Cash Game Cash and Tourney breakdown (1 Viewer)

[Marhault]

Ok so while my custom set is being designed I wanna sit down and determine exactly the number of chips I need to order. I want to cover the gambit. I want to have micro stakes (0.05/0.10) all the way up to 250k tourney chips. Size is not a constraint here. I want enough for everything.

Cash breakdown
$0.05
$0.25
$1.00
$5.00
$25.00

Realistically that's all I need. I could maybe throw $100 in there but we typically only play cash at one table of 10 guys. And I'm hoping to have some cross over between the 2 with the $25 and $100 I guess. Usually buy in is minimum 50 BB, max 100 BB to keep things friendly. Unlimited rebuys though. It never gets too hairy. About half buy in for 50 half for 25 but by the end of the night most people are in for 50-100 at most. So never too heavy.

Tourney breakdown
$25.00 (crossover from cash as well)
$100
$500
$1,000
$5,000
$25,000
$100,000
$250,000 (why the hell not)

So typically I run tourneys of 20+ never more than 40. We've been running 40k starting stacks lately with
15x 100
3x 500
12x 1,000
5x 5,000
But we run anywhere from T10k to T40k. 10k starting with 25/50. 40k starting with 100/200. Don't want to order then wish I'd ordered more. The chips will be coming from sunfly so I only want to pay those shipping charges once. I don't want to just blanket order hundreds of chips I'll never use so that's why I've detailed my play scenarios here. All of these formats are used multiple times a year, sometimes multiple times a month so I want to have them available for all contingencies.

I will over order too for breakage, loss, samples, etc but I want you breakdown geniuses to help me get a baseline of the minimum chips I'll need.

 

[Darson]

First rule of PClubF is: Get samples
Second rule of PClubF is: Never mix cash and tourney sets

Now having said that, make your largest cash chip $20.

Now 10 players with $100 max buy-in = $1000 bank.
5c x 100
25c x 100
$1 x 200
$5 x 80
$20 x 20
500 chips, 1030 bank. Or make it two racks of $5 and a rack of $20 for 700 chips, $3,230 bank.

 

[Marhault]

First rule of PClubF is: Get samples
Second rule of PClubF is: Never mix cash and tourney sets

Now having said that, make your largest cash chip $20.

Now 10 players with $100 max buy-in = $1000 bank.
5c x 100
25c x 100
$1 x 200
$5 x 80
$20 x 20
500 chips, 1030 bank. Or make it two racks of $5 and a rack of $20 for 700 chips, $3,230 bank.

Why not mix? Seems like an easy way to save chips.

 

[Darson]

Why not mix? Seems like an easy way to save chips.

Until one of your tourney players takes a T25 and adds it to your cash game - unlikely, yes, but an ounce of prevention etc...

 

[Marhault]

Also I thought it was clear but I guess it wasn't. We won't be using micro stakes and higher on the same night. Like if we micro it will be for 5 dollar min and 10 dollar max buyin. Where .25/.50 would be a completely different game so we wouldn't be using the nickels that night.

 

[Marhault]

Until one of your tourney players takes a T25 and adds it to your cash game - unlikely, yes, but an ounce of prevention etc...

Touche. Well noted. So $20 for the cash. Good call.

 

[Coyote]

On a more sober and pragmatic note, which is impressive for myself , I 'd say
.10
.50
$1
$5
$20
for cash

AND
T25, T100, T500, T1000 and T5000 for Tourney. Yes, T20,000 or 25,000 if 40 players.

Don't ever use tourney chips for cash games (unless if it were a Single Table Tournament with family and childhood friends). Still NOT under the same roof in the same evening, simultaneously or consecutively.

 

[Marhault]

On a more sober and pragmatic note, which is impressive for myself , I 'd say
.10
.50
$1
$5
$20
for cash

AND
T25, T100, T500, T1000 and T5000 for Tourney. Yes, T20,000 or 25,000 if 40 players.

Don't ever use tourney chips for cash games (unless if it were a Single Table Tournament with family and childhood friends). Still NOT under the same roof in the same evening, simultaneously or consecutively.

We hardly ever play both in the same night and when we do I have plenty of other cash sets I can use.

 

[Darson]

For your tourney set, I'm no expect in MTT but you first need to establish the max number of player and the estimated max number of rebuys then go from there.

 

[Marhault]

For your tourney set, I'm no expect in MTT but you first need to establish the max number of player and the estimated max number of rebuys then go from there.

Max is 40 and probably 20 rebuys. Absolute max. Typical night is 20-25 with 10 rebuys.

 

[Gobbs]

Don't ever use tourney chips for cash games (unless if it were a Single Table Tournament with family and childhood friends). Still NOT under the same roof in the same evening, simultaneously or consecutively.

Let me fix that.

If you use tourney chips for cash games, or cash game chips for tourneys, it’s quite easy to pocket a $25 chip or two during a tourney (with very little impact on the tourney) and then stealthily re-introduce the chip(s) during a cash game the next month. Yes, you will hopefully notice the chips missing at the end of the tourney night, but what are you going to do about it? It’s much easier to not have to deal with it or tempt people.

As far as saving money, you’re already spending big bucks on the car. Why try to save a few dollars by getting a cheap radio in it?

 

[Mr Winberg]

For your tourney set, I'm no expect in MTT but you first need to establish the max number of player and the estimated max number of rebuys then go from there.

Also the starting stacks. A popular one using the T25 base is 12/12/3/7/x or 12/12/5/6/x (I prefer more T25 and T100, but I'm an anomoly). Multiply with the number of players (40) to get the totals.

For rebuys you can use higher denom chips, e.g. 2 T5000 for 10k. The player will make change at the table.

I'd use T5000 for the first few color ups and T25k for the latter, given that the total chip count is large enough to justify T25k chips. My limit is around 500000 in play but there's no rule.

You need to calculate the "worst" case scenario to know how many chips you need. Example: If the deepest you're playing with base T25 is e.g. 25000 stacks, and you opt for 12/12/3/7/3, then for 40 players you need:

12 × 40 = 480 T25
12 × 40 = 480 T100
3 × 40 = 120 T500
7 × 40 = 280 T1k
3 × 40 = 120 T5k

If you use T5k for the first three color ups, that's 3000 × 40 = 120000 you need to cover, so another 24 T5000. T1k can be colored up using T25k. 7000 × 40 = 280000, which means 12 T25k are sufficient.

T5k will likely not be colored up with 40 players and 20 rebuys.

You need to repeat these steps for a T100 base with 40k stacks. Use the maximum nr of chips per denom from each calculation as the number you need. For example, with T25 base you need 480 T100. For T100 base you might only need 400 (depending on stack breakdown). Max(480, 400) = 480, so that's what you need.

The above is only an example, you need to calculate yourself based on your preferences.

 

[Mr Winberg]

12 × 40 = 480 T25
12 × 40 = 480 T100
3 × 40 = 120 T500
7 × 40 = 280 T1k
3 × 40 = 120 T5k

A budget friendly alternative is to settle for 8/8/4/7/x when you're that many. If you use that breakdown when 27 or more, and the original breakdown when 26 or less, you "only" need 320 each of T25 and T100, but 160 T500. Still, that saves you 280 chips.

 

[BGinGA]

I can supply hard numbers later, but a typical solid single-table cash set usually contains 600 chips and 4-5 denominations (more if you are spreading games with different stakes, like 5c/10c up to 1/2, etc.). Common cash set denominations are 5c, 25c, $1, $5, and $20 ($100s may be required for larger or higher-stakes games).

Generally speaking, you roughly need (at a minimum) 100 small chips, 200 mid-range chips, 200 workhorse chips, and 100 value chips. Bigger games will require more workhorse chips, and smaller games can get by with fewer value chips. Sets that span more than one set of stakes will need more chips.

A typical decent single-table tourney set will have at at least 400 chips with 4-5 denominations. T25-base is most common, typically requiring T25, T100, T500, T1000, and T5000 denominations (no currency symbols), with T25000 chips only necessary for large fields 20+ players) or large starting stacks (T20K+).

But T100000 chips are not needed unless you start getting into events that are 60 players x T100K+ or 20+ players x T300K stack sizes, while T250K chips (not advised), or T500K chips will never see play, unless you are starting with monstrous-sized stacks (T1M+) on multiple tables using at least a T5000-base set.

And never use identical chips for both cash and tournament play. It's fine until it isn't, at which point it's too late to fix and is a major fucking mess. Just don't do it.

 

[Mr Winberg]

But T100000 chips are not needed

Which means you have some Royals to sell

 

[Polochris]

Get two sets. One for cash, one for tournaments.

 

[Isufiji]

Great discussion here guys. I never would have realized the implications of mixing cash and tournament chips set until your posts. This may be a dumb question, but if I am looking to put together a low stakes cash set, why not just use real casino chips at face value as opposed to paying top dollar for a retired set of chips?

 

[LotsOfChips]

I'm a nooby myself, so my answer may get torched, but...

Depends on your definition of low stakes. Finding fracs (.05c & .25c) might be a challenge at many casinos. If you can "harvest" all the $1 & $5 chips you need at a particular casino, then that may fill part of your set for a "reasonable" price. $20 (or $25) chips will up your average cost a fair bit. And the rarity of retired chips adds value to some.

 

[Isufiji]

As was looking at either 25c and 50c fracs, with most of the chip set being $1 and $5. I feel that would cover my needs. Maybe throw in a few $25 chips to color up chips for additional rebuys. Seems to me this would be much more economical than selling my first born for a lot of the sets out there.

 

[BGinGA]

As was looking at either 25c and 50c fracs, with most of the chip set being $1 and $5. I feel that would cover my needs. Maybe throw in a few $25 chips to color up chips for additional rebuys. Seems to me this would be much more economical than selling my first born for a lot of the sets out there.

Good luck finding live fracs. They are almost non-existent, and very hard to harvest even if found.

 

[WedgeRock]

How many live nickels are out there? I can't think of any. And there are very few casinos that use quarter fracs...

...and if you do find live fracs and can harvest them, you are most certainly talking about a mixed set at that point.

FWIW, Motor City fracs typically go for $2 to $2.25 per chip, or 8x to 9x face value. Live fracs will cost you more than face (and usually a premium over other chips), unless you can harvest them yourself.

 

[Coyote]

Let me fix that.

If you use tourney chips for cash games, or cash game chips for tourneys, it’s quite easy to pocket a $25 chip or two during a tourney (with very little impact on the tourney) and then stealthily re-introduce the chip(s) during a cash game the next month. Yes, you will hopefully notice the chips missing at the end of the tourney night, but what are you going to do about it? It’s much easier to not have to deal with it or tempt people.

As far as saving money, you’re already spending big bucks on the car. Why try to save a few dollars by getting a cheap radio in it?

I 've been slow to reply to this, because I wanted first to verify beyond any doubt that, in 32 years of hosting poker, I 've never lost a single fuckin' plastic or clay chip (in single table events, though, admittedly).
It all depends on the crowd, its provenance and its numbers.

 

[Gobbs]

I 've been slow to reply to this, because I wanted first to verify beyond any doubt that, in 32 years of hosting poker, I 've never lost a single fuckin' plastic or clay chip (in single table events, though, admittedly).
It all depends on the crowd, its provenance and its numbers.

I can reply to this extremely quickly because I already know beyond any doubt that in 32 years of being a homeowner, I have never had any major house damage. Yet, I still have house insurance and take precautions to keep my property safe.

In 36 years of driving a car, I’ve never caused a car accident, but I still buy car insurance and make sure my car is in good, running condition.

In 16 years of hosting poker, I’ve never lost a single chip or had any cheating issues (that I know of), but I still take precautions to make sure my game is safe and fair. That’s my responsibility to my players and it’s a responsibility I don’t take lightly and definitely a responsibility I do not take for granted simply because I’ve never had a problem.

When my players come into my home to play a game, I owe it to them to take every reasonable precaution to ensure they have a safe, fun, and fair experience. If auditing internal controls for the past 30 years has taught me anything it is that, just because something hasn’t happened yet, it doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

 

[Marhault]

I can reply to this extremely quickly because I already know beyond any doubt that in 32 years of being a homeowner, I have never had any major house damage. Yet, I still have house insurance and take precautions to keep my property safe.

In 36 years of driving a car, I’ve never caused a car accident, but I still buy car insurance and make sure my car is in good, running condition.

In 16 years of hosting poker, I’ve never lost a single chip or had any cheating issues (that I know of), but I still take precautions to make sure my game is safe and fair. That’s my responsibility to my players and it’s a responsibility I don’t take lightly and definitely a responsibility I do not take for granted simply because I’ve never had a problem.

When my players come into my home to play a game, I owe it to them to take every reasonable precaution to ensure they have a safe, fun, and fair experience. If auditing internal controls for the past 30 years has taught me anything it is that, just because something hasn’t happened yet, it doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

I'd like to quickly reply that in my 39 years of life...that you guys are old AF!

 

[Marhault]

I 've been slow to reply to this, because I wanted first to verify beyond any doubt that, in 32 years of hosting poker, I 've never lost a single fuckin' plastic or clay chip (in single table events, though, admittedly).
It all depends on the crowd, its provenance and its numbers.

Last post was a joke, but in all seriousness I will have to say that I've never lost a chip either in my measly 20 odd years of hosting games. I have however had 2 chips broken...poor fellas...still miss them.

 

[Coyote]

Look, to make a long story short.
The unquestionably safest solution is to never mix cash and tourney sets, other things being equal. Period.
What I have hated here is the automatic and immediate terror-inducing reactions on poor newbies on this forum, asking questions for just one set, only to be told they need at least two sets to play with their grandmas and aunts, however sensational and promiscuous the latter may be

 

[Marhault]

Look, to make a long story short.
The unquestionably safest solution is to never mix cash and tourney sets, other things being equal. Period.
What I have hated here is the automatic and immediate terror-inducing reactions on poor newbies on this forum, asking questions for just one set, only to be told they need at least two sets to play with their grandmas and aunts, however sensational and promiscuous the latter may be

I'd never take my grandma's money!

I'm hardly a newbie just a newbie to custom sets. Was just thinking trying to figure out the best way to maximize my set minimize cost.

I think I've settled into the order so many chips that it doesn't matter mode. If I get every denomination possible, order as many of them as I can afford I'll cover all contingencies!

 

[Gobbs]

I'd never take my grandma's money!

If she sat at my poker table, I would!!!!!!