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Windwalker’s Chipping Journey in Pr0n0grAph1C Detail (44 Viewers)

CrazyEddie said:
Jeff, one possibility is that the "standard weight" large crowns were made by USPCC using their Paranoid material and the "new Heavy Weight" chips were made by Burt using their clay formulas.

On the other hand, I have a modest collection of large crowns (mostly sourced from a single collector) and every one of them is comparable to a Burt clay chip, not a one of them is at all similar to the Paranoid engraved chips I have (as seen in my avatar photo) which are indeed substantially lighter than the clays.
Click to expand...

Yes, the "standard weight" chips are described as being made out of "Paranoid" material, which I think you pointed out some time ago was a proprietary term used just for USPCC chips.

More evidence, however, that the "mercury" heavy weight chips were made by TRK are their order cards, which by the early 1950s list detailed clay/dye formula tweaks, that they are experimenting with, which you would not see if TRK was a mere distributor. They also list lots of lead. Below is an example of that, which I posted elsewhere.

1619200588813.png
 
Jeff in Iowa said:
Yes, the "standard weight" chips are described as being made out of "Paranoid" material, which I think you pointed out some time ago was a proprietary term used just for USPCC chips.

More evidence, however, that the "mercury" heavy weight chips were made by TRK are their order cards, which by the early 1950s list detailed clay/dye formula tweaks, that they are experimenting with, which you would not see if TRK was a mere distributor. They also list lots of lead. Below is an example of that, which I posted elsewhere.

View attachment 684321
Click to expand...
Jeff, I’m back in town on Monday, will scan and post that order form for you.
 
btw, while I (selfishly) applaud your decision not to collect large crowns, I'd (selfishly) love to see pictures of any that you do have.
 
Jeff in Iowa said:
If you have a Burt order form for Large Crown chips, I would love to see it, as that would completely change my thinking about these chips.
Click to expand...

From what I understood > TRK subcontracted to USPC (like many other brands) until the invention of their " Crown molds ", so not possible to find the crowns mold before 1940 and 100% TRK production. Before they had to offer other free or exclusive molds but manufactured by USPC.
So TRK begins the production when BURT CO acquires USPC, It seems to be that, but I'm not sure (a catalog would be needed).

I would like to know what TRK was selling before 1940 and the introduction of their new chips, certainly USPC chips like " Diamond Rectangle " etc..
 
Windwalker said:
Used vs mint TRKs have massive height differences in general. Very tilting. But the fracs have a place in my used TRK set.
Click to expand...
The Pic Hobsons are nearly a chip shorter per barrel even new, or in similar condition. I love the PHs, but the difference in height always drove me nuts in my mixed set.

20201201_183622.jpg
 
Hmm.... branching out into older molds? It seems like your focus in all this time has been Paulsons and TRK small crowns, I think (I might be wrong, of course...). Is there going to be room in your edited collection for some Burts?
 
CrazyEddie said:
Hmm.... branching out into older molds? It seems like your focus in all this time has been Paulsons and TRK small crowns, I think (I might be wrong, of course...). Is there going to be room in your edited collection for some Burts?
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No, not yet. A source sent me these, was curious. I’m still THC and TRK strong.
 
lapincretin said:
From what I understood > TRK subcontracted to USPC (like many other brands) until the invention of their " Crown molds ", so not possible to find the crowns mold before 1940 and 100% TRK production. Before they had to offer other free or exclusive molds but manufactured by USPC.
So TRK begins the production when BURT CO acquires USPC, It seems to be that, but I'm not sure (a catalog would be needed).

I would like to know what TRK was selling before 1940 and the introduction of their new chips, certainly USPC chips like " Diamond Rectangle " etc..
Click to expand...

The "Large Crown" chips date all the way back to 1929. Below is the USPC Co. order record for the first T.R. King order. The last recorded USPC Co. "Large Crown" record is 9/28/1938 for inlaid chips. All USPC records after early 1939 are lost, so we don't know exactly when T. R. King or whoever took over production from them.

If Burt did make chips on this mold I would guess it would have been during the late 1940s, after UPSC Co. stops production, and perhaps before T. R. King had their own manufacturing and production capacity fully running. If Burt did make them, I would guess that they would have been the "Standard Weight" Large Crowns, as their manufacturing and chip formula at that stage was I believe very similar to the USPC Co.

1619233391993.png
 
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Jeff in Iowa said:
If Burt did make chips on this mold I would guess it would have been during the late 1940s, after UPSC Co. closes, and perhaps before T. R. King had their own manufacturing and production capacity fully running. If Burt did make them, I would guess that they would have been the "Standard Weight" Large Crowns, as their manufacturing and chip formula at that stage was I believe very similar to the USPC Co.
Click to expand...

Ok So at first it would be USPC who manufactures the first Large Crown.

The start of manufacturing by TRK is at the same time as the end of USPC, I guess there was an event and TRK reclaims the rights to the mold and starts manufacturing the chips in California, and maybe they take the machine for the mold at USPC, so if that's it Burt Co never made a Cronw Mold.
 
While I am thrilled to now own a decent sized set of the Savannah Suns, the $1 chip is underwhelming, and boring to me.

Savannah Sun OG lineup.JPG


I had acquired a couple of racks of CBC $10s a while ago, and my current thought is to shape mill them to become a $1 for this set. Below is a quick fantasy mockup. Thoughts / better ideas?

savannah-sun-lineup2.png
 
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Windwalker said:
While I am thrilled to now own a decent sized set of the Savannah Suns, the $1chip is underwhelming, and boring to me.

View attachment 687115

I had acquired a couple of racks of CBC $10s a while ago, and my current thought is to shape mill them to become a $1 for this set. Below is a quick fantasy mockup. Thoughts / better ideas?

View attachment 687117
Click to expand...

Disclaimer: I have a bit of an agenda here, could use a rack of 3D14 Cali hotstamp $10 :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

Pros: CBC is a more interesting chip and offers the right edge spot progression. It works perfectly here.

Cons: 1) the original might be a boring $1 but it’s the real thing. I’d keep things as original as possible (I find murdered/relabeled chips do look a bit fake when you realize that the label isn’t perfectly aligned with the shape of the inlay) and 2) there aren’t many Cali hotstamp $5 out there (afaik), having a couple of rack of $10 can be of huge help to make your sets playable. I would use the CBC $10 in your mixed hotstamp set!
 
PocketAces said:
Disclaimer: I have a bit of an agenda here, could use a rack of 3D14 Cali hotstamp $10 :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

Pros: CBC is a more interesting chip and offers the right edge spot progression. It works perfectly here.

Cons: 1) the original might be a boring $1 but it’s the real thing. I’d keep things as original as possible (I find murdered/relabeled chips do look a bit fake when you realize that the label isn’t perfectly aligned with the shape of the inlay) and 2) there aren’t many Cali hotstamp $5 out there (afaik), having a couple of rack of $10 can be of huge help to make your sets playable. I would use the CBC $10 in your mixed hotstamp set!
Click to expand...
All good points! Still thinking aloud.
 
I wouldn't go with the same shape as the $5 if I were you. Also, most $1s are round, even in shaped inlay sets, so I'd consider keeping it round if I were you, even if that seems boring. It'll also make for a better fit with the inlay as the shaped gear labels can be difficult to align properly and fill out the space. I do like your replacement chip though. Nothing wrong with improving a set IMO.
 
Windwalker said:
While I am thrilled to now own a decent sized set of the Savannah Suns, the $1 chip is underwhelming, and boring to me.

View attachment 687115

I had acquired a couple of racks of CBC $10s a while ago, and my current thought is to shape mill them to become a $1 for this set. Below is a quick fantasy mockup. Thoughts / better ideas?

View attachment 687117
Click to expand...
Is there anyone on PCF that does shape milling as a service?
 
I was going to say I'd want 2 different colored spots on that blue $1. I couldn't even see the blue spots lol.

I like the spot choice, 2 colors, just need a different shape for the inlay. Like @RainmanTrail said it could be round. Don't repeat shapes.

Gear does shape milling. His thread explains the types of shapes he can do. There are limits imposed by the equipment and process.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/faq-pricing-2019.35730/

Page 2 he goes more into specifics...
 
I see the vision, definitely worth thinking aloud about.

To my eye, having seen the original, the suggested replacement chip seems too bright & colorful. It looks like it doesn’t fit and makes me twitchy. I don’t know what I would have said had I never seen the original, but it seems off to me.

If you go shaped inlay, to @jpietrella’s question, is there a PCF murder that could not only do a shaped inlay replacement, but one that would look crisp enough to pass as an original?

[Edit: Mentions of Gear came in as I wrote this. I don’t recall having seen his work, my comments are not presenting criticism of his work.]

Even if you go circular inlay to match the original, would an obvious re-do in an otherwise complete authentic casino set would cause more of a tilt than a plain $1?
 
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RainmanTrail said:
I wouldn't go with the same shape as the $5 if I were you. Also, most $1s are round, even in shaped inlay sets, so I'd consider keeping it round if I were you, even if that seems boring. It'll also make for a better fit with the inlay as the shaped gear labels can be difficult to align properly and fill out the space. I do like your replacement chip though. Nothing wrong with improving a set IMO.
Click to expand...

GenghisKhan said:
I was going to say I'd want 2 different colored spots on that blue $1. I couldn't even see the blue spots lol.

I like the spot choice, 2 colors, just need a different shape for the inlay. Like @RainmanTrail said it could be round. Don't repeat shapes.
Click to expand...

That same shape was photoshop laziness. The idea was definitely to use a different shape. That thread from @Gear is very helpful, I’ll try and mock-up with more true colors and a different shape, as well as round.


warma said:
I see the vision, definitely worth thinking aloud about.

To my eye, having seen the original, the suggested replacement chip seems too bright & colorful. It looks like it doesn’t fit and makes me twitchy. I don’t know what I would have said had I never seen the original, but it seems off to me.
Click to expand...
My actual $1 choice would be a King’s Casino $1 which matches the edge spots of all the other denoms, and is the same light blue as the original $1, but I can’t bring myself to murder that chip, it’s too beautiful.
 
Windwalker said:
That same shape was photoshop laziness. The idea was definitely to use a different shape. That thread from @Gear is very helpful, I’ll try and mock-up with more true colors and a different shape, as well as round.



My actual $1 choice would be a King’s Casino $1 which matches the edge spots of all the other denoms, and is the same light blue as the original $1, but I can’t bring myself to murder that chip, it’s too beautiful.
Click to expand...
You could murder Riffle Steins but I don't know if you'll find any in same condition as your other denoms
 
Windwalker said:
I had acquired a couple of racks of CBC $10s a while ago, and my current thought is to shape mill them to become a $1 for this set. Below is a quick fantasy mockup. Thoughts / better ideas?
Click to expand...
Those Savannah Suns are a complete work of art. Would you commission somebody to fix the mona lisa's smile?
 

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