SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
Milano, are good majestic have 50c
Cash Game Cash poker design (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bluffhunter
- Start date
I do the exact same thing.I think 20 chips per denom per player is plenty. When I host .25/.50, I do a $60 max and my starting stacks are:
20x .25
20x $1
7x $5
If I were to do $100 max I would do
20x .25
20x $1
15x $5
Here’s my typical $60 starting stack
SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
@Bluffhunter missed out on the Great 8V blowout. Unless he wants pink,purple, brown,and white chips.
I play $.25/.50 generally, but have played $1/2. For .25/.50 NLHE, I generally do a $60 max buyin to start the game, but increase the allowable max after a few rebuys to allow people to buyin for more (to compete with the larger stack sizes that develop as more people rebuy).
A Poker game has several parameters that define it:
The Blinds $.25/.50 for instance (the blinds are compulsory bets which drive action). Most bets are based somewhat on a ideal factor of the blinds (3x, 4x, 5x) or the size of the pot thus far in the hand... These numbers can define how big the game gets, how much people are wagering.. If the blinds are .25/.50, and someone opens for 4x ($2) and you get 3 people call, the pot is now $8-ish. On the flop, people will make betting decisions based on the size of the pot. In a $1/2 game in the same scenario, the pot would be $32. So in the first smaller game after the flop, you bet $8 (full pot) and people might fold weaker hands or draws. In the larger game, someone bets $8 into a pot of $32 and everyone will likely call.. further bloating the pot. So blinds define the size of the game to a big degree.
Poker is a game about math in a big way. You ever watch TV poker, where they have percentages to win the hand, like one player has 65%, another has 35% equity? So, if a pot is $20, and I have a big draw that probably has 33% chance to win, and my opponent bets $5 (1/4 pot), I'm getting direct odds to make a proper call. If they bet $20 (100% pot), and I only win 1/3 of the time, it's proper to fold. There are other factors, but that just one mathematical component, and why blinds and pot size drives bet sizing, and why bet sizing is important.
The Starting Stacks. As defined by the number of big blinds, starting stacks have a profound impact. Many casinos that run $1/3 cap their max buyins at $300 (or 100bbs). In my home game with $60 buyin, this is 120bb, so bigger than most casinos allow. However, when I do meetups, I up my buyins to $100 (200 bbs). Many people prefer a larger stack to start (but these people are degenerates, in most cases, and want more money on the table). Larger amounts of money on the table create bigger games, duh... So if you choose to start with larger stacks, expect a larger game.
The Players. Your game can play big or small (regardless of your blinds) based on your players... If you have degenerate players who insist on bloating pots (every hand) and straddling, and making huge oversized bets, then your game will play huge. If you have more passive players, who limp in, don't continually raise and re-raise, then your game might play smaller... Players and their desire to gamble will have a huge impact.
This ^^^ My breakdown as well. If I were sticking to a $50 buyin, I'd probably lower my blinds to $.25/.25, but I'd suggest you just up your buyins to $60 (3 twenty dollar bills, it's easy) and go with $25/.50 blinds.
As for chips, I don't have any $.50 chips in my main sets, because I either play $.25/.50 or $1/2... But if I wanted to play $.50/1, I could do so with a few quarters used for the small blinds. Not a big deal. Just gives me flexibility. And I'm a firm believer that efficient chip sets almost always progress 4-5x the amount of the chip before it... $.25, $1, $5, $25, etc... A $.50 and a $1 is ..."ok" in a set, but not ideal for maximum efficiency.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Bluffhunter
High Hand
Do you still have that breakdown of the bank for cash game? not sure if my bank is correct
Based on the info I have gathered so far I have the following breakdown of chips for each game
.50/.50, 100BB, $50 buy in, 40 chips
5 x $5
15 x $1
20 x $.50
.50/.50, 120BB, $60 buy in, 46 chips
6 x $5
20 x $1
20 x $.50
.50/.50, 200BB, $100 buy in. 62 chips total
12 x $5
30 x $1
20 x $.50 /ncv chip
.25/.50, 100 BB, $50 buy in, 45 chips
5 x $5
20 x $1
20 x $.25
.25/.50, 120 BB, $60 buy in, 47 chips
7 x $5
20 x $1
20 x $.25
.25/.50, 200BB, $100 buy in, 55 chips
15 x $5
20 x $1
20 x $.25
Bank:
300 x 0.25 chips
300 x 0.50 chips
300 x $1 chips
250 x $5 chips
Last edited:
I host a meetup, with three tables of degens. It’s the only reason I have 300 quarters in my set.
If hosting one table, I do like 20 quarters to start for each player... (requires 200 quarters). BUT I think we can easily play with 100 quarters for each table... that means for YOUR set, I’d stick to ONE rack (100) quarters, if you choose that route...
you could easily use quarters to play a $.50/1 game. So if you get quarters, I’d skip the $.50 chips. CPC chips are expensive, so make your purchase most efficient... I’d rather spend my chip budget money on more useful chips (like more $1 or $5 chips) than buy chips that are redundant. If you choose to make your lowest stake $.50/.50 or $.50/1, then skip the quarters and get 100x$.50.
In choosing a set breakdown, as others have said, you need to determine stakes, number of players, amount of possible rebuys, etc to calculate the total “bank” necessary. Then you want to figure out the number of chips each player will have in their starting stacks, and purchase enough chips to make that happen. Then purchase chips to be used in rebuys...
So for 10 players at $.25/.50 with $60 buyins (and what I think are your preferences towards lots of low denom chips) I’d go with one of these options:
Large budget (lots of room for expansion)
$.25 x 200
$1 x 300
$5 x 400
$25 x 100
1000 chips
Minimum budget
$.25 x 100
$1 x 200
$5 x 280
$25 x 20
600 chips
If hosting one table, I do like 20 quarters to start for each player... (requires 200 quarters). BUT I think we can easily play with 100 quarters for each table... that means for YOUR set, I’d stick to ONE rack (100) quarters, if you choose that route...
you could easily use quarters to play a $.50/1 game. So if you get quarters, I’d skip the $.50 chips. CPC chips are expensive, so make your purchase most efficient... I’d rather spend my chip budget money on more useful chips (like more $1 or $5 chips) than buy chips that are redundant. If you choose to make your lowest stake $.50/.50 or $.50/1, then skip the quarters and get 100x$.50.
In choosing a set breakdown, as others have said, you need to determine stakes, number of players, amount of possible rebuys, etc to calculate the total “bank” necessary. Then you want to figure out the number of chips each player will have in their starting stacks, and purchase enough chips to make that happen. Then purchase chips to be used in rebuys...
So for 10 players at $.25/.50 with $60 buyins (and what I think are your preferences towards lots of low denom chips) I’d go with one of these options:
Large budget (lots of room for expansion)
$.25 x 200
$1 x 300
$5 x 400
$25 x 100
1000 chips
Minimum budget
$.25 x 100
$1 x 200
$5 x 280
$25 x 20
600 chips
This thread has been very entertaining. And this is truly good advice.
Buy decent chips. Get better at poker. Buy better chips. Repeat.
@Bluffhunter, if you do decide to go with the Outlaws while you work on your CPC customs, just get 100 each of the .25's and the .50's. It will only cost you $16 extra, and you can try each in games to see what works better for you.
Lol I disagree. It might work, because that’s what they’re used and don’t know any better. I think if he’s trying to implement a better structure, just ditch the idea of redundancy in chip denominations from the start. Go with a more efficient game plan from the beginning. Otherwise it might confuse an already easily confused player pool...
Good point!Lol I disagree. It might work, because that’s what they’re used and don’t know any better. I think if he’s trying to implement a better structure, just ditch the idea of redundancy in chip denominations from the start. Go with a more efficient game plan from the beginning. Otherwise it might confuse an already easily confused player pool...
OP
OP
Bluffhunter
High Hand
The outlaw .50 chip is a lot nicer chip than the .25 one, but if no one gets .50 and I rarely see any custom cpc sets with .50 maybe I shouldn't buy it.
The issue is, a lot of the players want to limp in pre flop to see the flop. I've read that people should be doing 4xbb preflop when they are on bb, and I never see that in our game. From time to time someone throws in one or two chips pre flop. I worry that they might run out of the .25 chips quick if they keep limping in hand after hand.
They can always just make change, but if it's true there are that many limpers all the time, you could bump up how many .25 chips players start out with.
In fact, dare I say, you may want to look at a limit game?
Jezzus, don’t confuse the issue, lol. Limit, lol. Allegedly they already get the concept of NL (possibly).
I actually think 100 quarters would be plenty (especially for 8 players. Gives everyone 12 to start. If everyone limps, (which is pretty bad play for what’s its worth), you still have enough quarters.
And as already stated, if someone runs out of quarters, they can just call with a $1 chip, then get change from the pot (once all the action has completed).
Oh, and you seem to be married to the outlaw chip? Don’t. You want to experience a good number of chips. They’re all a tad diffeeent in feel, looks, etc. there are plenty of low end chips that work well, especially if this really is just a fill-in until your CPC chips arrive in a few months. Might be the outlaw chip is your final choice.. it’s really just a temp setup so don’t let that alter (affect) your desired game structure too much.
For cheapies, I like the nexgen pro chips. They have $1/$5/$25 chips for around $.15 each and are plastic, but don’t have the metallic slug. They also have a non-denim blue chip that could be used for $.25 or .50.
Here’s one link I found for them. Again, cheap. Probably don’t hold too much value. But much better than dice chips. Actually these are my personal favorite plastic chip. But everyone has different tastes. 600 chips for under $100...
http://www.pokerchipmania.com/nexgen-poker-chips/9g-pro/
Last edited:
We blew past confused 2 days ago.
OP
OP
Bluffhunter
High Hand
Thanks I saw those before, problem is the red is sold out and want to get chips in for next week for a poker party I am hosting.
I have ordered lots of samples to see which chips I like. The outlaws I like since they feel good and are cheap until I get something better.
SeanGecko
4 of a Kind
This is an example of “getting samples!”
I’ve heard nothing but good about the outlaw chips.
I’m planning a relabel with these to a 5c,25c,$1,$5
Attachments
Sigh... and coupled with the OP’s complete inability to comprehend the first two pages of advice from members here, I’m wondering how someone could amass such a collection of samples, includeing a CPC color samples, and not know about small and big blinds (or antes) or any of the dozen other commonly known poker facets.
Now I’m starting to think this might actually have been an elaborate troll thread... something doesn’t smel right.
Just in case this isn’t a troll thread. There is more than one online supplier of those chips.
OP
OP
Bluffhunter
High Hand
Think you said that 3x already. I play mostly with guys from Europe, some of them don’t even speak English. For past 5 years we have always played this way. We used dice chips and never seen a chip with a “$” sign. If you were to come there and explain how the cash poker should be played, they would look as confused as you are when I explained how we play. I can try to teach them the proper way, but there is very high chance they will all be confused and just say "Let's play how we always played because it seemed to worked for the past 5 years, so why change it now?"
When we play poker we don't communicate in English, the terms I learned yesterday such as flop, turn, river are never used. We simply say "show the cards, show the next card, show last card."
I had to google UTG, as I didn't know what that meant when I was reading another post. This forum is not so friendly to people who played differently and who are unfamiliar with the strategy and poker lingo. I didn't see any sticky that explains poker definitions, strategy etc. Even in strategy forum, I didn't see any sticky post to help new players.
This forum is like the other one I am member at "Mike Holt forum" where everyone there is master or licensed electrician, and members wouldn't advise or help anyone unless you are one of them. If you went there and asked how to feed and switch a 4 way, how to wire 200A Service disconnect or if you need arc fault breaker for kitchen lights, your post would simply get ignored or you would be called a troll.
I came across the forum looking for chips. I was not interested in any other thing but to buy better chips, so I ordered lots of samples. At some point members kept saying CPC, I had no idea what CPC means, even when I googled I couldn't figure it out, after a while someone said classic poker chips and I made the connection. I ordered sample from them and since 2-3 weeks I was working on my chip design. In the meantime I started reading other parts of the forum and was confused about the tournament (which I had no idea how to play or how it works till this day) and Cash games. So I made this post to get more information and help with chip breakdown. I realized I made a mistake. I shouldn't have made the post as I am not well versed in poker strategy and lingo, therefore I must be a noob or troll.
I bought Outlaws today as I am throwing party on the 12th so couldn't delay it anymore, didn't know there are other vendors. Didn't have samples of those chips so I just got the ones I had sample of.
@Bluffhunter Thank you for your post. I am sorry you feel less welcome. The fact you dont speak English while playing explains a great deal, as I can see the terms we use might not be familiar with someone who might not have English as their primary language.
My last comment about your thread being a troll was probably in bad form. I was very surprised at how very well you’ve done in the samples department. In fact, it was the sample collection I’d expect from someone who’s been in the poker game for a bit, or at least familiar with poker. So for you to exhibit such unfamiliarity with basics of poker. Yet have such an advanced “sample” game was a bit of a non-sequitur (oddity), it just didn’t seem to fit. Kudos to you for doing it right when it comes to getting samples.
As much as we have been critical of your current setup, we have also spent many hours these last few days typing up advice for you in hopes to improve YOUR game. I’ve persoanlly typed everything out on my iPad or phone (not easy). People have given you time out of their busy lives in order to help. It sounds like you’ve learned a great deal. That’s is awesome.
As for the chips you’ve purchased, enjoy them. I’ve never said they were bad or unworthy. If you decide to create a CPC set, please allow the members to help you design a great set. There is a lot of knowledge here, and you simply do not know the things you need to know. Everything has a purpose, from edge spots, to base colors, and how they can coordinate, improve the playability of your game, or make it harder (with chips that either blend in with each other, or colors that’s clash). So, when you get in the mode to create/design a set, please post pics of your mockups (using the CPC design tool, it’s easy to save the mockups as an image)... post the pics here for feedback on colors, design choices, and optimal set numbers... I spent over two years designing, saving, and planning my Fat Tire Cash set. I posted countless mockups of various chips along the way. The members offered valuable advice (even though I was alreadyy fairly knowledgeable), which helped me get the best set, and best numbers for MY particular game.
My last comment about your thread being a troll was probably in bad form. I was very surprised at how very well you’ve done in the samples department. In fact, it was the sample collection I’d expect from someone who’s been in the poker game for a bit, or at least familiar with poker. So for you to exhibit such unfamiliarity with basics of poker. Yet have such an advanced “sample” game was a bit of a non-sequitur (oddity), it just didn’t seem to fit. Kudos to you for doing it right when it comes to getting samples.
As much as we have been critical of your current setup, we have also spent many hours these last few days typing up advice for you in hopes to improve YOUR game. I’ve persoanlly typed everything out on my iPad or phone (not easy). People have given you time out of their busy lives in order to help. It sounds like you’ve learned a great deal. That’s is awesome.
As for the chips you’ve purchased, enjoy them. I’ve never said they were bad or unworthy. If you decide to create a CPC set, please allow the members to help you design a great set. There is a lot of knowledge here, and you simply do not know the things you need to know. Everything has a purpose, from edge spots, to base colors, and how they can coordinate, improve the playability of your game, or make it harder (with chips that either blend in with each other, or colors that’s clash). So, when you get in the mode to create/design a set, please post pics of your mockups (using the CPC design tool, it’s easy to save the mockups as an image)... post the pics here for feedback on colors, design choices, and optimal set numbers... I spent over two years designing, saving, and planning my Fat Tire Cash set. I posted countless mockups of various chips along the way. The members offered valuable advice (even though I was alreadyy fairly knowledgeable), which helped me get the best set, and best numbers for MY particular game.
@Bluffhunter , welcome to the forum! I think I was in your position a few months ago when i joined - I had no idea what chips to get or how to play poker properly. I had to mug up on the terminology and as a result my game got a hell of a lot better. It sounds like your game is a chill affair and if someone who know what they’re doing sat down they’d probably take all your money. When my lot started playing we also used to all limp to see the flop until one of the better players just started punishing us so we all had to get better.
Congrats on the outlaws, they’re my first set also. Great value for money.
Stick around, there’s lots of fun to be had chipping and your poker game is likely to improve also!
Congrats on the outlaws, they’re my first set also. Great value for money.
Stick around, there’s lots of fun to be had chipping and your poker game is likely to improve also!
Mental Nomad
Full House
As if counting 55 chips doesn't take any effort? Your inventing effort where there is none.
If we're using 50c chips, and I bet $27.50, you can either:
1. Stack up my chips and match the stacks. This is true whether the 50c chips say 50c on them or not.
2. You can count off one stack of 5 chips, and make 10 matching stacks. Again, this is true whether the chips say 50c or not.
3. You can but out 11 chips which are worth $2.50 each. This is the same as 11 chips of "5 chips." (Which requires multiplying 11 x 5 for you.)
4. You can count out 2 chips worth $10 each, 2 chips with $2.50, and 5 chips worth 50c. Or 2 chips of "10", 2 chips of "5," and 5 chips of "1.
You don't actually do any multiplication differently because of the denominations.
By the way, you should be aware that 55 chips is an illegal bet in a standard game.
You are playing for $1. Two 50c chips is $1, and your big blind is two chips. This means your minimum bet/raise should be multiples of $1. The minimum bet/raise is 2 chips, and incremental bets/raises are 2 chips, except for all-ins.
Think about your example above. You say the issue is they’d have to do multiplication to figure out how many chips are in a $27.50 bet... couldn’t the player betting just say 55 ***quarters*** instead then no one has to do “multiplication”? Or say I bet 20 $1s?
Think about it this way - if you bought denominated chips and scratched off all the “$” signs, the absolutely ONLY difference between what your describing and using actual dollar values is... that your players have to divide the chip values you use by 2 anytime they want to know how much actual cash they’re betting/winning/losing etc.
The fact your system doesn’t actually avoid ANY of the concerns you have about players needing to do multiplication or figuring out numbers and actually makes it slightly more difficult to figure out the actual amount of $$$ bet/win/lost/in their stack, is why people think you’re trolling them.
@Mental Nomad is pretty much saying the same thing in a different manner. If you want to do it how you’re doing it then by all means do it... but if you can’t see that you’re just making it slightly more complicated than it has to be... I just need to walk away.
Hats off to you though if this is a troll your just very committed to though... cause I’m so tilted I’m typing from the floor rn.
Last edited:
The only thing you ever have to know about chip value is what each color equals. You can easily run games with unmarked chips as long as you say X color=1, Y color=5xX and Z color =5xY. Everything else is window dressing.
Mental Nomad
Full House
Blinds do not have to be 1x/2x, as others have mentioned. The following are all common:
25c/25c
25c/50c
50c/50c
50c/$1
$1/$1
$1/$2
$1/$3
$2/$5
Technically, there don't have to be two blinds! In a short-handed game, there's nothing wrong with using a single blind.
And in a 10-player game, you used to be able to find 50c/50c/50c blinds, and $1/$1/$1. (These have mostly gone away.)
The only requirement is that they be posted blind (before the player sees their cards).
Your current game, with 1/2 blinds using 50c chips, is effectively a $1 game. If your players enjoy playing that level with 50BB, it's fine for them to keep playing that way. It's 'short stack' for poker theory purposes, but you're not obligated to change your game - some people love to play short stack (going all-in is correct more often when you play short stack.)
I've hosted a lot of $1 games with a set of Paulsons I have. Here are the breakdowns I used for years; they work GREAT. People buy in for whatever amount they want (everyone can be different.)
.50/$1, 50BB, $50 buy in, 28 chips
4 x 50c
18 x $1 ($20 total, so far.)
6 x $5
.50/$1, 60BB, $60 buy in, 30 chips
4 x 50c
18 x $1 ($20 total, so far.)
8 x $5
.50/$1, 100BB, $100 buy in, 38 chips
4 x 50c
18 x $1 ($20 total, so far.)
16 x $5
The set I use for this game only has 20 50c chips and 160 $1 chips.
So, the first 5 people to buy in get the chips I described above... the next three get:
.50/$1, 50BB, $50 buy in, 26 chips
20 x $1 ($20 total, so far.)
6 x $5
.50/$1, 60BB, $60 buy in, 28 chips
20 x $1 ($20 total, so far.)
8 x $5
.50/$1, 100BB, $100 buy in, 36 chips
20 x $1 ($20 total, so far.)
16 x $5
After eight people have bought in (or there has been a rebuy), nearly all the $1 are gone. The next buy-ins get:
.50/$1, 50BB, $50 buy in, 20 chips
10 x $5
.50/$1, 60BB, $60 buy in, 20 chips
12 x $5
.50/$1, 100BB, $100 buy in, 20 chips
20 x $5
You should have realized the pattern, by now... no matter what they want to buy in for, they get:
$20 in small chips, the rest in $5 chips.
And when I run low on small chips, all they get is $5 chips.
This set only has 160 $5 chips! So when those run out, everyone cheers and I start bringing in $25 chips.
If someone wants to buy $20 more, and there are no $5 chips left, I just give some player a $25 chip and take five $5 chips back... and then I can can handle the $20 buy-in. Everyone is always happy to get a $25 chip. Those are the ones they don't want to give up.
This is the entire set:
Bank:
20 x 0.50 chips
160 x $1 chips
160 x $5 chips
160 x $25 chips
(Total bank $4970)
500 chips total. For eight players, this works out just fine.
(By the way, if you shop for a chip case online, you'll notice most cases fit 500 chips. Funny? Or Obvious? You can fit the whole set in your case.)
If playing 10 players, I prefer to have 200 x $1 and 200 x $5. (Total of 20 on the table per player.) But it's completely fine with 160 of them.
Also, some people like to have more $5 chips and fewer $25 chips, but I don't - my players like to see the $25s hit the table. Sometimes, that doesn't happen. If I had more $5 chips, it would happen less often. (Or we'd have to do it before we run out of $5 chips, which isn't as fun, because nobody cheers.) If you'd like to have more $5 chips, this would be a perfectly good set:
20 x 0.50 chips
200 x $1 chips
200 x $5 chips
80 x $25 chips
(Total bank $3210)
Or some chips are purchased in 25 chips rolls:
25 x 0.50 chips
200 x $1 chips
200 x $5 chips
75 x $25 chips
(Total bank $3087.50)
Both fit perfectly in a 500-count case.
Last edited:
With so many $25s you have a big bank ($4970). How often do you need it to be that deep? I tend to want to have more $5s in play but I've not had to have $4k in $25s available. I've gone the route of having 20 $25s and 10 $100 and filling the rest with $5s. Even then, it's rare to have black chips in play but I'm sure that's a function of my game likely not playing deep like yours.
Mental Nomad
Full House
For the $1 bb game, never. But that set was built with the idea that $1 is the smallest game it supports.
Yes, in the set I use for micro games (25c and 50c bb games), I have more $5s... But the players will often ask for the bank chips on rebuys because they like them on the table.
But I did not use my Paulson $1 set as an example to say that he needs that many $25.
I used that set as an example to make clear that it works very well for a $1 bb game with only 160 $1 chips and 20 50c chips. @Bluffhunter was initially expecting to buy many hundreds of 50c chips.
Mind you, I won't say that is wrong - some people love having lots of small chips, especially if playing limit poker. But he's playing NL, and all those excess small chips just slow down the game.
OP
OP
Bluffhunter
High Hand
I didn't know that. I had a feeling when people would throw just 1 chip, it shouldn't be like that. They did mostly just to be annoying.
With the beginning stack breakdown as proposed by many people here, you wouldn't have 55 quarters. This means your $27.5 bet would be made of combination of different chips values. I said previously that counting 55 chips is easy, someone mentioned different ways you can quickly put 55 chips and I know that. When we play we don't think in terms of "how much $$ am I betting" we all think in terms of chips, "how many chips is in the bet etc". I know NOW that this is not good idea when implementing different strategies and trying to figure it out your % chance to win or to count different ratios.
We convert the $ into chips at the beginning of the game, and then we play in terms of chips. When we run out of chips, we buy more for cash. At the end of the night, we convert the chips back into $ and we get that cash from the bank.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Bluffhunter
High Hand
This has been very informative post. Thank you. I will copy/paste some of the info on breakdowns to my MS word file on poker
Everyone’s point here is that converting the money into chips with an abstract value doesn’t make it any simpler when figuring out how much to raise or call. Whether it’s a bet of 7 chips with the value of 5 or 7 $5 chips, it’s the exact same process for another player to figure out how many chips they need to call. The only difference is - by using chips with a $ value, your players would no longer have to use division or multiplication to figure out how many $ they’re actually betting or calling.
Just to clarify, whether you use chip values like in a tournament or specific $ values in a cash game, the odds are the same.
Hope you think about trying out $ values once, I think you and your players will be pleasantly surprised!
Create an account or login to comment
You must be a member in order to leave a comment
Create account
Create an account and join our community. It's easy!
Log in
Already have an account? Log in here.
Similar threads
