PAHWM: Online PLO100 6max (1 Viewer)

[mipevi]

Ok, let's do another hand. Always fun to be on the button, right?

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds

Stats say that SB is a TAG and BB a maniac. Action on hero, how to proceed?

Edit: There is no rake for preflop pots.

 

[davislane]

Ok, let's do another hand. Always fun to be on the button, right?

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds

Stats say that SB is a TAG and BB a maniac. Action on hero, how to proceed?

POTTA!

 

[JMC9389]

I like the flat/call line. Position matters with this one. No way I'm folding a suited ace and you can really disguise your hand if you hit with minimal investment in case the flop bricks.

 

[mipevi]

I like the flat/call line. Position matters with this one. No way I'm folding a suited ace and you can really disguise your hand if you hit with minimal investment in case the flop bricks.

Sorry, there was a typo if you were the first to see my post. CO actually folded (originally said CO posts LOL). In case that matters to your line here.

Edit: Also worth mentioning, rake is not paid for preflop pots.

 

[davislane]

Sorry, there was a typo if you were the first to see my post. CO actually folded (originally said CO posts LOL). In case that matters to your line here.

POTTA!

 

[mipevi]

POTTA!

A long night at the bars?

 

[DrStrange]

Hero's hand is great in what is now a three-handed game. Not open folding! I'm not limping from the button, three-handed. So, its a raise - let's pot.

I am calling a 3-bet. Not so sure about calling a 4-bet even from a maniac.

Does hero have any data about post flop tendencies? Hero is missing many flops - does he c-bet most of his ranges or judging case by case?

DrStrange

 

[mipevi]

Does hero have any data about post flop tendencies? Hero is missing many flops - does he c-bet most of his ranges or judging case by case?

Just assume basic TAG and maniac tendencies post as well.

Hero plays a very balanced, polarized cbetting range post. Or tries to, LOL.

 

[mipevi]

Ok, going ahead with the action. Here I would like to get to the flop with a relatively high SPR to maximize our positional advantage and I also think our hand plays better that way. I don't want to limp though when I could win the blinds and avoid paying rake, so I think a raise to €2.50 might be the sweet spot. In the actual hand I went slightly bigger, as €3 is my standard BTN open.

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00

And we get min-3bet by the maniac. Well at least he didn't pot it LOL. We make the call.

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87

Action is on hero, now what?

 

[davislane]

Ok, going ahead with the action. Here I would like to get to the flop with a relatively high SPR to maximize our positional advantage and I also think our hand plays better that way. I don't want to limp though when I could win the blinds and avoid paying rake, so I think a raise to €2.50 might be the sweet spot. In the actual hand I went slightly bigger, as €3 is my standard BTN open.

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00

And we get min-3bet by the maniac. Well at least he didn't pot it LOL. We make the call.

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87

Action is on hero, now what?

flat

 

[JMC9389]

Don't love it. You're drawing to a gutter amd flopped top pair with a weak kicker. You have a spade draw which may or may not be good.

Call with caution but I'm probably folding turn unless I turn a 4 or a spade.

 

[mipevi]

I did a manual back-up before the forum reboot...

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@DrStrange said:

Those of us who play in fuller tables have learned to fear non-nut draws. At least I have learned that, but this is effectively a three-player hand where hero tried to steal the blinds. I expect maniac BB is defending really wide.

Hero might be ahead. His top pair can improve to top two pair. The spade draw might be clean - the ace of spades on the board is favorable. The gutter isn't nothing. To be sure, Hero could be crushed here. Even maniacs get their share of high-quality hands.

Hero can't be a nit nut peddler in this short a game. That board is well above average for Hero's hand. Not folding. Torn between calling and raising.

Hero has position. Villain doesn't sound like the type to fold to a bit of aggression. Hero really doesn't want to get reraised. I think calling is better than raising vs this villain, it is close to me though.

Flat and see a turn -=- DrStrange
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@cpac54 said:

I will say, as someone just getting into PLO, these PAHWM’s have been great!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[mipevi]

Call with caution but I'm probably folding turn unless I turn a 4 or a spade.

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00
Hero calls €2.00

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87
Hero calls €7.87

Turn: (€26.24, 2 players)
BB bets €19.67

Are we happy?

 

[davislane]

View attachment 1635725


BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00
Hero calls €2.00

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87
Hero calls €7.87

Turn: (€26.24, 2 players)
BB bets €19.67

Are we happy?

flat. looks like a pot sized river bet thats puts you just about all in is coming

 

[JMC9389]

You're not losing to much. Flat and hope the river doesn't pair the board

 

[Taghkanic]

You're not losing to much.

Well… I believe there are way more flushes that hero loses to than he beats, with so many of the low spades on the board.

Villain has to have some combo of 8s/6s/5s/2s minus 5s2s which is a SF. Any Ts-Ks/Xs are all ahead.

I’d proceed with caution. Depends how big of a maniac the villain is.

 

[JMC9389]

Well… I believe there are way more flushes that hero loses to than he beats, with so many of the low spades on the board.

Villain has to have some combo of 8s/6s/5s/2s minus 5s2s which is a SF. Any Ts-Ks/Xs are all ahead.

I’d proceed with caution. Depends how big of a maniac the villain is.

The flaw I see with this thinking is that I don't see villain continuing to blast away on three streets now with KKxx, QQxx, and JJxx of spades combos seeing the ace of spades on the flop. A good deal of the time they're going to be behind to hero's raise/call range preflop that includes lots of aces.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking to get away from this if the river pairs the board, but for now, hero is ahead here a lot of the time. A call makes the most sense here as played.

 

[DrStrange]

Full table nut-peddling is so much easier . . . . .

Skilled short handed maniacs often learn they prosper by betting and betting until the Hero gives up. If hero isn't willing to stack off, then the time to fold is now. Calling the turn / folding the river on an unpaired board is burning money.

I am calling villain down, no matter what river comes. This is a villain dependent choice. On a full table or vs a more traditional player, I would feel differently.

Hero should expect to lose a fair chunk of time. More so if the villain read is wrong. Still seem profitable this hand -=- DrStrange

 

[MrCatPants]

Catching up - agree with all actions so far. A maniac and min-clicking pre don't often go together. Is he raising a lot, or just VPIPing alot?

Normally, min click here pre overweights to case aces, which wouldn't include any spades. Sure he has a chance to have two other spades and if he does, that's just poker. Flatting the bet and hoping river doesn't pair the board.

 

[mipevi]

The maniac has very high PFR and 3bet, as well as AF post. I think him min 3betting pre at 100bb effective is just designed to manipulate the SPR so that he can bet large on every street post and threaten to get stacks in on the river to apply maximum pressure. Just his standard modus operandi IMO, his range should be very wide.

 

[MrCatPants]

The maniac has very high PFR and 3bet, as well as AF post. I think him min 3betting pre at 100bb effective is just designed to manipulate the SPR so that he can bet large on every street post and threaten to get stacks in on the river to apply maximum pressure. Just his standard modus operandi IMO, his range should be very wide.

This will sound like a copout but really depends on exactly what ive seen thus far. Enough shoving with air or two pairs i call. But if hes just super aggro but still an intelligent player he will have you beat here alot, and significant outs if not. May find a fold if its more the latter. Rather brazen for a player to bet when the obvious draw comes in.

 

[Rakrul]

I would fold turn.
You're blocking all the straights and the only reasonable bluff here is Ks + Kx/bwy cards. If you call, what runouts are good for you that you stack off with and which are you folding to? There's only one card improving your hand and is he bluffing 3 streets with air? In that case, it shouldn't be a problem to get his money later. If he has a 2 pair/set he's probably betting this turn and might check/call a blank river but can you really vb here?

I know I had a habit of giving myself excuses to get to showdown against maniacs who's screaming "I'm good!" so I might be overfolding here now, but you have a front door 9-high flush against a betting OOP player. I think it's -ev to continue here, but I don't know how PLO100 plays.

It would be useful to have cbet %, AF on turn and river on villain here, but without a good read I give up here.

 

[mipevi]

Street-by-street post flop analytics would indeed be helpful, but they are not available (HUD not allowed, only basic player stats shown by the site). I would not give a maniac the benefit of a reasonable bluffing range, I believe he is absolutely capable of just running a programmed bet/bet/bet play almost regardless of the board unless I show aggression. That said, he absolutely could have better spades, I think his 3bet range includes a ton of double suited garbage and our flush is very low.

 

[mipevi]

Hero calls turn and we get to the river.

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00
Hero calls €2.00

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87
Hero calls €7.87

Turn: (€26.24, 2 players)
BB bets €19.67
Hero calls €19.67

River: (€65.58, 2 players)
BB bets €65.58

Hero has an additional €1.88 behind and villain covers.

 

[davislane]

All In

 

[btbmason]

Calling the turn / folding the river on an unpaired board is burning money.

Picking this thread up late, but 100% agree with this.

After a call on the turn and without a paired board on the river, no going back now.

I suppose now you lose to but only losing to one additional hand isn’t reason enough to fold now after the turn call.

 

[mipevi]

Alright, let's see what happened...

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00
Hero calls €2.00

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87
Hero calls €7.87

Turn: (€26.24, 2 players)
BB bets €19.67
Hero calls €19.67

River: (€65.58, 2 players)
BB bets €65.58
Hero calls €65.58

BB shows

Our flush is good! I ended up calling but actually like shoving here, villain might pay the ~2bb just to see our cards.

 

[JMC9389]

Alright, let's see what happened...

BB: €186.38 (186.4 bb)
UTG: €100.00 (100 bb)
MP: €138.41 (138.4 bb)
CO: €204.23 (204.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): €100.00 (100 bb)
SB: €135.60 (135.6 bb)

SB posts €0.50, BB posts €1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.50) Hero has
UTG folds
MP folds
CO folds
Hero raises to €3.00
SB folds
BB raises to €5.00
Hero calls €2.00

Flop: (€10.50, 2 players)
BB bets €7.87
Hero calls €7.87

Turn: (€26.24, 2 players)
BB bets €19.67
Hero calls €19.67

River: (€65.58, 2 players)
BB bets €65.58
Hero calls €65.58

BB shows

Our flush is good! I ended up calling but actually like shoving here, villain might pay the ~2bb just to see our cards.

This is almost exactly what I had him on. I had the suspicion that the straight even was good. Maybe a jack or queen of spades. Either a two pair or set that he's overplaying once the flushes and straights came in.

Good call.

 

[ChaosRock]

So Villain was targeting a fold of exactly a straight to 6 or to 7? Hard to think he wanted a small flush to fold.

 

[Rakrul]

Yeah villain doesn't really have a plan here. He has showdown value so full speed towards the Road Runner tunnel from turn and out with 0 blockers isn't something I'd do, but I guess I would be overthinking this spot as hero, and fold so...