Rulings 101 (2 Viewers)

[Mangatang]

I was going to call it an open face CLUB sandwich

FYP

 

[casinochipper22]

Welcome. I’m curious about tipping at the poker table. Is tipping different at 1-2 vs 2-5? What is an average tip per hand? Is a $1 tip bad? Do you expect bigger tips on bigger pots? Do you get to keep your tips or are they split among all dealers or all table games? How many hands do you average per hour? At 30 hands per hour X $2 per hand = $$$. What’s the biggest tip you ever had? Thoughts on tips for tourney’s: Does only winner tip, should all cashers tip, what is a reasonable amount? Do people tip more when they are drunk? Do women tip better than men? Do young people tip more than old people? Any other thoughts or storys on tipping would be great.

$1 a pot isn't bad at all. A bigger pot relative to the game you are playing, then a couple extra bucks never hurts either. Most poker rooms, the dealers keep their own cash game tips and split tourney tips by amount of time they spend dealing. A good dealer should average 30+ hands/hour. Tourny you tip if you cash. like 5% of profit would be awesome for smaller tourneys. Remember to tip out of enjoyment. not obligation. tipping makes the game good for everyone involved! Biggest tip was a lil over $100. And then I've also dealt some jackpots and got about 5%-10% of jackpot amount. those were always good days!

Great topic. Here are my thoughts, as a player.
I think I’m a fairly generous tipper - usually tipping 5-10% of my tournament profit. So if I’m in for $90 and out for $500, yeah, I’ll leave $40. The percentage goes down as the cash goes up though, so if I cash for $2,000, I’m probably only leaving $100. But I’ll freely admit that that’s how I tip in cardrooms where the dealers know me. If I’m at Foxwoods, I’m probably tipping half as much. That’s just life (though I think it might still be on the generous side of things.)

And I’ll say this. If I’m in for $90, and 7 hours later I min cash for $100, I’m pocketing that full ten bucks profit for my 7 hours of work, and not feeling bad about it. Sorry, dealers.

Cash games a good tip is just $1 every pot won. And maybe a couple extra bucks on a bigger pot relative to the size of the game played. For tournies, I personally tip about 5% of profit when i cash.

Ok, not to derail the derailment of this thread, but @casinochipper22 , do you have any insight into harvesting live chips (buying and then leaving with chips from the casino), and specifically the best way to get new or lightly used chips rather than hooker-juice crusted bicycle tires?

the best chips would be tucked away in the back of the cage. not sure how to get those. If you just want a lot of chips, in my experience its pretty easy to get chips out of a poker room vs table games.

 

[casinochipper22]

Can't find the clip, but it went down something like this:

Someone bets the river. He pushes in a tall stack, pulls it back, takes back some chips and pushes in a smaller stack. Everyone starts complaining. Finally the TD shows up (Jack Effel, perhaps?) and he asks the dealer how far it was initially pushed. Based on that answer he allowed the second bet.

In the aftermath someone asks the TD "so I'm allowed do this?" and proceeds to push his entire stack forward (way less than the villain), then back, then tosses in one chip. The TD says no (!?!?). Not really sure what the logic was.


I'm not sure which rules were in play, but I remember a lot of complaining!


Yeah, I'm pretty sure where the line goes between a bet and a non-bet when there's a betting line in place , both ways have their respective pros and cons.

haha. I'm pretty sure I saw that clip on youtube. what a mess. when there is not an official betting line on the felt (there usually isn't) then its forward motion to indicate a bet. And the threshold for forward motion usually starts and ends with your cards. because cards are usually a inch or two infront of your chip stack. so if you move your chips from your stack past your cards that is enough for fwd motion. If we are thinking about the same clip then, then the floor made the wrong decision because he didn't get all the information from the dealer. Toughest part for a floor is getting all the information from the dealer. You can't listen to 9 players yelling at you telling you 9 different things from 9 different points of view.

Welcome man!
After all this humorous thread-jacking, you may rename the current thread "Hello" and a start a proper Rules and Rulings 101 thread.

I 've reached the conclusion that, at least for home games, where casualness prevails and hence it's more of a threat, any action involving chips (call, bet, raise) should be compulsorily verbal (starting with any of those three words) and binding. What about that?

i didn't even understand the question. lol. sorry

in a home game, if a friend messes up just tell him to stop drinking and acting a fool. If its the fish at the table doing something stupid, let them do whatever they want and pour them another drink, and say they are playing excellent poker . If someone is actually taking shots (not the drink, but the angle) at a home game of all places, cash them out and show them the door. But in general. Verbal is binding if you want it. Anything that causes substantial action is definitely binding.

 

[upNdown]

Here's one for you - a topic I brought up today. A player at the table has a friend/significant other pull up a chair behind them to watch. If I'm sitting next to the player and I'm concerned that the watcher can see my hole cards, will you tell the watcher to beat it?

 

[casinochipper22]

Here's one for you - a topic I brought up today. A player at the table has a friend/significant other pull up a chair behind them to watch. If I'm sitting next to the player and I'm concerned that the watcher can see my hole cards, will you tell the watcher to beat it?

Not necessarily. I'd just ask the spectator to back up a lil. If the player is really be annoying about it then yes. I'd have to ask theperson to watch from another angle and move because the player is the customer.

 

[warma]

How can we pick a good dealer to work our home game and what’s a going rate in cities?

What’s a funny noob player story?

Do dealers care about underage players (assuming they’re not obviously a child)?

 

[casinochipper22]

How can we pick a good dealer to work our home game and what’s a going rate in cities?

What’s a funny noob player story?

Do dealers care about underage players (assuming they’re not obviously a child)?

I'd say Experience when looking for a "good dealer" after a year they should be pretty knowledgeable. No clue on going rate. I know down here dealers jyst work for tips. And that's pretty huge. Like 50+ an hour.

Noob story, player asked me to play while holding up a tournament structure sheet. I said great, sign up at the cage. 15 minutes later i hear a big uproar at the tourny table, then FLOOR! I run over. And the guy i told to sign up though he was playing a cash game and had put his chips in is pocket and told the dealer he wanted to cash out... Uggggg. Then he spelt the next 10 minutes yelling at me because i didn't explain to him the difference. SMH. and yeah. Atleast in my room we cared. Big violation.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Here's one for you - a topic I brought up today. A player at the table has a friend/significant other pull up a chair behind them to watch. If I'm sitting next to the player and I'm concerned that the watcher can see my hole cards, will you tell the watcher to beat it?

Here's one back at you...

Did you ask the observer to scoot, ask the dealer if it's ok, or did you just sit and mumble until you could get a PCF ruling?

 

[upNdown]

Here's one back at you...

Did you ask the observer to scoot, ask the dealer if it's ok, or did you just sit and mumble until you could get a PCF ruling?

I've never actually been in that position - I've never had the observer behind me. Several times, there's been an observer across the table or down on the end or whatever. I think I've made it clear that that presence annoys me, but I wouldn't feel like I'd have the "right" to ask them to be moved, unless there was a direct line of sight to my cards sort of an issue.

 

[casinochipper22]

Here's one back at you...

Did you ask the observer to scoot, ask the dealer if it's ok, or did you just sit and mumble until you could get a PCF ruling?

Never ask the dealer something like that. They just deal the cards. Never slow down the game! Sit and mumble? Not sure i follow.

 

[casinochipper22]

I've never actually been in that position - I've never had the observer behind me. Several times, there's been an observer across the table or down on the end or whatever. I think I've made it clear that that presence annoys me, but I wouldn't feel like I'd have the "right" to ask them to be moved, unless there was a direct line of sight to my cards sort of an issue.

As a player i guess you have the right being a customer. Its kinda a dick move in my opinion. But if you truly think they are influencing the game in anyway then you have every right to bring it up. I would get up from the table and tell a floor away from the table if it was me

 

[casinochipper22]

As a player i guess you have the right being a customer. Its kinda a dick move in my opinion. But if you truly think they are influencing the game in anyway then you have every right to bring it up. I would get up from the table and tell a floor away from the table if it was me

something as innocent as someone observing the poker table you are playing on shouldn't be enough to tilt you... You gotta keep your cool to win! Think to yourself, this person has a front row seat to watch me take all his friends chips!

 

[Poker Zombie]

Never ask the dealer something like that. They just deal the cards. Never slow down the game! Sit and mumble? Not sure i follow.

If anyone that is obviously connected to a player sits in sight of my cards, I'm going to make a comment if I'm not comfortable - which is Up's case.

For me personally, I'd probably do better if my cards were face-up. That way when I raise, and they laugh, I'd know to fold the next street.

 

[Saoliver]

I actually broke up with a girl I was living with... because she put ketchup on her eggs. I would rather acquiesce my position in the great hotdog sandwich debate than budge an inch on the ketchup/eggs food atrocity.

Agreed. But how do you feel about hot sauce on eggs?

 

[Poker Zombie]

Agreed. But how do you feel about hot sauce on eggs?

I'm ok with a chef's preparation that involved a spice. That may involve hot sauce, but hot sauce is the lowest common denominator.

Basic food requirements (of the purpose of this thread) need....

• Fat (examples: eggs, cheese, meat, butter)
• Acid (examples: vinegar, citrus, Spicy Pepper, tomato)

To round out the meal, you also need sweet and salty, and a starch is also quite helpful as it fills the belly without breaking the budget.

Problem is, Ketchup on eggs is more sweet than acid. You will get nauseous from sweetness that heartburn from acid by eating a bowl of ketchup. I loved ketchup as a child, but since have evolved to the point that a single bottle of ketchup will last me about 5 years - and that's only because I provide it as an option on poker night.

If I'm looking for acid on eggs, I go to vinegar. You've not had an Egg McMuffin until you get one with pickles.

...and once you've tried it.... you're welcome.

 

[casinochipper22]

I've never actually been in that position - I've never had the observer behind me. Several times, there's been an observer across the table or down on the end or whatever. I think I've made it clear that that presence annoys me, but I wouldn't feel like I'd have the "right" to ask them to be moved, unless there was a direct line of sight to my cards sort of an issue.

As a player/customer you can always bring it up to a floor. Whatever is bothering you. Believe me, I've heard it all. And then let the floor decide what to do. I think it's best to bring stuff like that up to a floor away from the table. This is my first time on a thread/forum. So I'm trying to figure out who is saying what and asking what. So my other answers might seem random. Still trying to figure this out... Hopefully that helps. But don't hesitate to bring something up. Maybe the floor agrees and moves the player. Or he can tell you it's no big deal.

 

[Mr Winberg]

@casinochipper22, have you ever worked at a casino with strange house rules? If so, what's the weirdest one?

For example:

I once had to show first in position when the river went check-check because I bet the turn and therefore made the last aggressive action. This was at a casino in London.
Everyone was like "don't you know the rules?" except one guy who defended me, pointing out that the rest of the world handles it differently.

 

[casinochipper22]

@casinochipper22, have you ever worked at a casino with strange house rules? If so, what's the weirdest one?

For example:

thats a funny example because that was the rule in our room. Last aggressive action towards the pot shows first. it was the dumbest thing for 3-6 games. at showdown the old grumpy players would be like, you bet the flop!!! because obviously there were rarely any bets after flop and almost no raising. haha

And unfortunately i've only worked in one room, but played in a lot. so i only have experiene with one set of rules.

 

[JustinInMN]

thats a funny example because that was the rule in our room. Last aggressive action towards the pot shows first. it was the dumbest thing for 3-6 games. at showdown the old grumpy players would be like, you bet the flop!!! because obviously there were rarely any bets after flop and almost no raising.

This is the rule in "According to Hoyle" when I read that as a teenager (20hrmrmrmr something years ago.) I just assumed at some point, modern poker rules just switch to showing in order when there is no action on the final round given that's easier and faster than trying to remember previous streets.

 

[casinochipper22]

This is the rule in "According to Hoyle" when I read that as a teenager (20hrmrmrmr something years ago.) I just assumed at some point, modern poker rules just switch to showing in order when there is no action on the final round given that's easier than trying to remember previous streets.

yeah. its surprising how each house has subtle differences in the rules and how they interpret. It would be so much easier if we has standardized cash game rules like the TDA did for tourny poker. maybe someday

 

[grebe]

I dont have anything to ask right now, but welcome and thanks for weeding thru the bullshit posts and lending your expertise! Rulings and proceedings questions are some of my favorites.

 

[JustinInMN]

yeah. its surprising how each house has subtle differences in the rules and how they interpret. It would be so much easier if we has standardized cash game rules like the TDA did for tourny poker. maybe someday

That actually leads me to a question I have for you. I know Robert's Rules of Poker and Caro and Cooke's were both attempts do this, and Robert's is widely used by the hosts on this board. Do casinos rely on such rulesets, or are they written from scratch? How do they compare to these sorts of rulesets? Are they readily available for players to read? I've never actually asked a floor, but I don't see a book laying around to peek at either .

 

[JustinInMN]

I dont have anything to ask right now, but welcome and thanks for weeding thru the bullshit posts and lending your expertise! Rulings and proceedings questions are some of my favorites.

There has definitely been a lack of these threads since the lockdowns began and I definitely miss this bit of hosts on PCF helping each other out. These threads will only be made better by @casinochipper22 's presence when they ramp up again.

 

[casinochipper22]

That actually leads me to a question I have for you. I know Robert's Rules of Poker and Caro and Cooke's were both attempts do this, and Robert's is widely used by the hosts on this board. Do casinos rely on such rulesets, or are they written from scratch? How do they compare to these sorts of rulesets? Are they readily available for players to read? I've never actually asked a floor, but I don't see a book laying around to peek at either .

good question man. I think I read about Robets's Rules and some other book about dealing etiquette like 15 years ago. So completely forgot about those. Each poker room has a "rule book" I helped write my poker rooms book from scratch because I was there day one. If you have a regular room you can ask to see it. They should provide it for you. And some bigger rooms might actually have like a player copy you can take. I know commerce does. If I remember correctly the management does need to provide a copy of rules to anyone who asks. But rule or not, a good floor should be happy that a player cares enough to want to take a look at it.

 

[JustinInMN]

If I remember correctly the management does need to provide a copy of rules to anyone who asks. But rule or not, a good floor should be happy that a player cares enough to want to take a look at it.

I'm definitely on friendly terms with a lot of the floorpersons at my home track, I will think to do this next time I think of it.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Any famous people ever play in your room?

 

[warma]

I'm definitely on friendly terms with a lot of the floorpersons at my home track, I will think to do this next time I think of it.

Do share.

 

[Mr Winberg]

It's been an interesting read so far! All of these people:

Ketchup

Ketchup

Ketchup

ketchup

ketchup

ketchup

ketchup

ketchup

Ketchup

ketchup

ketchup

ketchup

...really need to

Spoiler: They need to what?

 

[JustinInMN]

Do share.

Oh just a product of my twenties when I was playing live 20-25 hours a week grinding out 8/16 limit part-time. I am still a known face at the track even though family has reduced my participation.

 

[ArielVer18]

haha. I'm pretty sure I saw that clip on youtube. what a mess. when there is not an official betting line on the felt (there usually isn't) then its forward motion to indicate a bet. And the threshold for forward motion usually starts and ends with your cards. because cards are usually a inch or two infront of your chip stack. so if you move your chips from your stack past your cards that is enough for fwd motion. If we are thinking about the same clip then, then the floor made the wrong decision because he didn't get all the information from the dealer. Toughest part for a floor is getting all the information from the dealer. You can't listen to 9 players yelling at you telling you 9 different things from 9 different points of view.

IIRC there's never been a forward motion rule at the WSOP. Robert's Rule of Poker, which a lot of members here uses, also doesn't have a forward motion rule. Chips are not binding until they are "released" into the pot. Unfortunately, "released" is vaguely defined.

I have a local cardroom that makes it pretty explicit. If a player slides a bunch of chips forward in one motion, all chips are binding. If a player grabs a bunch of chips, releases some, then pulls the rest of the chips back, only the released chips are binding.