Add-on: There will be an opportunity at registration for a player to purchase ONE 5,000 chip “instant” add-on prior to the start of play for $50[BS3] . This option only is allowed before the start of play. There is also the opportunity for multiple re-buys until the end of the 20 minute break following the 600/1200 Blind Level. A player can purchase as many re-buys as they like, but only when their chip count is below 7,500. Players can make re-buys only at the BANK located on the east side of the poker room floor. Players may purchase a 10,000 chip re-buy for $100. The dealers shall provide the players with a re-buy ticket for the re-buys to present at the Bank. [BS4] In addition, beginning with the start of the tournament and ending after the 20 minute break following the 600/1200 Blind Level, EVERY player in the room regardless of chip count, can make ONE 5,000 chip add-on for $50. Each dealer will distribute to each player one add-on ticket at the beginning of the tournament.
Blind level 1 - Blinds will progress in the following increments every 20 minutes. Players will keep their chips with them for the entire tournament.
BLINDS
100/200
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
600/1200
20 Minute BREAK so tournament staff can color up
and
players can make “FINAL” re-buy and add-on purchases.
Blind level 7 - Blinds will progress in the following increments every 20 minutes.
BLINDS
1000/2000
2,000/4,000
3,000/6,000
4,000/8,000
5,000/10,000 with 500
10,000/20,000 with 1,000
10 Minute Break
THE FINAL ROUNDS[BS5] When the nine (9) finalists have been determined they will be moved to the championship table where they will compete for the $15,000 in Cash and Gift Cards. Blinds for this round will progress in the following increments every 25 minutes.
BLINDS
15,000/30,000 with 15,000 chip ante[BS6]
20,000/40,000 with 20,000 chip ante
25,000/50,000 with 25,000 chip ante
30,000/60,000 with 30,000 chip ante
FINAL TABLE PRIZES (Based on 200 entries – prizes can be adjusted based on final player count)
1st Place – $10,000 ($700 in cash and $9,300 in gift cards chosen by the Winner at conclusion of play)
2nd Place – $3,000 ($700 in cash and $2,300 in gift cards chosen at conclusion of play)
3rd Place – $2,000 ($700 in cash and $1,300 in gift cards chosen at conclusion of play)
(Gift cards are customized and can be from as many as three (3) different sources[BS7] . They will be provided to the winners within one week’s time of the Tournament date.) [BS8]
NOTE: We reserve the right to alter the structure prior to the start of the event. We also reserve the right to alter the blinds as necessary to speed up tournament play.
[BS1]I would include information about the cash games in a separate note, or at the bottom of this. Stakes, buy in, games, and rake structure.
[BS2]This is contradictory to the initial flyer and from our initial discussion which was that the tournament was a freezeout one. A rebuy tournament let’s you buy back in when you go bust, whereas a freezeout tournament is when you are done when you bust. As a first time event, and to make things easier I would leave it as a freezeout.
[BS3]Where is the money for this going? Dealers? Charity? Back into the prize pool?
[BS4]Are the dealers or the bank collecting the money?
[BS5]There is no guarantee that you will be at 9 players for these rounds.
[BS6]This is an astronomical jump in antes. Antes are something that you pay every and not every orbit like blinds. They typically are a few % of the blinds.
[BS7]Where to?
[BS8]This section is where I have the biggest issues as a player.
From our last conversation we were looking at about a 50% “rake” (percentage coming out of the prize pool to host the event + go to charity), which was already on the high side. With the addition of the rebuys and add on components (and no mention of any of that additional money coming back to the players) this increases that rake ~70+% which is unsustainable.
Regarding the payouts It’s fine if you want to stick to a top heavy payout, but generally its better for the longevity of an event to payout more places and customary in a big field to at least payout the final table as that is quite a feat to make. I also think this would assist with working with your $500 cash + buy in rule (Also buy ins could now be a lot higher as I could rebuy 2, 3 or 20 times, so that would make me eligible for a lot more cash back should I win according to the laws. Ex. I rebuy 5 times at $50 + $200 buy in is $450 plus the $500 on top so I could legally take home $950. Who would track that?)
Personally I would extend the payouts to the final two tables if you get 20 starting tables (200 players) and payout something like $250 for 20th, going up to like $500 minimum for making the final table. This puts you under the $500 profit in cash rule and distributes a lot of cash back to the players.
Right now that is going to be the biggest turnout for the local players is that the organization is taking in $30,000 cash (with rebuys and addons that number could be $50,000) and only distributing back $15,000 of which $2,100 is in cash and $600 of that is players initial buy in). I think that is going to turn away a lot of potential players or make them not want to return the following year.
Again this is all from the perspective of a local player rather than that as a member of the organization.
