Tourney Bounty chip in chopped pot - not once but twice! (2 Viewers)

[LotsOfChips]

I ran my first tournament last night, and all went well, but I had an interesting development.

I'm using bounty chips, for a $5 bounty. Twice during the evening the player was eliminated by two players, who chopped the pot.

I've played in a fair number of bounty tournaments and that is the first time I have seen it happen. I wasn't prepared for this, so it took a moment to decide what to do.

I'm using The Tournament Director, so I ended up declaring both winners as eliminating the busted player, and the program awarded 1/2 bounty to each player. The question was who should get the actual bounty chip, and I just told the players involved to give it to either player, and the software would figure out the payouts at the end of the night.

It worked well, except I didn't have any quarters, so splitting the $5 bounty was a bit of a hassle, but one of the players ended up winning two half bounties, so I just gave them a $5 bill, and another player was happy to just take $2 when he busted out early. I was the other player holding a half bounty, and played until the end, so the extra 50 cents from the other player went to me.

I read a couple of other threads here, and don't see any better way to deal with this, except perhaps immediately paying out the bounties and retrieving the chip. That would require having a supply of quarters on hand. Awarding the bounty to closest player or largest/smallest stack seems wrong.

Thoughts?

 

[RocAFella1]

In a smaller stakes game I would high card to determine who gets the chip/knockout. If points are important in a league type situation then let the system enter it as half knockouts but do the quick flip to determine who gets the chip for the payout.

 

[inca911]

Easiest is the better hand between the bounty claimers gets the bounty chip in full.

Or split in the unlikely event both winners have the same hand (i.e., no overall winner). Players chopping a bounty settle a payment between them for the half so house doesn’t have to keep track.

 

[RocAFella1]

Easiest is the better hand between the bounty claimers gets the bounty chip in full.

What if both hands were the same? Say like the same straight for example.

 

[krafticus]

Chop the bounty

 

[chippitydoodah]

Take the higher suit of the highest card if it's a straight or higher suit if it's flush vs flush.
Spades, Hearts, Diamonds then Clubs

 

[LotsOfChips]

Easiest is the better hand between the bounty claimers gets the bounty chip in full.

The hands were tied in both cases, hence the chopped pots. Not sure in which case there would be a tie with one player having a better hand.

Take the higher suit of the highest card if it's a straight or higher suit if it's flush vs flush.
Spades, Hearts, Diamonds then Clubs

There can't be a flush vs flush tie in a 5 card hand with two hole cards. (Well maybe if both players are playing the board, with no higher suited card in their hole cards, but then the third player wouldn't get busted out.).

In the case of last night, it was the same two pair and same kicker for one tie, and I don't know what the other tied hand was.

Usually by the time I hear about the bust out at a different table, the cards are mucked and nobody has paid any attention to suits, especially if it's not a flush (which as noted, can't tie)

Trying to train my players to note the suits of a particular card in a pair of hands is -EV

 

[HiveKueen]

Suggestions… make the bounty $6 or $10 instead of $5 and/or Pay bounties via Venmo so fractions of dollars aren’t a problem.

Tho unlikely, The situation could have been three players busting one or two players busting 3.

 

[JustinInMN]

I ran my first tournament last night, and all went well, but I had an interesting development.

I'm using bounty chips, for a $5 bounty. Twice during the evening the player was eliminated by two players, who chopped the pot.

I've played in a fair number of bounty tournaments and that is the first time I have seen it happen. I wasn't prepared for this, so it took a moment to decide what to do.

I'm using The Tournament Director, so I ended up declaring both winners as eliminating the busted player, and the program awarded 1/2 bounty to each player. The question was who should get the actual bounty chip, and I just told the players involved to give it to either player, and the software would figure out the payouts at the end of the night.

It worked well, except I didn't have any quarters, so splitting the $5 bounty was a bit of a hassle, but one of the players ended up winning two half bounties, so I just gave them a $5 bill, and another player was happy to just take $2 when he busted out early. I was the other player holding a half bounty, and played until the end, so the extra 50 cents from the other player went to me.

I read a couple of other threads here, and don't see any better way to deal with this, except perhaps immediately paying out the bounties and retrieving the chip. That would require having a supply of quarters on hand. Awarding the bounty to closest player or largest/smallest stack seems wrong.

Thoughts?

I think splitting the bounty is fairest. You probably could just pull the bounty chip out of play and offer each player cash chips to redeem at the end of the night.

As for settling the odd amount, treat this as pot with 5 chips in it. Earlier position gets the odd chip, so 3 for that player, 2 for the other. That seems reasonably fair and covers all forseeable contingencies. If you get in the weird situation where 3 players tie for a pot, you would award 2 dollars to the earlies two positions, and 1 to the last player. (Even in an extreme case of there being a 7 way all in with only one elimination, which may not even be possible in practice, but still the first five players by rule would get a dollar and the 6th gets nothing, but it's still okay if that rule is known at the outset.)

So I think that's the cleanest answer going forward. Simple, covers multiple contingencies, doesn't require tracking of cards by rank and suit, and should be easily understood in nearly all situations.

 

[JustinInMN]

Even in an extreme case of there being a 7 way all in with only one elimination, which may not even be possible in practice, but still the first five players by rule would get a dollar and the 6th gets nothing, but it's still okay if that rule is known at the outset.

Okay I am now obsessing over this edge case.

I don't think it's possible to have more than 4 people tied for the best hand distinct from the board. But let's look at the rankings one by one from top to bottom.

Straight Flush (including Royal) - only a tie if on the board.

Four of a Kind - four players could hypothetically tie with the same kicker if the four of a kind is on the board. xxxxA and AAAAK are always going to play the board so no elimination in these specific situations.

Full House - Up to three players can tie if they are using one card to make the winning hand. AAAKx board could have up to 3 players with a K. The only way 4 or more players tie is if the full house is on the board and no one can beat the board.

Flush - Only a tie when all players player the board

Straight - Up to four players can tie if they hold the same ranks for the best hand. So on a QJT board, hypothetically 4 players can hold AK or 4 could hold K9 if no one has AK, or 4 could hold 98 if no one has K9. Same patter holds for one card straights.

Three of a Kind - Up to four players can tie if they hold the same ranks as kickers with 3 of a kind on the board. So QQQxx board could theorhetically have 4 AK hands that tie, or QQQKx could theoretically have four Ax hands that tie. (Obviously four AK and AQ wouldn't be possible.) Otherwise ties involving more than 4 players mean everyone is playing the board.

Two Pair - Same as above, KKQQx could have up to four players holding an A for a tie. Otherwise if more than four players are tied, everyone is playing the board.

One Pair - Same as above, KKxxx could have up to four players holding an identical 3 card kicker for a tie. Otherwise if more than four players are tied, everyone is playing the board.

No Pair - Same as above, up to four players could hold the same 5 card combination for the best hand, otherwise everyone is playing the board.

So bottom line, Flushes and Straight flushes are only ties when everyone is playing the board (no one is eliminated), the other combinations are based on ranks only and since there are 4 cards if each rank, that's the maximum number of tied hands possible if the best hand beats the board.