Interesting Hand $25/$50/$100 NLHE (1 Viewer)

[ngmcs8203]

Donation while holding the 5th flush and what, the 15th nuts?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Donation while holding the 5th flush and what, the 15th nuts?

Gotta make sure to say "Yeah man, you had a flush, nothing you could do!"

 

[krafticus]

Weird line by V1 with the flush and check on the turn. I mean, that’s what you hope to hit when calling the flop bet, and if you put someone on a bigger flush, that would be the time to fold. I guess maybe a check-raise, but anyone without the flush will most likely see a free river card, and hope to improve.

 

[drdr]

Total pot size dragged?

 

[WedgeRock]

Total pot size dragged?

$98k-ish.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Donation while holding the 5th flush and what, the 15th nuts?

He stole my move. Motherfucker.

 

[Legend5555]

Donation indeed.

 

[SwissChip]

Nice Hand!

 

[BGinGA]

Hero is never folding. The only question is, what is more likely to get V1 to commit his stack, flatting or re-shoving?

V1 has hero and V2 covered. V1 checked the river. If he is calling V1's bet, he's calling hero's re-shove; he's not folding because we're making it $5k more. And the converse, if he's folding to hero's re-shove, he probably was folding to V2's shove. Bottom line, I don't think a hero flat vs a hero call is going to change what V1 does.

Not sure this line of thought is entirely accurate. I think it's beyond the actual call amount faced, and more to do with a) facing one vs two opponents, and b) how strong the second opponent appears to be.

In other words, he may be calling (or folding) V2's shove every time, but not-so-fast-freddie if hero is also still involved. Better pot odds with hero also being in the pot leans towards changing a fold into a call, and hero showing strength leans towards V1 finding a fold when initially considering a call of V2's shove. The extra 5k is immaterial, but V1's perception of hero's strength is not.

So what can hero do (or avoid) to help sway V1 to call? By staying in the hand but without indicating strength....and by indicating he would prefer to see V1 fold.

If weak=strong and strong=weak holds true, then raising all-in quickly and confidently by hero helps the most vs just quietly calling.

 

[Mandos]

So what can hero do (or avoid) to help sway V1 to call? By staying in the hand but without indicating strength....and by indicating he would prefer to see V1 fold.

If weak=strong and strong=weak holds true, then raising all-in quickly and confidently by hero helps the most vs just quietly calling.

I tend to agree with this line of logic in general especially if V2 weren't already all in, but my concern is that an all-in with next to nothing on top (5k compared to the 25k previous all-in) to me never reads as an all-in bluff, since V2 can't be bet off his hand and the extra 5k on it's own is never getting V1 to fold. I think the weakest looking option for hero here is some sort of slow crying call.
I guess what i'm saying is i'm not sure how much weak=strong and strong=weak holds true when one guy is already all in (so bluffing isn't on the table) and a shove is effectively the same as a call when it comes to pot odds.

 

[BGinGA]

I tend to agree with this line of logic in general especially if V2 weren't already all in, but my concern is that an all-in with next to nothing on top (5k compared to the 25k previous all-in) to me never reads as an all-in bluff, since V2 can't be bet off his hand and the extra 5k on it's own is never getting V1 to fold. I think the weakest looking option for hero here is some sort of slow crying call.
I guess what i'm saying is i'm not sure how much weak=strong and strong=weak holds true when one guy is already all in (so bluffing isn't on the table) and a shove is effectively the same as a call when it comes to pot odds.

I understand what you're saying, but I'd consider a 'slow crying call' with another player yet to act as a classic weak=strong ploy, while an enthusiastic shove (regardless of actual size) as strong=weak -- and not necessarily meant as a bluff per se, but just getting all of their chips in play.

This is almost a "Princess Bride" discussion, lol.

 

[MrCatPants]

I understand what you're saying, but I'd consider a 'slow crying call' with another player yet to act as a classic weak=strong ploy, while an enthusiastic shove (regardless of actual size) as strong=weak -- and not necessarily meant as a bluff per se, but just getting all of their chips in play.

This is almost a "Princess Bride" discussion, lol.

Is V1 a Sicillian?

 

[Mandos]

This is almost a "Princess Bride" discussion, lol.

This was going to be my next answer lol.

 

[MrCatPants]

This was going to be my next answer lol.

I have a new idea for a card capper.

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You kill my hand, prepare to die."

Copyright mrcatpants.

Vendor status incoming.

 

[TheOffalo]

Villains’ hands were mostly dead, and mostly dead is slightly alive…

 

[BGinGA]

I have a new idea for a card capper.

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You kill my hand, prepare to die."

Copyright mrcatpants.

Vendor status incoming.

Don't forget the related Bounty chips:

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my stack, prepare to die."

 

[allforcharity]

Don't forget the related Bounty chips:

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my stack, prepare to die."

For bounty, I'd rather use "INCONCEIVABLE!"

 

[WedgeRock]

For bounty, I'd rather use "INCONCEIVABLE!"

That's the rebuy chip.

 

[JustinInMN]

So late to the party. I think the river decision is clear. Hero is never folding 2nd full house after checking two-pair on the turn. And according to the stack sizes in the original post, hero only has V2 covered by 4K, so I don't think in a pot this size, that extra 4K is going to tip any of V1's calling hands to folds.

Back on the river, if it is true V2 had AT, it's an interesting choice by V2 to make a blocker play with trips here, I would think a pro wouldn't make this play if he has the same read on V1 as hero does. I think if you shove three tens here, you are kind of turning this hand into a bluff in hopes a player might fold a small flush. It helps from V2's perspective that you block the nuts and partially block full houses, at the same time, hero's read on V1 is that he don't make hero folds on the river. Maybe V2 is hoping V1 will make a crying call with a random Qx somehow? I would certainly be fascinated by that perspective.

I think the preflop and turn decision points are the the most fascinating with this hand.

Preflop I think all 3 decisions run close, but if you believe in your read on V1, I think raising to try and isolate this player makes sense if you think V2 won't call a stiff re-raise. Obviously that's not how this hand played out.

The argument I could make for a call would be that given the read on V1, we aren't going to be able to bluff our way out of many spots and we only have Q-hi at showdown if we don't improve somewhere along the way. So let's let others in the pot to raise the upside when we do hit and we can just fit or fold this on the flop losing the minimum.

The argument I could make for folding pre is this is still an UTG raise, and V1 would have to be opening really wide to to make continuing with Q-hi worthwhile. If V2 is a solid pro and not-3-betting here, I am not going to give him credit for anything premium. I'm probably putting him on a set-mine or some suited connector type hand. Turns out he has AT, which would make sense too.

I don't think I could fault any decision pre on this.

As for the turn, this is fascinating, you are in a 3 way pot and the card that helps you also complete what seems to be the most obvious draw for one of the two villian's to have, especially if you aren't putting either villian on an overpair/set too often. So I get the check. But the downside to the check is that villains can have a lot of holdings with just one-club and checking gives them a free pull at outdrawing you again. I really don't know what the best choice is on the turn. In a heads-up pot, I would be more inclined to continue betting. In a 3 way pot and there just isn't a lot of calling hands available to villains other than flush draws, I think checking makes sense.