Advice on a Cash Set (3 Viewers)

[Big_Bear]

So here's my thinking about ordering chips. I'd love to get any feedback from the folks on here who spend too much time thinking about stuff like this and those who have struggled through this issue. I'd love to hear about the things they wished they'd did but didn't and things they regret they didn't think about and would have done differently. I watched a few YouTubes and used the googlesheet calculator here on PCF.

I've been playing consistently for the past 15 years so I've seen a lot. I anticipate that this will be a long post. I also anticipate that talking through (typing through) my thinking will help clarify it in my own mind.

None of this factors in any minimum order on custom chips. I might buy "off the rack" stock designs, but I also have an ego and would mind my own special chips.

This discussion is for mostly NLH, but also the occasional "Dealers Choice" game (draw, omaha, down-the-river, crisscross, pineapple, etc.).

My focus is:
Order enough chips for what can reasonably be anticipated, but not too many.
Order them all at one time so that the minor variations in dye lots can be avoided/eliminated.

This is my spreadsheet:

In my discussion I'll put the references in brackets to help keep track of where and what I'm talking about.

[B4] This is for a small home friendly cash game.

[B5] I know tables will accommodate 10 players, but that gets pretty uncomfortable. Some of us are rounders and can take up some space. If for some reason we get to where we need 2 tables, I think it's really just two different cash games. I think most of the time we'll really have about 6 players, but I want to have enough for 9.

[B6] Most players buy in for $60; maybe 3 or 4 will buy in for $100. This also has generous margins for reloads throughout the game.

[B7] This is the imagined "bank" (9 players x $200).

[E4-E7] Most games will be 50¢/$1. It's reasonable to assume that we'll never need greens. It's not a casino; most players are only prepared to lose $100 (but some, more). At even 8 players, that's only $800. I included the $25's to be overly cautious. Is that necessary?

[H2] Number of players is 9

[G4-G6] This is the count for a starting stack of $100. If a player buys in for less I can adjust. I want them to have enough so that we don't have to constanty make change across the table. I also think most players want to feel like they have enough to play with.

[H4-H6] This shows the value of that imaginary $100 starting stack. So 10*.5=$5; [G4]*[E4]=[H4].

[H8] The total value of the starting chip count as calculated.

[I4-I6] This is the number I'll need. For instance, if I have 9 players and they each need 10 50¢ chips, I'll need to order 90 [I4]

[J4] This is the number of 50¢ I'll need to order. It's [I4] rounded up to the nearest 20. I can't think of a reason this would change; this should never increase.

[J5] This is the number of $1's I'll need to order. It's [I5] rounded up to the nearest 20 PLUS a few more. I think this is enough, but please correct me if I'm not thinking about this correctly. Most of the time we'll have 6-7 players and most will buy in at only$60. But I do want to accommodate those 9 $100 players for the one or twice per year that happens.

[J6] see comments for [J5] above.

[J7] Greens: again, I don't think I'll ever use these. See notes for [E4-E7] above.

[J8] Number of chips regardless of denom. Useful for figuring what size case I'll need.

[K4-K7] Calculated value of the chips. For example 50¢ x 100chips is valued at $50. [E4]*[J4]

[K8] Total value of the bank.

I keep hearing my self say "out of an abundance of caution" and "just in case." It makes me wonder if I'm ordering too many. But I also don't want to run lean (it slows the game). I'm leaning toward eliminating the greens and just ordering reds instead. If I run out of reds, I can just buy them from the big stack.

If I ordered reds instead of greens, It'd look like this:

That option would give me almost half the bank, but I think it's enough.

Please give me your feedback and opinions.


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[Machine]

There is a post and I'm trying to remember .. AH YES! here it is

New Member's Optimal Chip Break Down​

Your current break down won't cover as much as you would hope it would, and you are wasting at least a rack of 1s while short on 5s and 25s.

If you don't want to use 20s/25s that's fine, the breakdown should be:

Frac x 100
1 x 200
5 x 400

This will cover most .5/.5 tables, not mine, but most

 

[Labrat]

Personally, I think your first breakdown works well for how you describe your group.

 

[RocAFella1]

Tigers

 

[Big_Bear]

There is a post and I'm trying to remember .. AH YES! here it is

New Member's Optimal Chip Break Down​

Thanks Machine. I read that already.

BTW I like a lot of your designs I've seen here.

Anyway, I'm looking for stuff like:

"That makes sense, but I think you'll need more reds" or
"I didn't think I'd need more fracs, but people hoard them and I run short."

In other words, I get the theory. I'm just checking my logic / math.

but thanks


.

 

[Machine]

Okay so then, have you hosted 'this' game before? or do you know your players well enough to be able to guesstimate it?

I would start with a non denom frac, 1 rack
I would buy 2 racks of 1s and 3 racks of 5

frac x100
1 x 200
5 x 300

and I host the game, you can always buy more chips.

Bank is 1700
You can use the frac as .25 / .50 and if you need to you can just let 100s play and or even 20s for that matter

For my .5/.5 game I put out 60 fracs, 180 1s, and 400 5s, we get $100 to $600 in 20s in the game from time to time. My fracs play as .50, there is minimal change making.

I strongly feel that 300 1s for a single table that is NL or PL is too many. Limit is a different story.

 

[Big_Bear]

There is a post and I'm trying to remember .. AH YES! here it is

New Member's Optimal Chip Break Down​

Your current break down won't cover as much as you would hope it would, and you are wasting at least a rack of 1s while short on 5s and 25s.

If you don't want to use 20s/25s that's fine, the breakdown should be:

Frac x 100
1 x 200
5 x 400

This will cover most .5/.5 tables, not mine, but most

It sounds like your base bets are in fives and that you use the 1's as "fracs" for the reds.
I guess 20ea/person for 1's is enough.

Do you use 400 5's in a game? I ask because 600 chip cases are available; I've never seen a 700. Maybe your chips dont travel.

Thanks

 

[Kam]

Listen to the @Machine

Some thoughts and examples shared here recently for a 0.25/0.5 setup:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...-50-stakes-advice-needed.133903/#post-2728075

My initial thought is I would probably recommend going with a $0.25/$0.50 blind structure, or just make it $0.5/0.5 with your normal buy in range. I prefer a minimum 100BB buy to 200BB max buy in.

So when I do 0.25/0.5 games, it’s $50-$100 buy in. For $0.5/$1, I do $100-$200 buy in. Obviously personal preference, but I like to be a little deeper. If your frac isn’t denominated you can flex, or probably just go with 0.5 and I’d make that your small and big blind at your buy in level and you don’t need to get more fracs.

I had 3 racks of 1s, but sold off the third rack. The general sweetspot is 3x racks of $5s, but 2 works (but you’d defo need greens). I always prefer more chips, so would rather have a lot more extra $5s on the table than a few green chips.

Like @Machine said, it’ll depend on your players as well. I end up with $2k-$3.5k on the table between 0.25/0.5 to 0.5/1 stakes, but half my players are casino degens and multiple straddles/blind raises etc are the norm for them (plus they play higher stakes so rebuys aren’t a concern).

I’d probably add a rack of $20 or $25s, then you’re good if games go deep.

GL!

 

[Kam]

Tigers

Overrated unicorn chips only scrub donkeys buy ‘em.

 

[Machine]

It sounds like your base bets are in fives and that you use the 1's as "fracs" for the reds.
I guess 20ea/person for 1's is enough.

Do you use 400 5's in a game? I ask because 600 chip cases are available; I've never seen a 700. Maybe your chips dont travel.

Thanks

The game is PLO with circus games as bomb pots. The blinds are .50/.50

We don't have a lot of .50 bets post-flop, it's more likely it would be checked than .50 bet. I often do get 400 5s in the game. It started as a .25/.5

I also play in a .10/.10 game, in which we use .10, .25s and 1s is the workhorse. In this game, starting 1s for a $20 buy-in we hand out like 5 of them. Also with all of this said, don't be afraid to play .10/.10, its a blast of course we are playing circus games.

My chips have a fear of traveling, though they may make a drivable debut at some point. The case you're looking for is an apache 3800 or 4800.

I've created a line graph for your viewing pleasure, showing 1s per buy-in, as a breakdown of the per-player per-buying amount for starting chip stacks.

Essentially, at a $ 20 buy-in, you'll have 10 1s, and at a $ 200 buy-in, you'll have 20 1s.

$20 buy-in
.25 x 20
1 x 10
5 x 1

$40 buy-in
.25 x 20
1 x 15
5 x 2

$80 buy-in
.25 x 20
1 x 20
5 x 13

$100 buy-in
.25 x 20
1 x 20
5 x 15

 

[allforcharity]

You will need greens for future proofing. But as you describe your game you won't need many.
For a table of 9 we generally recommend 600 chips, but you might be able to get away with 500. You don't need many 50c fracs, I'd go 60 or even 40.

My suggestion for 500:
40x 0.50
160x $1
260x $5
40x $25
Bank 2480

You can play around with more $1 and less $5 depending on how your crew likes to construct bets, but I probably wouldn't convert more than 2 barrels.

 

[doublebooyah85]

8 racks of $5

 

[springbox]

You can get away with fewer 50c chips. Since you'll never bet more than 1 at a time it's fine for players to only have 4-6ea. I'd cut a few 1s for more 5s as well, 30 per player is a lot. Maybe like 60/240/260/40. I'd keep 20~40 greens, maybe they won't see play often but 20 chips isn't much of the budget and it'll stretch your bank if you have a rare occasion where it comes up.

 

[Sal Bandini]

The mistake I see most make when planning cash sets is focusing around the "starting stacks". By this I mean how many of each chip does each player get. This is only needed for tourneys, and even then I question it.

I believe that the questions you should ask are:
What stakes do I plan on playing?
How many at the table?
One table or multiple tables?
What's the expected or maximum bank you may see in a night?

In your instance you will have 9 max, so only 1 table. The first decision is how many fracs or SB chips you want on the table. Then you load up on the workhorse chips and then a lower amount of the higher chips. Plan the amount according to the max bank, but always add more to account for a larger amount.

Spread out the SB chips among the players, but don't worry that some get more than others, or even that some may not get any. Starting stacks would only ever be equal before the first hand anyways. That's why it is unimportant in your calculations. Another advantage of that is now players can buy in for different amounts. I hate cash games where everyone HAS to buy in for the same amount. Some people like big stacks and some like playing short stacked. Let them decide. However, that doesn't mean you let them buy in for any amount. You need to set a max, and possibly a min. Rebuys would be given in large denomination chips only, since all your smaller chips are already in play.

Regarding your denominations, I would either consider going to $1/$1 and eliminating the $.50, or getting quarters if you insist on SB being less than the BB. This way you can play smaller games if wanted. I don't like $0.50 and $1 on the table at the same time, but that is my personal preference. There is nothing wrong with keeping the $0.50 if you like that.