What is going on here? W/ sales (11 Viewers)

[Jake14mw]

Every time I see another thread go up like this, I am like...
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All I can tell you is you get what you want out of this forum, period.
If you choose to get in the drama then you will receive drama. If you want to concentrate on buying and selling then thats what you get. If you want to be a seller then be a seller. I see many on here that are "members" and 99% of their adds are sales adds. Is this wrong? I am not one to say it is wrong. This is how they choose to participate in our forum.

Community is a word that is used very loosely to describe all that are in this group. I think of it more like we have many communities within the community. There is a community of Chip collectors, a community of friends, a community of sellers, a community of buyers, a community of flippers and so on. Some people may call them cliques other will call them communities! Chose you community or communities that you like and get involved.

To the newbies, get involved where you think you want to be and get involved. There are a bunch of great people here that can help.

I will add that I have never put anyone on my ignore list. I find it kind of funny that people cannot just read a post and move on if they do not like it. I see them put them open ignore and then un-ignore them to make comments. I also see people saying you are on my ignore list and thence them commenting on posts. If I disagree with someone I choose to ignore what they write but not ignore the person.

So to all the members, what is your community?

Enjoy the hobby and know there are many, many other forums and subsets of collectors that go through the same thing we keep "beating a dead horse" over.

Find you hobby happiness from within!

Keep on Chipping!

Well said!

 

[upNdown]

It doesn't take much for the cost to get up there. Something like this and you are looking at $5.72 per chip without artwork, shipping, and tax.

That's true, but how many casino chips do you see with that pattern? Not too many, because it's a luxury pattern, I think.
The sad part of this is that GPI can produce that chip for 1/3 to 1/4th as much as CPC can. But when we get access to gpi/paulson chips like that, they're marked up 4x.
lose lose.

 

[Jake14mw]

I have a couple of playing cards group buys on the back burner for later this year, but yes, lots of people have group buy fatigue from the cards mold buy and from the King and two Angel group buys last year. I'm letting things settle down a bit before unleashing more cards. Mainly because I want to help @Josh Kifer have enough cards to literally build a house made of them.

I hope that one of the GBs is a Kings poker size group buy. I think that is my favorite poker size card. Too bad what happened with the bridge size.

 

[bluegill]

That's true, but how many casino chips do you see with that pattern? Not too many, because it's a luxury pattern, I think.

I'm not going digging for a bunch of examples, but off the top of my head Jacks $1000 chips used 8d18 spots. So they are out there.

 

[Rhodeman77]

This DSQ set cost me under $3/chip on average. Guess my taste in edge spots isn’t as expensive as others. I think the level 2-4 spots have some really great options.

 

[Eriks]

I'm not going digging for a bunch of examples, but off the top of my head Jacks $1000 chips used 8d18 spots. So they are out there.

Yeah sure, but that tends to be the case with the bigger denoms only. How often do you see really complex fracs through $25s?

 

[WedgeRock]

This viewpoint cracks me up every time I hear it. Jim does not sell chips cheap because he wants to hook up all of his buddies. He sells them for whatever he thinks he can get for them. If he tried to sell his ~300,000 $1 HSI chips for $2 each, he'd never sell through them, not even 10% of them. The guy has profited more off of this community than anyone (literally millions of dollars), and the only time he ever pops his head in here is when he scores more chips to sell us lol. He's not a chipper. Nothing wrong with that, but you guys really should stop kidding yourselves that he's some modern-day Robin Hood just hooking up all of his buddies then getting "taken advantage of" by "flippers". If it weren't for all those "flippers", he would just have a warehouse full of chips rather than a bank account full of your money.

Your viewpoint is a little oversimplified (and frankly, sounds salty, after missing out on a chip purchase where I assume you intended to do the exact same thing, but your offer did not net you the chips). I have no idea what Jim pays per chip, but I'm going to use your estimate of 10¢-20¢ per chip, as it seems at least plausible, and you have more insight into per chip cost than I do.

That "cost" is just for the chips and ignores all the other overhead. Jim has mentioned lawyers a few times; they are expensive. He has costs associated with obtaining the chips (flights), getting them back to his warehouse (gas, rental truck) and the man hours associated with loading/unloading, sorting, listing, shipping and issueing refunds. Plus, the time he spent making the contacts and developing the relationships that allow him to continue to land these deals.

It's not simply buying a chip for 20¢ and flipping it for $1.29. When you factor in all the other costs, Jim pays more than 20¢ per chip.

Yes, I believe Jim does well for himself. Yes, I believe he sells them for the maximum he can while not sitting on a hoard of chips for too long. But to compare him the the flippers who buy a rack for $x and within a month try to sell it for 2.5x, that's disingenuous.

 

[bluegill]

Yeah sure, but that tends to be the case with the bigger denoms only. How often do you see really complex fracs through $25s?

Guys, I didn't come here to debate. I simply answered a question with an example of how the prices for CPC can reach $5+. You all have fun with the debating. I'll show myself out of this thread now.

 

[Thomacetti]

Average price for a car is 60k if you consider a Brand new luxury German car average.

German cars can double in MSRP when you go crazy in options
Same for CPC...but you ALWAYS get what you pay for.

 

[arch3r]

I'm not going digging for a bunch of examples, but off the top of my head Jacks $1000 chips used 8d18 spots. So they are out there.

True - But how many $1k chips does a casino have vs $1 chips? That's the point - average-wise, the higher level spots are used on few chips so the average cost of CPCs should be based on more like L3

 

[BGinGA]

A CPC set with broad appeal that was designed and made really well would fetch the cost of the set (and then some). I can think of a few sets that I'd pay actual cost for.

Has that ever happened? I can't remember seeing a set of customs sell for CPC retail, let alone whatever the additional costs were (like art.)

There have been a few custom ASM/CPC sets sell for big bucks in the market. Several now live in Bradenton FL. A few other sets would too, if ever offered for sale.

But as a general rule, most custom ASM/CPC sets won't sell for their initial cost. Not so much with custom BCC or TRK sets, since those can't be made any longer.

 

[Eriks]

Guys, I didn't come here to debate. I simply answered a question with an example of how the prices for CPC can reach $5+. You all have fun with the debating. I'll show myself out of this thread now.

Yes of course it can reach $5+/chip but saying that a cpc set will average that cost per chip in order to be a good set just isn’t true imo

 

[Marius L]

True - But how many $1k chips does a casino have vs $1 chips? That's the point - average-wise, the higher level spots are used on few chips so the average cost of CPCs should be based on more like L3

Then again GPI doesnt price chips the same way as CPC. The spots are somewhat irrelevant when ordering chips from a casinos point of view. So its not like they are "saving the expensive chips for the high denoms"

 

[viet rounder]

You can get a nice custom set with basic options. That is true. If you look at my all time favourite, CU Next Tuesday, the options are all very basic but the overall execution was very well done. So YES, it can be done

But....

most of my favourite options with CPC are at L9 , L10 , and L11. If I were to create MY dream set it would average about $5-7 per chip. Note that I don’t follow the conventional rules of assigning the most complex (and expensive) edgespots for the higher denom. I believe that the workhorse chip should always be assigned with your favourite edgespot option since it’s going to be in play the most. So for my DREAM set it’s going to cost me a pretty penny.

 

[upNdown]

There have been a few custom ASM/CPC sets sell for big bucks in the market. Several now live in Bradenton FL.

Yeah those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, but I believe two of those sets were actually raffled off. And a raffle really doesn’t give you a market value.

Anyway, I think we all agree that the list of custom sets that would resell for retail is short.

 

[Josh Kifer]

This is correct, but @RainmanTrail is correct as well. One can design a really kick ass custom CPC set for $3 per chip or under. It's near impossible to do with all really complex edge spots, however.

Edit: that said, $3/chip or just under that is still way more than most here are able or willing to spend on customs, given the poor rate of return in the resale market. I disagree somewhat with that mentality, though. In designing my CPC sets, these are chips that are going to be played with and loved by my players and I for years to come. They'll be in good enough shape to pass down to my kids and may even last until their kids. I don't design and buy CPC chips with the intent of selling.

In the short term, yes, I agree with @72o , they are not an investment destined to make money in the resale market. But I do disagree with the concept of CPC's not being a long term investment, given the years of play I plan on getting out of them. I hope to be able to pass them down from generation to generation as family heirlooms.

My CP set was 80% under 3 bucks a chip, even with shaped inlays.

I'll say, it takes alot more time and refinement to work with the cheaper spots, but it's very doable.

 

[BGinGA]

Yeah sure, but that tends to be the case with the bigger denoms only. How often do you see really complex fracs through $25s?

That's merely a matter of taste and desire, not cost.

True - But how many $1k chips does a casino have vs $1 chips? That's the point - average-wise, the higher level spots are used on few chips so the average cost of CPCs should be based on more like L3

These arguments fail when you consider that casinos typically do not pay 'extra' for complex spots (and when it is extra, the cost is trivial).

The vision and requirements for spot pattern usage by casinos is completely different than that of a set builder/collector.

 

[Thomacetti]

In customs sets section you can see the master creative brains shine....

Everyone can slap together a nice set with L9 and up....but the people I admire are able to create insane sets that look maxed out (level wise) but in fact they are
not.

The vision and requirements for spot pattern usage by casinos is completely different than that of a set builder/collector.

Yes, that's why it was so easy to spot that boat chips could have never been made by non-chippers.

Mint 8v oversized yellow 20's or 8v 25c (ESc) in quantity....sure, when pigs fly

 

[cpiaaq]

My CP set was 80% under 3 bucks a chip, even with shaped inlays.

I'll say, it takes alot more time and refinement to work with the cheaper spots, but it's very doable.

dibs
but seriously, my favorite CPC set

 

[arch3r]

These arguments fail when you consider that casinos typically do not pay 'extra' for complex spots (and when it is extra, the cost is trivial).

The vision and requirements for spot pattern usage by casinos is completely different than that of a set builder/collector.

I understand that. But what casino's pay for chips was not the point. The point was that more complex spots are usually on the higher denoms ( even in casinos ) and there are fewer of those chips in any set for the most part. So to quote an average chip price of CPCs at $5-$6 is too high since most chips in any set are in the L2-L4 range putting the average chip cost at something more like $3-$3.50.

 

[ekricket]

There have been a few custom ASM/CPC sets sell for big bucks in the market. Several now live in Bradenton FL. A few other sets would too, if ever offered for sale.

But as a general rule, most custom ASM/CPC sets won't sell for their initial cost. Not so much with custom BCC or TRK sets, since those can't be made any longer.

I figure if you had a set in the Custom HOF it might be worth more.

 

[allforcharity]

My planned small CPC set will probably average just a little over $3 a chip. Still will look good, in my opinion.

 

[Eriks]

My planned small CPC set will probably average just a little over $3 a chip. Still will look good, in my opinion.

Mine is about $2.80/chip and will also look pretty darn good. I’m biased though

 

[viet rounder]

For the average chip price to be $3.5 you would have to choose the A , or HH mold at L5 and below. Not saying an incredible set can’t be done, just stating the limitations.

 

[arch3r]

For the average chip price to be $3.5 you would have to choose the A , or HH mold at L5 and below. Not saying an incredible set can’t be done, just stating the limitations.

No. You can chose any 39mm mold with L5 for a max of $3.40/chip. That gives you 30+ spots to chose from. It's quite doable to make amazing sets with those parameters. And chose a L2/L3 for the work horse chips and splurge on the high demon and still keep it under $3.50/chip

 

[cpac54]

My recent CPC set ran $3.52/chip including shipping. Artwork and import/duty fees you can tack onto that still.

In the end, I went with the exact mold and exact edge spots I wanted. Worth every penny.

 

[cpac54]

No. You can chose any 39mm mold with L5 for a max of $3.40/chip. That gives you 30+ spots to chose from. It's quite doable to make amazing sets with those parameters. And chose a L2/L3 for the work horse chips and splurge on the high demon and still keep it under $3.50/chip

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Don’t forget the upcharge if you use a DG colour as the base colour. IIRC, that’s 10 Cents per chip or so.

 

[Tommy]

Some of those high-level spots don't do anything for me. They are just too busy. More is side paint isn't always better.

 

[viet rounder]

No. You can chose any 39mm mold with L5 for a max of $3.40/chip. That gives you 30+ spots to chose from. It's quite doable to make amazing sets with those parameters. And chose a L2/L3 for the work horse chips and splurge on the high demon and still keep it under $3.50/chip

View attachment 607001

So if I chose the DSQ at L5 it $3.4. After artfees, tax, and shipping I’m pretty sure the average chip is going to be more than$3.5.

Anyways I’m not here to stir up anything. I was adding to an earlier comment that prices per custom chips on a dream set is not much far off from the increasing Paulson price. The conversation kinda turned directions

 

[hdgeno]

Your viewpoint is a little oversimplified (and frankly, sounds salty, after missing out on a chip purchase where I assume you intended to do the exact same thing, but your offer did not net you the chips). I have no idea what Jim pays per chip, but I'm going to use your estimate of 10¢-20¢ per chip, as it seems at least plausible, and you have more insight into per chip cost than I do.

That "cost" is just for the chips and ignores all the other overhead. Jim has mentioned lawyers a few times; they are expensive. He has costs associated with obtaining the chips (flights), getting them back to his warehouse (gas, rental truck) and the man hours associated with loading/unloading, sorting, listing, shipping and issueing refunds. Plus, the time he spent making the contacts and developing the relationships that allow him to continue to land these deals.

It's not simply buying a chip for 20¢ and flipping it for $1.29. When you factor in all the other costs, Jim pays more than 20¢ per chip.

Yes, I believe Jim does well for himself. Yes, I believe he sells them for the maximum he can while not sitting on a hoard of chips for too long. But to compare him the the flippers who buy a rack for $x and within a month try to sell it for 2.5x, that's disingenuous.

Thank you for saying this in a much more eloquent way than I was thinking (hence why I hadn’t posted)!