Tourney Player Storms out Mid-tourney!!?? (3 Viewers)

[Vinman]

Yeah, 9th sounds more reasonable but I knew he made the final table without showing up.

 

[buffalojim]

It's your game, run it the way you want. People will either come, or they won't.

 

[TKEUofM]

I've had a situation like this happen twice.

First instance, player was drunk and then hit some powerful weed on a break and essentially passed out and went to sleep on the couch with 15 players left of a 36 player tourney. He had a decent sized stack, blinded him off to keep the chips balanced since his stack technically contained chips from other players at the table that we had won from them. Felt the right decision was to let them get redistributed. He "finished" 10th one place out of the money. lol He was still technically present at the event, just couldn't keep his eyes open........

Second instance two players got into a little argument over an incomplete raise, a little banter back and forth, a middle finger and a blown F-U kiss and one player stormed out after I interjected and calmed down the situation. Players also had a little history from an event outside of poker so there was some existing tension between them. I thought the player that left just went outside to cool down, come to find out he took off and went home. He also had a good size stack with about 14 players left. Blinded him out and he made the final table with 1 ante chip left and cashed...... craziest part was there was a 3 way all in with 10 players left and all had big stacks, one guy gets eliminated allowing the ghost player with one ante left to cash.

Good times!!! Always exciting!

 

[HiveKueen]

I’m sorry, but is this The Church Poker League? Just joking but it looks like you kick people out for cussing? Not knocking it, you guys do you guys, but I can’t fathom something like that in today’s society.

Given that neither of us even believes in god, this is a funny question. Indeed we will continue to do us - a little pocket of civility in an otherwise Karen-filled world! Maybe you could stop in to play sometime if you are ever in the area to see what a great group of players we have! Do you ever get to Rochester, NY?

 

[HiveKueen]

Second instance ...

Neither of these players would be allowed back to my game. Did you let them come back.

 

[ekricket]

Given that neither of us even believes in god, this is a funny question. Indeed we will continue to do us - a little pocket of civility in an otherwise Karen-filled world! Maybe you could stop in to play sometime if you are ever in the area to see what a great group of players we have! Do you ever get to Rochester, NY?

 

[HiveKueen]

You are welcome...
Just from my perspective (as a player and casino environment), I see a lot of quirky players at the table.
Most I like others I don't...but the rules are the rules and they are the same for everyone.

While I HATE players like Kassouf, I think WSOP TD's were way out of line taking decisions based on frustration & emotions....
Even when players don't act as desired, they still have their rights.

Again, home environment is different, so YMMV

We definitely don't have, or want, a casino like environment at our home game.

 

[detroitdad]

That’s how I would handle it. Having an absent player blinding off drastically affects decisions, IMO giving a distinct advantage to the 2 players directly to the absent player’s right. And the more chips on the other table is negligible, particularly if it’s a rebuy tournament. That’s just how it goes sometimes.

Also, I’m surprised this isn’t a @MrCatPants thread.

This...

 

[HiveKueen]

It sounds like her storming off wasn't the sole offense but the last straw.

Yep, the last straw we were willing to take from her. She was definitely just going to be a big drag on our vibe. I used to give too much leeway. Now I deem the person to have hanged themselves with much less rope than I used to give people. You might say we have a target clientele and don't feel the need to settle for less. We all occasionally swear, misdeal, string bet, act out turn, fall asleep and not make the game, etc.. But we all act like adults. Angry, critical-of-others people aren't welcome. Nor are people not open to feedback from the House.

I plan to follow up on this thread with what I've gleaned from all the feedback and the new House rule I craft in case this ever happens again.!

 

[Jimulacrum]

Yep, the last straw we were willing to take from her. She was definitely just going to be a big drag on our vibe. I used to give too much leeway. Now I deem the person to have hanged themselves with much less rope than I used to give people. You might say we have a target clientele and don't feel the need to settle for less. We all occasionally swear, misdeal, string bet, act out turn, fall asleep and not make the game, etc.. But we all act like adults. Angry, critical-of-others people aren't welcome. Nor are people not open to feedback from the House.

I get it. I see you getting some push-back here, but there's a big difference between ejecting someone because you're picky and reaching the end of your rope with someone who consistently brings friction and anger to the game. People who rage out like that create a problem for everyone else, all the time, even when they're not actively raging. Sucks the fun spirit out of the game and replaces it with tension and prior restraint.

I plan to follow up on this thread with what I've gleaned from all the feedback and the new House rule I craft in case this ever happens again.!

Simple rule. "The house reserves the right to refuse service to anyone to serve the best interests of the game."

 

[MrCatPants]

Don't know him but this is funny!

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/why-does-this-keep-happening-to-me.135554/

 

[HiveKueen]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/why-does-this-keep-happening-to-me.135554/

Oh… not going down that bunny hole!!

 

[bergs]

We need to follow Robert’s Rules here.

I’m Robert, and the only acceptable answer is to blind off her stack, but everytime she’s in the blinds, call her to remind her that she needs to post, then hang up while cackling.

If she stops picking up, just leave her voicemails at work.

“HI KAREN, POSTING THE BIG BLIND OF FIVE THOUSAND FOR YOU. ALLRIGHTIETHEN. SEE YOU NEVER.”

 

[Tonysquander]

Many years ago I was at a crawfish boil before the poker tournament, was playing great that night, but literally fainted at the table and fell to the floor as I was winning a big hand. Turned out it was likely due to dehydration as opposed to the copious amounts of alcohol I had consumed. They thought I was having a heart attack. Thankfully, the one sane (and sober) person took my pulse and talked them out of calling EMS. After coming to, and drinking some water, went back to the table to resume playing and found out those fuckers had distributed my stack amongst the other players at the table. Have still not forgiven them. And I’ve been paying a freaking cardiologist for yearly checkups ever since. FML. Follow the rules!

 

[justsomedude]

…even if she had tried to come back into the game a while later, we would not have let her take her seat, even if we had left her stack on the table.

Seems like a pretty clear admission that you were the one DQ’ing her. She did not DQ herself.

Probably not proper tournament etiquette, but if those are the house rules, then so be it. You may want to put that rule down in writing and advise all players: “Temper tantrums during play will result in disqualification and a permanent ban from the league.”

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Like many have stated the correct thing to do here is blind her out. If she comes back she comes back & her chips are srill live.

We definitely don't have, or want, a casino like environment at our home game.

I hear you. This is a Home Game NOT a Casino. I'm a firm believer of this. However there always need to be rules in place for integrity's sake & it doesn't sound like she did anything to warrant a DQ with the information given. Was she berating other players? You mention people were "rattled." Do you mean shocked? I've seen many a blow ups before & the typical feeling of the room is relief when the offending player storms out. Usually followed by a lot of levity : )

Again to answer the OP question: did you make the correct decision in pulling her chips off the table? No.

Do you need to invite the Drama Llama back? DEFINITELY NOT!!!

 

[Mojo1312]

As best as we can tell she was frustrated with other players decisions including three players not checking down to bust an all in player and somebody beating her pocket KK on the river. She has shown herself to be an anxious, know-it-all type of player. Think a nasty Karen at the table. Given her volatility I’m actually afraid to have her attend any more games.

Sounds like an ideal fit for our weekly $1/$2 NLHE cash game. PM incoming.

 

[HiveKueen]

We need to follow Robert’s Rules here.

I’m Robert, and the only acceptable answer is to blind off her stack, but everytime she’s in the blinds, call her to remind her that she needs to post, then hang up while cackling.

If she stops picking up, just leave her voicemails at work.

“HI KAREN, POSTING THE BIG BLIND OF FIVE THOUSAND FOR YOU. ALLRIGHTIETHEN. SEE YOU NEVER.”

This wins the Best Answer contest!!!

 

[Tarsus4]

I'm curious, is there a way to blind the player off that doesn't consistently advantage the small-blind player (the player to the immediate right)? Best I can come up with is to change the missing player's blinds into an ante (more convenient if there's already an ante, just double it for that player), which makes it dead money that doesn't depend on player position.

 

[upNdown]

There have been a few long threads on alternatives to blinding people out at home tournaments. I can’t find them. But they’re here.

 

[merkong]

Not knowing a multitude of backstory on dynamics etc it’s your game and you can do what you feel is right. I have a removed list big enough to seat and entire table to play a “winner gets back in” match. Hmmmm.

That said, unless the players behavior was effectively every session and several players made their feelings known about it to me directly, I wouldn’t have kicked them out. If I wanted them out I’d take a sit down and talk it out. Then I’d give them the boot.

I would have blinded off the stack.

Due process.

All players need to some degree of skin thickness. Completely “stealing fun” all the time is a serious offense. Players will come to you and then once they do, in droves, you act. Players are a premium and sending them packing is risky business. Also, there might be players who couldn’t care less about someone’s theatrics. They might see that behavior as making that player vulnerable. Exploitable. Players might see an insta-ban as the manager being heavy handed.

Tough spot. Your game.

 

[Tarsus4]

There have been a few long threads on alternatives to blinding people out at home tournaments. I can’t find them. But they’re here.

To save others the search:

Another solution is to deal the spot no cards, but deduct both blinds from the stack as the dealer button passes by (the blind chips are removed from play). The player's bounty chip goes in the last pot when the player's stack is eliminated.

I think it's a better alternative than blinding down the stack (which favors certain players positionally), or than removing the stack entirely (which leaves no opportunity for the player to return later and continue play). And it has zero impact on shuffling or dealing.

 

[HiveKueen]

Well, I learned a lot from posting my game situation.

Here's how I'll summarize my take aways.

1. I admit that when I originally posted I didn't realize all the various intricacies of the situation.

2. Given the overall circumstances I'm comfortable with how I handled the specific situation - I'm calling it a player DQ and I took that players chips off the table in accordance with TDA rule 71 D. I'm also comfortable with disqualifying this specific player from the league. She was the type of person who comes back with a gun!

3. I need a house rule for when a player leaves the premises with no intention of coming back but has not been DQ'd.

4. RE creating a house fule, after considering all the issues and changing my mind 10 times about how to handle non-DG absences in the future, I have decided to keep things as simple as possible. If a player leaves the premises with no intention of coming back (as determined by the house), the player becomes absent (versus still in the house but sitting out) and the stack is removed from the table an the player is busted out of the tournament in Tournament Director.

5. No refund of buy-in for a player a non-DQ absent player (I actually considered refunding the player's buy-in for the case where a player leaves the game for reasons other than DQ'n).

6. My house rule doesn't need to provide any more detail about when a player will be DQ'd - TDA rule 71 is sufficient.


I would have made different decisions if
1. the buy in was much higher than $30. or

2. a player going absent was a common occurrence (in two years, this is only the second time it has happened and the first was due to a family emergency). or

3. I were running a business not a home game. or

4. I was hurting for players and worried this would alienate the regs (although, in this case I would be planning to change the rule once participation wasn't an issue). or

5. I was running a cash game.

Basically, running a tournament every week is just enough work, happening while I'm also trying to play (!), that I want to keep things as simple as possible.

I hope this thread helps others who run tournaments anticipate these situations and be ready for them!

Thanks to all for the input!!!
HiveKueen

 

[Jaxen]

Experience is something you never get until after you need it.
We have rules for stuff we've never used, and it feels good to have a plan.
If somebody leaves a stack and it's not a family emergency/gotta go pick up a kid, our rule is, leave it on the table, blind it off, and if it's still there when we reach the money, it then comes off the table and they bubbled. It's one thing to "fold your way into the money". It's another to pull a Viktor Hovland from yesterday.
And if you don't want Kimberly around in the future, boot her and I think you handled it perfectly in the email. Winner of our first tourney of 2023, I guy I'd played with a bunch of times and is usually a fun, engaging guy got drunk, loud and belligerent. Had 6 guys tell me "If he plays again I won't." It was a field of 14 and we normally have 16-18, he's one of the guys I text (no social media) so I didn't. He basically got a one-year penalty as he came back reformed in 2024.

 

[cosmokramer]

After a lot of thought, for the best interests of the league, we really feel it necessary to withdraw your league membership and the league welcome mat we have extended to

K$B

Is nobody asking the most important question?
Is it a doormat? Yoga mat? Garden mat?
And will Kim give it back?

 

[merkong]

5. I was running a cash game.

Oh no. You dip out for even a minute at a GFC cash game an we be chopping up your stack.

Juuuust kidding and I don’t know if you need that provision in your nomenclature FWIW.

I did have a player recently, new guy, that wanted to pocket all of his chips when he left the cash game to go outside to have a “puff.” I said listen Cheech, the way you’ve been playing, your money is safer with us in charge than it is with you in charge and you can’t do that.

lol

 

[Preditor]

I had a much more tame but similar situation last night.

3 players left (bubble) of a 8-player STT. Two of the bust outs were waiting for a cash game.

One guy - poker novice and new player at our game (first time) and super nice - said the classic "I am so sorry; I wasn't expecting to make it this late and I have an early meeting tomorrow". He leaves.

The remaining 2 players are myself and a really, really close friend of mine. We decide to let one of the bust-outs to play the player's stack.

TOTALLY not official; and if there were any more players (or not great friends) I absolutely wouldn't not have done that. But in the moment, it felt right and fun.

Point is? It's a home game; not a casino. Make decisions on the fly that is best for your home game.

 

[WedgeRock]

Some people already mentioned part of this, but I haven't read the whole thread.

If it's a multi-table event, I'm not really worried about balanced stacks. A player at table one could knock out multiple players, then get moved to table 2, and tables aren't chip balanced anymore.

Blinding off a stack, especially a significant stack, might get that player ITM. What are you going to do then, pay Karen? Not to mention the advantage of stealing the absent player's blinds. It affects play too much. Take the stack off the table.

I'd have a house rule that says you have 2 orbits (or whatever artificial number you want) to return, then your stack comes off the table.

If it's a league with points, you are treated as being knocked out right then. No prize money, though. If you would've won anything for getting knocked out at that point, pay spots get bumped down one, or if you are ITM already, your prize get proportionally chopped up.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

Just my opinion - host handled it perfectly. She abandoned her stack, which normally would have to stay in play - but her subsequent actions caused her disqualification in the hosts view; so TDA it is. Stack removed, and absolutely banned forever. I don't get people ITT who are griping about a lifetime ban here, this is a HOME game, meaning this is the hosts home. If you act a fool in my home, you are NEVER coming back. I've only perma-banned 2 people in my game over 18 years, because I nipped the first idiot in the bud 2 years in and no one ever forgot it. Except the second guy who got banned lol, over a decade later. My home is a sacred space, and if you get too close to violating that, you're gone forever. Easy game.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

You are welcome...
Just from my perspective (as a player and casino environment), I see a lot of quirky players at the table.
Most I like others I don't...but the rules are the rules and they are the same for everyone.

While I HATE players like Kassouf, I think WSOP TD's were way out of line taking decisions based on frustration & emotions....
Even when players don't act as desired, they still have their rights.

Again, home environment is different, so YMMV

lol nah fuck that guy