PAHWM: Online PLO20 6max - The LAG You Know (1 Viewer)

[mipevi]

I am back in the hero seat, and we face the LAG from my previous thread. Same session but different table and here we are deep, this hand actually happened just one minute after the previously posted one.

Preflop action is trivial, so let's go to the flop.

CO: €11.10 (55.5 bb)
BTN: €20.56 (102.8 bb)
SB: €67.81 (339.1 bb)
BB: €29.21 (146 bb)
Hero (UTG): €45.68 (228.4 bb)

SB posts €0.10, BB posts €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has
Hero raises to €0.70
CO folds
BTN folds
SB calls €0.60
BB folds

Flop: (€1.60, 2 players)
SB bets €0.80

Do we give up, call or raise?

 

[LotsOfChips]

Over pair and a draw to the second nut flush. If this was multi-way, I think that a fold would be in order. But HU against a LAG, you MIGHT be ahead, so a raise might be in order, to juice the pot for when the comes on the turn.

Omaha is known to punish players who raise with a single pair or a non-nut draw. Or at least that is my experience. But as they say, no guts, no glory.

 

[JMC9389]

Call one time. If turn bricks, give it up

 

[DrStrange]

The "Relentless LAG" strategy works because people give up to aggression. The style works better at a short table rather than a full ring. Hero calling flop, fold turn on most cards seems like Hero would be playing exactly how villain likes. Though the stacks are deep enough that the implied odds are tempting.

Hero is already at a decision point. His hand isn't very robust. It has limited routes to improve. Even so, hero's hand might be best. Is Hero willing to stack off now? The villain is known to be unrelentingly aggressive, even to the point of being foolhardy.

I am not so sure which choice is best. At a full table with "normal" players folding seems best. But here I am torn between call vs raise, even a fold isn't that obviously bad.

I choose raise. If the stacks were shorter I would be thinking "get it in as fast as possible" In this hand, I am leaning towards raise flop, take the free card on the turn, bluff catch river unimproved. -=- DrStrange

 

[mipevi]

I'm not folding here, though whenever I draw to the 2nd nut flush and hit, I seem to be against the nut flush even with the flop being HU. Our holding is a non-nutted, small pot hand with future nut blockers. Raising means basically turning our hand into bluff while not blocking any of the pairs or even tens/jacks which would be in villain's continue range. I prefer to keep his range wide, and our future blockers will be of more value in a high SPR situation. So I make the call.

CO: €11.10 (55.5 bb)
BTN: €20.56 (102.8 bb)
SB: €67.81 (339.1 bb)
BB: €29.21 (146 bb)
Hero (UTG): €45.68 (228.4 bb)

SB posts €0.10, BB posts €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has
Hero raises to €0.70
CO folds
BTN folds
SB calls €0.60
BB folds

Flop: (€1.60, 2 players)
SB bets €0.80
Hero calls €0.80

Turn: (€3.20, 2 players)
SB bets €2.40

Villain really is relentless, isn't he? It's a decent barrel IMO, as our UTG opening range will include more TJxx type hands than 78xx. However, we just hit a nut blocker with our . Our also became a potential nut blocker for the river. Should we fold, call to see a river, or bluff with our blocker now?

 

[JMC9389]

Fold

 

[davislane]

I'm not folding here, though whenever I draw to the 2nd nut flush and hit, I seem to be against the nut flush even with the flop being HU. Our holding is a non-nutted, small pot hand with future nut blockers. Raising means basically turning our hand into bluff while not blocking any of the pairs or even tens/jacks which would be in villain's continue range. I prefer to keep his range wide, and our future blockers will be of more value in a high SPR situation. So I make the call.

CO: €11.10 (55.5 bb)
BTN: €20.56 (102.8 bb)
SB: €67.81 (339.1 bb)
BB: €29.21 (146 bb)
Hero (UTG): €45.68 (228.4 bb)

SB posts €0.10, BB posts €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has
Hero raises to €0.70
CO folds
BTN folds
SB calls €0.60
BB folds

Flop: (€1.60, 2 players)
SB bets €0.80
Hero calls €0.80

Turn: (€3.20, 2 players)
SB bets €2.40

Villain really is relentless, isn't he? It's a decent barrel IMO, as our UTG opening range will include more TJxx type hands than 78xx. However, we just hit a nut blocker with our . Our also became a potential nut blocker for the river. Should we fold, call to see a river, or bluff with our blocker now?

flat! can rep a bd spade flush, make diamond flush or just steal pot.

 

[DrStrange]

Was Hero planning to stack off on the flop? That could have been the plan - call flop / call turn / call river and hope the over-pair wins the run out if the flush draw misses.

Villain's plan is pretty transparent. Bet at every opportunity. Not as clear what villain does facing aggression.

Hero could have a fancy counter plan. call until time to turn hand into bluff. Raise and scare LAG into folding his top pair. -OR- Raise and hope villain calls with top pair/good kicker and doesn't have two pair.

Hero could even just plan a one and done draw with the flush potential. Missed turn, time to surrender.

Whichever plan Hero decided that should be done on the flop. There aren't more decisions. The turn changed nothing in an obvious way. execute the plan and hope for the best.

I have already opined on a flop plan. On the turn, best I can recommend is get lucky. -=- DrStrange

 

[mipevi]

On the flop the SPR was about 28, so certainly not looking to stack off with a small pot hand. Villain donked only half pot, which further limited our implied downside. The only way to risk more, would be to put in a raise at some point. I was not planning to call three streets unimproved (though bet sizing matters and sometimes I might), but rather call him down with a flush and bluff with our nut blockers against his wide range. We could also improve to a top full house or even quads by the river, though of course unlikely.

So now that we hit a nut blocker, should I put my money where my mouth is and raise? The thing is that on the turn the SPR is still almost 14. The only value hand that should be raising is 78xx with redraw, a naked nut straight here is just a call. While we do have the diamonds for that redraw, a raise would be more effective had the backdoor spades not opened up. So I decided to use the in our hand for a delayed river bluff, should the river brick.

CO: €11.10 (55.5 bb)
BTN: €20.56 (102.8 bb)
SB: €67.81 (339.1 bb)
BB: €29.21 (146 bb)
Hero (UTG): €45.68 (228.4 bb)

SB posts €0.10, BB posts €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has
Hero raises to €0.70
CO folds
BTN folds
SB calls €0.60
BB folds

Flop: (€1.60, 2 players)
SB bets €0.80
Hero calls €0.80

Turn: (€3.20, 2 players)
SB bets €2.40
Hero calls €2.40

River: (€8.00, 2 players)
SB bets €5.20

That is not a brick. Our nut blockers improved from a single seven to two kings. So yes, I am now looking to raise. How much is the question? Or, if you disagree and would rather fold or call, let me know.

 

[DrStrange]

I see the river as bad for hero as it creates plausible two pair hands and a few straights. So is the thinking that hero is behind and must bluff to win vs the over-pair is best that we started with on the flop?

Perhaps the thinking is Hero can represent the nuts and get villain to fold? This wouldn't be a strange plan at a "normal" full ring game where Hero might well have a hand like AKJT or KKJT. However, this villain doesn't seem like the type to fear monsters under the bed.

Bluffing LAGs requires judgement, a deft hand and a good grasp of second and third order thinking (what does villain think Hero is thinking about villain's game) I am not that good even with a robust heads up display.

If I were raising, lets go 60% pot. Chunky enough to scare villain but no more.

I still am not clear about Hero's flop plan. Were we always going to run a bluff unimproved? Is this a last moment importation based on the fortunate river scare card? Not sure about the plan one way or the other or even if there was a plan.

DrStrange

 

[mipevi]

And the conclusion.

CO: €11.10 (55.5 bb)
BTN: €20.56 (102.8 bb)
SB: €67.81 (339.1 bb)
BB: €29.21 (146 bb)
Hero (UTG): €45.68 (228.4 bb)

SB posts €0.10, BB posts €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has
Hero raises to €0.70
CO folds
BTN folds
SB calls €0.60
BB folds

Flop: (€1.60, 2 players)
SB bets €0.80
Hero calls €0.80

Turn: (€3.20, 2 players)
SB bets €2.40
Hero calls €2.40

River: (€8.00, 2 players)
SB bets €5.20
Hero raises to €15.40
SB folds

I still am not clear about Hero's flop plan. Were we always going to run a bluff unimproved? Is this a last moment importation based on the fortunate river scare card? Not sure about the plan one way or the other or even if there was a plan.

The plan was to play straightforward with our actual holding, but also as if we held KJxx, KTxx, or 87xx instead (nut spade draw added to these on the turn). And that's exactly what I did on the turn as well as the river.

If someone wanted to bomb the turn instead of waiting for the river, I'd be ok with that as we have diamonds and block the nut spade draw. But it is more risky as higher straight draws are still live, and when villain 3bets we don't get to see the river for a potential flush.

 

[DrStrange]

Will you be able to see the hand sometime in the future? It would be interesting to know if Hero was bluffing with the best hand or if the bluff was the only way for Hero to win -=- DrStrange

 

[mipevi]

Unfortunately not, unless the player is here and wants to tell us LOL. The nuts changed on every street yet villain kept betting, so that's pretty suspect. It's possible we had the best hand, but I think your assessment of him having two pairs or a straight is also very possible. To me calling the river doesn't seem all that profitable, even though our pair of kings will be good some of the time. A raise instead looks really strong and villain will just have to fold nearly all his hands. I knew he is a thinking player capable of folding, against a bad aggro (bet/calls with garbage) I would not dare to bluff.