Tourney “WSOP Day 1” Home Tourney: thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[aaronroch]

So a friend of mine is running a one-table home WSOP satellite league this year (winner gets an entry in the WSOP main event plus $2k to defray expenses). Whoever wins will have little or no experience playing super deep stack poker for many hours.

We are thinking of trying to put together an unusual home tourney where we play through the first 5 blind levels of the WSOP. 60k starting stacks, WSOP blinds, 2 hours per level, 11am to 11pm.

Payout would be that everyone cashes out at the end proportional to the number of chips they have. (Yes, we realize that’s essentially a 10 hour cash game with 300BB starting stacks and no rebuys.).

I’m not in the league, but I think it sounds like lots of fun. We think we can get at lest 9 players, hoping for 18. We would need to buy some el-cheapo set of chips to use, none of us has a set that would support it.

Would love to hear some input from PCF. Thoughts? Advice? Does this sound stupid?

EDIT: we would love to carry chip stacks into “Day 2” on a subsequent weekend but we are assuming that few will have the willingness or ability to set aside that much time.

 

[DeeVee8]

I don’t know that this will help prep for the main. Pretty sure that if you changed it to 30 min levels, you’d finish the tourney in 12 hrs. Might be more helpful to the players.

Day 2 would be far better, imho. As far as I’m concerned, if a player can’t commit for two pre determined dates to play poker, the main is wasted on them.

 

[aaronroch]

Agreed about the 2 days, but (1) we’d like to attract some folks outside the league and (2) the main will be wasted on about 1/3 of the guys in the league.

You are correct we could arrive at a single winner with 30-minute blinds. We’re stuck on the 2-hour blind levels b/c that’s so far outside our experience.

My initial thought was also to do “Day 2”, as it would be at least a little pressure from the blinds. My co-conspirator thinks Day 1 will be more valuable b/c the disconnect between the big stacks and the small blinds the whole way through is outside almost everyone’s experience.

Interested in your thoughts of the pros vs. cons of day 1 vs day 2 both for WSOP aspirants and those of us for whom this would be “just a tourney”.

And would a halfway compromise of 1-hour blinds, days 1-2 combined be better than either?

This is obviously still at the ‘spitballing’ stage, but we have about 8 with serious interest so far for doing it on Black Friday.

 

[DeeVee8]

My worry would be that there is nearly zero pressure coming from the blinds in levels 1-5. Like you said, its a cash game. I think the value would be the players learning "when" the pressure from the blinds begins and how the game changes, and that doesn't occur very much during the levels you're planning to play.

Level 10 has you putting in nearly 10% of a starting stack each orbit, at least. 3 bets at levels 6-10 require a little more strategy. I like your idea of compressing day 1 and 2 into one session with 1 hr blinds.

For learning purposes, are 1hr and 2hr blinds THAT big of a difference? I think you still get the feel.

Sounds like a cool idea.

 

[Suited Connector]

I play in a league where we do a "Main Event Day 2" and start with the average stack and blind levels for day 2 (only 30 minute levels though). We also do a "Main Event Day 3" the same way. I have never played the Main Event but I think this is a pretty good way to prepare for it if you make it to day 2 or 3.

 

[DeeVee8]

Interesting. You could have your 2 hr blinds and run levels 1-5, cash out. Then have a Day 2 where everyone starts with 120k for levels 6-10. If someone can't make both days, it doesn't matter.

 

[JustinInMN]

So a friend of mine is running a one-table home WSOP satellite league this year (winner gets an entry in the WSOP main event plus $2k to defray expenses).

Payout would be that everyone cashes out at the end proportional to the number of chips they have. (Yes, we realize that’s essentially a 10 hour cash game with 300BB starting stacks and no rebuys.).

The problem is these goals are in conflict. You cannot do a chip payout and guarantee someone a 12000 prize.

And would a halfway compromise of 1-hour blinds, days 1-2 combined be better than either?

I would probably do this. Play level-level-break, but you have to play until there is a winner. Which means assuming 10 entries, 600k in play, if the tournament ends with 40BB in play that's somewhere between levels 18-19, which means this has to be a four day event unless you compromise on the level times.

 

[aaronroch]

Justin, I probably could have made that clearer: the league runs a monthly tourney that has a winner.

The WSOP Day 1 (Or 2, etc) is a proposed standalone tourney outside of the league schedule, with non league members also invited.

 

[aaronroch]

I think the value would be the players learning "when" the pressure from the blinds begins and how the game changes, and that doesn't occur very much during the levels you're planning to play.

This sounds spot on. I think you’ve convinced me to push for a format that either includes both days or is just day 2.

 

[JustinInMN]

Justin, I probably could have made that clearer: the league runs a monthly tourney that has a winner.

The WSOP Day 1 (Or 2, etc) is a proposed standalone tourney outside of the league schedule, with non league members also invited.

For the sake of argument you get 10 players for $1200 each. Total prize pool is $12,000. The only way to guarantee that someone wins $12K is winner take all.

If you get more players and pay proportionally based on stacks, the rate is $1 = T5, still can't guarantee someone wins $12K.

If you are saying the player with the most chips automatically wins $12K, then you push the luck factor to ridiculous places at the end of the tournament, players will have nothing to lose to go for double ups with literally anything, really sucks the skill out of an event where the reason for playing longer levels was to preserve the skill factor.

I really think your best bet is to find a structure you can play until completion if the prize has to be $12K. (Perhaps start day 2 and play 60 minute levels.)

 

[tyrion1705]

We think we can get at lest 9 players, hoping for 18.

This would be around 1200 buy in for 9 players. That is a lot of money for a home game.

 

[aaronroch]

Justin, the league with the $12k prize is in progress. I’m not part of it. They have it all set.

This thread is about a one-time tournament separate from the league.

Tyrion,
Agreed, would be $1,800 prize pool for the 1-day tourney. But since the tourney will not run to completion even if we do “Day 2 blinds”, and payouts are proportional to ending stacks, we’re anticipating paying out to a lot of players. You’d have to triple up to walk out up $200.

 

[tyrion1705]

I'm kind of confused, but maybe I misread your first post. Are you saying the entire league is for the 12k prize pool, like a series of tournaments all adds up to this prize? Is this a completely separate tournament just to get experience playing the structure of the WSOP?

 

[aaronroch]

the entire league is for the 12k prize pool, like a series of tournaments all adds up to this prize? Is this a completely separate tournament just to get experience playing the structure of the WSOP?

Yes, that’s it exactly. Apparently my normal writing clarity is failing me today.

This is a completely separate tournament just to get experience playing the structure of the WSOP. Well, that and because it sounds fun to us.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Justin, the league with the $12k prize is in progress. I’m not part of it. They have it all set.

This thread is about a one-time tournament separate from the league.

Tyrion,
Agreed, would be $1,800 prize pool for the 1-day tourney. But since the tourney will not run to completion even if we do “Day 2 blinds”, and payouts are proportional to ending stacks, we’re anticipating paying out to a lot of players. You’d have to triple up to walk out up $200.

I like the idea of hosting a stand alone tourney to give players a feel for the Main Event. But I think having a cash out at the end of the day is a big mistake. Play, especially toward the end will be tend to be just trying to minimize losses/gain a little back. Nothing like true honest tournament play. I think a much better approach is to use a Day 2 blind levels but play it to completion. I think the experience doing that would be way more beneficial toward someone aiming for the Main.

 

[tyrion1705]

I would do shorter levels, something like 1hr, just to get through more levels. That way you still get to play a lot with very large stacks. If you want to play it out with a day 2, you could probably finish. If you stick with two hours, this could take 4 days like was mentioned above.

My guess is you'll have people get bored and just start playing wildly, which kind of defeats the idea of playing the WSOP structure.

I'm also curious about the league. How many tournaments is it and what kind of buy-ins do you have? Getting enough for a 12k first prize sounds interesting. Is there someone acting as the bank ? I play with guys from my church, and I don't know how many I would trust to be holding that kind of money.

 

[aaronroch]

Play, especially toward the end will be tend to be just trying to minimize losses/gain a little back.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought about that. That's a good point. We were trying to skip the part of a 'normal' tourney where you get down under 6 players, both for time constraints and also b/c nobody is going to make it to the final table anyway.

I play with guys from my church, and I don't know how many I would trust to be holding that kind of money.

Lol! I'm not going to touch that, it's too easy.
The league is fairly standard for such things. 10 guys, 12 Monthly tourneys @ $100 each, points awarded each month. Winner-take-all but the other 9 collectively get a 40% stake in whoever goes to the main event.

 

[DeeVee8]

Hmmm... I hadn't thought about that. That's a good point. We were trying to skip the part of a 'normal' tourney where you get down under 6 players, both for time constraints and also b/c nobody is going to make it to the final table anyway.

Pokerstars does 50/50 tournaments. Might be the payout structure you're looking for on this WSOP practice.

You play until half of the players are eliminated. Once half are eliminated the tourney is over.

Top half of the players get their buy-in back (50%)
Players get paid based on % of chips in play (for the other 50% of the prize pool)

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm kind of confused, but maybe I misread your first post. Are you saying the entire league is for the 12k prize pool, like a series of tournaments all adds up to this prize? Is this a completely separate tournament just to get experience playing the structure of the WSOP?

Yes, that’s it exactly. Apparently my normal writing clarity is failing me today.

This is a completely separate tournament just to get experience playing the structure of the WSOP. Well, that and because it sounds fun to us.

Awesome, this makes a heck of a lot more sense now.

And now that I understand I don't hate the idea. It's basically another version of a cash game where buy in x yields y in chips where y is T60k for the Wsop, and you follow the same blind schedule. The only real difference is at the end you cash out y for x dollars.

I mean this is at least useful for leaning the arithmetic of the first few levels, and the mechanics of longer levels., and doing a cash style chip chop at least puts some risk into decisions, even if it's not a perfect analog to tournament elimination pressure.

And the truth is early in deep tournaments more closely resemble cash anyway, so if you find the other aspects valuable, go for it.