Hybrid cars/EVs (1 Viewer)

Do you own/want to own a hybrid vehicle?

  • I own at least one plug-in electric vehicle

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • I own at least one plug-in hybrid vehicle

    Votes: 4 8.7%
  • I own at least one gas-powered hybrid vehicle

    Votes: 9 19.6%
  • I only own gas-powered vehicles, but am considering owning a hybrid/EV

    Votes: 12 26.1%
  • I only own gas-power vehicles and will only purchase a hybrid/EV if it will save me money

    Votes: 12 26.1%
  • I don't own a car

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • I will never purchase a hybrid/EV, even if it will save me money

    Votes: 7 15.2%

  • Total voters
    46

snooptodd

3 of a Kind
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One of the parts of my job is to monitor a forum we run, and someone on that forum posted a poll about hybrid cars/EVs in response to the climate talks in Paris, and I'm curious what folks here drive and think about hybrids/EVs.

Do you own an electric vehicle or a hybrid car? If so, what was your reasoning for buying it? If not, are you considering buying one?
 
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We own a gas-powered Honda Civic hybrid as well as a standard Honda Odyssey.

We average 40 miles per gallon (more when I drive -- it's my wife's commuting car, and she has a bit of a lead foot). A non-hybrid Honda Civic is estimated to get 28-30 mpg.

The added cost wan't insignificant -- the hybrid was about $8,000 more than a non-hybrid Civic. The question is, has it been worth it as a pure financial proposition?

Over the last 5+ years, we've driven the car just over 70,000 miles, and after doing a bit of research, I'd estimate the average price of gas over that period was around $3.25. Assuming 40 miles per gallon as an average over the lifetime of our ownership of the car, we've purchased 1,750 gallons of gas. Had we bought a standard, non-hybrid Civic and averaged 30 miles per gallon, we would have purchased 2,333 gallons, or 583 more. Multiply that by $3.25, and we've saved approximately $1,900 in gas costs, so on the face of it, the savings does not justify the additional cost.

I always knew that the gas prices alone would never justify a hybrid in a purely financial sense, at least not while gas prices remained below $4-$5/gallon, but I thought that when it came time to trade in the car, should we decide to do that, the difference would be negligible. So you can imagine my surprise to find that a standard Civic with the same mileage and condition has a Kelly Blue Book value $1600 MORE than our hybrid ($7,500 vs. $5,900). I'm not sure if this is a glitch in the KBB site or if hybrids simply aren't in high demand right now because gas prices are barely over $2/gallon.

That said, we plan to continue driving this car for quite some time, perhaps until our oldest child can drive, and that won't be for another 7 years. Assuming it lasts that long, we'll have put close to another 100k miles on it, meaning a net reduction of about 1,400 gallons of gas over the lifetime of the vehicle. It's impossible to say where gas prices will go over that time, but assuming they average $3/gallon, over the lifetime of the vehicle we'd save about $4,400 in gasoline costs. At that point, my guess is the difference between the value of a standard vs. hybrid vehicle would be negligible, as its value would mostly be in what it would garner if sold for scrap.

Beyond the financial impact, burning a gallon of gas produces 20 lbs of CO2, so using 1400 fewer gallons of gas produces 14 tons less CO2. Considering my household produces about 10 tons of CO2 per year for heat and electricity (math omitted, but based on some research I think this is a good estimate), this car will reduce my family's carbon footprint by 1.5 years of heat/electricity usage over its lifetime at a cost of about $3,600 over a 12-year period, or less than a $1/day. For some that may not be worth it. But it's a price that I'm willing to pay.
 
I have a hybrid and I like it, but only bought it because it was the best deal I found at the time. I would/will buy a plug-in electric once they get the range up and plug-in service stations become more common.
 
I voted have gas but will buy EV if it saves money. I'm hoping the bottom line will improve by the time come home. Because of my mountain location, I need a good 4WD truck with a plow and a roller skate to do the errands. A pure electric vehicle is what I would want and will likely assemble a solar array to both feed the car and run the house.
 
We only own gas-powered cars, and that will remain true until the price of the alt-powered vehicles is the same/lower as gas-powered AND there are sufficient refueling stations available wherever we go.
 
I encourage everyone to read this "Wait But Why" series of articles on Elon Musk. They are long, but potentially life-altering. After reading how Tesla will change the world, I told my wife, "Let's hold on to the 2009 Santa Fe until we can get an electric in 2-3 years." The future is coming quicker than most people imagine.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html

We only own gas-powered cars, and that will remain true until the price of the alt-powered vehicles is the same/lower as gas-powered AND there are sufficient refueling stations available wherever we go.

This is unfortunately the short-sighted view of the majority of Americans. Gas-powered vehicles should cost *more* to reflect the long-term damage they inflict. Also, one of the main benefits to EVs is you don't have to stop for gas and have less maintenance chores. The time you save on those offsets those times you might have to wait for charges on long trips. But in life, as in poker, people are bad at EV calculations.
 
I encourage everyone to read this "Wait But Why" series of articles on Elon Musk. They are long, but potentially life-altering. After reading how Tesla will change the world, I told my wife, "Let's hold on to the 2009 Santa Fe until we can get an electric in 2-3 years." The future is coming quicker than most people imagine.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html

This is unfortunately the short-sighted view of the majority of Americans. Gas-powered vehicles should cost *more* to reflect the long-term damage they inflict. Also, one of the main benefits to EVs is you don't have to stop for gas and have less maintenance chores. The time you save on those offsets those times you might have to wait for charges on long trips. But in life, as in poker, people are bad at EV calculations.

Liked for the article and the sentiment regarding the price of gas (my favorite subject). I have a modest commute (22 miles), so obviously it's in my self-interest that gas is cheap, but it really is horrible long term.
 
I just like my 4 wheel drive trucks. I've owned one forever. For most of the time that I owned a truck I used it as such (hauling garden supplies, horse shit, towing, boats, ect...). Its just my preferred vehicle of choice.

B
 
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Lol at that option, though. Why the hell would anyone say they would never drive a hybrid/EV? It's someone in the 80s saying they'd never use a cell phone.

No, it's more like saying, "I'll never buy a car that takes unleaded fuel." Or, "I'll never eat chicken that wasn't kept in a cage and shot up with hormones and antibiotics."
 
The cost/performance ratio of EVs is improving, plus they're very quiet. I could definitely see owning one in my future, but not I'm not ready to go there, just yet. I bought a new gas-powered sedan this past weekend. I buy a new vehicle about every 12 years (Oct '93, Jun '05, Apr '17) , so I can definitely see the next one possibly being an EV; like a '27 to '29 model year Tesla, perhaps? I don't think I'd buy a hybrid, though. I'll probably stick with all gas, or go all electric.
 
I have a 2000 Honda Insight that I bought in late 2000 as a "prior year" car for a work commute and second car; we also had an Outback Wagon for hauling stuff and carting the dog.

I currently still have the Insight, I drive a Mazda daily, and have a deposit on a Tesla 3.
 
I am excited to own one, been eyeing a Tesla for the fun factor alone, but I will not feel compelled to buy one for environmental reasons until they are actually much better for the environment than the modern gas/diesel cars. The bigger you go (SUVs) the more benefits you see in terms of conservation and impact on the environment, but the majority of vehicles that are electric or hybrid that are available to us today are smaller cars and only offer something like 15% or so conservation, maybe less, can't remember. Add in the heavy metals required to make these cars and the impact that mining them has and it starts to get murky. Everybody thinks about the lithium in the batteries, and that's obvious, but think about the amount of copper an electric vehicle requires compared to a fossil fuel power plant. Disposing of them once we are done with them is another issue all together. Also, if you don't live in a place where the electricity you use to charge your vehicle comes from water power (something we definitely luck out with up here in the NW) it gets even further from the original intention.

All that being said, I can't wait to own one; 0-60 using launch mode in a Nissan GTR and ludicrous mode in a Model S is just something everybody in the world needs to experience. :)
 
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I have a deposit on a tesla model 3. I probably won't buy it. I don't think it will have adequate towing capacity for my jet skis.

I am all for a plug in EV, but range, towing capacity, and cold weather performance are key considerations.
 
I am thinking of buying a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Where I work, we have a couple of car parking spaces that have built in car charging points - so effectively for the majority of the travelling I'd be doing, I'd be getting free fuel...
 
I drive a 2016 Chevy Volt, which is a fully electric vehicle with a backup gas generator that kicks in when the EV range gets depleted (which is about 45 to 65 miles of EV range depending on the whether and your driving habits). It is unlike other hybrids which have gas engines that are assisted by the EV battery. The Volt is the other way around. I get about 40+ mpg when using gas. So it's great for road trips (the 9 gallon tank + 53 miles of EV range give me over 400 miles per fill up). I save around $250 per month in gas. Plus, I got about $13k in rebates when I bought it.

I love it! It's the best car I've ever owned! And this is coming from a guy who's last 3 vehicles were a Ford F-250, a Nissan Pathfinder, and a Lincoln Navigator.

I don't go around taking pics of my cars since it's not a poker chip, but this is exactly what it looks like:

upload_2017-4-16_0-52-38.png
 
Keeping this as short as possible:

Owned an LS400 - averaged 18l per 100km.
Bought a Prius - averages about 5l per 100km.

I have driven the Prius just over 80,000km in about 6 years. At 5l per 100km that's 4000l of fuel at average $1.50 per litre = $6000 to drive 80,000km.

Lexus, over 80,000km would have used 14,400 litres at $1.50 per litre = $21,600 to travel 80,000km.

That means the Prius has cost me (about) $15,600 less to travel 80,000km than my Lexus.

All this is not considering maintenance, insurance, registration and tyres - all of which were more expensive on the Lexus.

Having said that, the Prius is the most uninspiring, boring and underwhelming car I have ever owned. It is adequate in every way but exceptional only in its ability to use little fuel. Ultimately though, I need a car to get me from place to place, not to make me feel special or to pamper my butt as I drive along so the Prius wins.
The car gets standard services and tyres - that's it. It has given no problems and drives for the most part like any other petrol only car. For me it's ALL about the $$$. Not interested in saving the planet or hugging trees. Just want to save a buck where I can.

Gotta admit though, I do kinda miss the Lexus.....
 
I owned a Honda Insight that averaged 50 MPG. I have a deposit on the Tesla Model 3, but will only complete the purchase if the $7500 federal tax incentives are still available when my turn comes. I also looked at the Hyundai Ioniq hybrid yesterday and it is a nice car.
 
I own an altima hybrid that actually gets 198 horsepower. Nothing to write home about, but not dangerously underpowered like many/most hybrids. It's gas mileage is generally in the 35-39 mpg range - again, nothing to write home about, but better than most gas cars.
I would very very very much like to own a Tesla someday.
 
I encourage everyone to read this "Wait But Why" series of articles on Elon Musk. They are long, but potentially life-altering. After reading how Tesla will change the world, I told my wife, "Let's hold on to the 2009 Santa Fe until we can get an electric in 2-3 years." The future is coming quicker than most people imagine.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html

This is unfortunately the short-sighted view of the majority of Americans. Gas-powered vehicles should cost *more* to reflect the long-term damage they inflict. Also, one of the main benefits to EVs is you don't have to stop for gas and have less maintenance chores. The time you save on those offsets those times you might have to wait for charges on long trips. But in life, as in poker, people are bad at EV calculations.

You don't have to stop for gas in an EV, but you do have to eventually stop for a charge. So, it's still a stop, right? And, enjoy your wait time as your battery recharges. If/when you find a charging station. Meanwhile, those with gas will refill in 5 minutes and be on their way. Curious as to your calculations in this regard. Gas = drive 300 miles, refill tank in 5-10 minutes, repeat. EV = ??? The moment you electric charges wears out, you lose the time argument badly.

There is also another school of thought out there that efficiencies in gas-powered technology will up the mpg of gas-powered vehicles over time, resulting in even less of a difference/savings between gas and electric powered cars.

This doesn't even touch the creation and disposal costs (including the beloved carbon footprint) of the massive bank of batteries that is required of electric vehicles. There are plenty of scientifically-minded folks who question the actual environmental savings of EVs compared to gas when the creation and disposal process are considered.

I like the idea of an EV, and hope to own one someday, but I think it's short-sighted to think EVs are a panacea for the environment just because they don't burn gas.
 
I drive a 2016 Chevy Volt, which is a fully electric vehicle with a backup gas generator that kicks in when the EV range gets depleted (which is about 45 to 65 miles of EV range depending on the whether and your driving habits). It is unlike other hybrids which have gas engines that are assisted by the EV battery. The Volt is the other way around. I get about 40+ mpg when using gas. So it's great for road trips (the 9 gallon tank + 53 miles of EV range give me over 400 miles per fill up). I save around $250 per month in gas. Plus, I got about $13k in rebates when I bought it.

I love it! It's the best car I've ever owned! And this is coming from a guy who's last 3 vehicles were a Ford F-250, a Nissan Pathfinder, and a Lincoln Navigator.

I don't go around taking pics of my cars since it's not a poker chip, but this is exactly what it looks like:

View attachment 93745

Driven these at work and they are pretty slick. I don't do the F-250 route, zero need, but I'll never own a small car again, so Volts, Prius, Fusions are out for me.
 
You don't have to stop for gas in an EV, but you do have to eventually stop for a charge. So, it's still a stop, right? And, enjoy your wait time as your battery recharges. If/when you find a charging station. Meanwhile, those with gas will refill in 5 minutes and be on their way. Curious as to your calculations in this regard.

Many people with an electric car set up a charging station at home. They discover that on the vast majority of days, they drive less than the car's range. If you charge the car every night at home, you never have to stop for fuel while out... You leave, each morning, with a full tank. And the cost of the electricity is still much less than the cost of gas for a comparable car.

EDIT: Thought experiment. Next couple of times you buy gas, ask yourself - "would I need to be buying gas right now if I started the day with a full tank?" If I don't include vacation time, my answer is "no," pretty much all year long.
 
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Many people with an electric car set up a charging station at home. They discover that on the vast majority of days, they drive less than the car's range. If you charge the car every night at home, you never have to stop for fuel while out... You leave, each morning, with a full tank. And the cost of the electricity is still much less than the cost of gas for a comparable car.

EDIT: Thought experiment. Next couple of times you buy gas, ask yourself - "would I need to be buying gas right now if I started the day with a full tank?" If I don't include vacation time, my answer is "no," pretty much all year long.

Am honestly curious about this. Is it just a standard AC power plug? What's the effect on your home electricity usage and bill as a result of having the charge the car daily?
 
Lol at that option, though. Why the hell would anyone say they would never drive a hybrid/EV? It's someone in the 80s saying they'd never use a cell phone.
Hybrids, mainly the Prius, are the main cause of all traffic issues ..

While not fact, I'd say 90% of the time I see slow drivers, they are in a Prius. I understand that the fuel economy is better when driving slower, but come on. When they can make a hybrid with 350+ HP, I'll think about it. :)
 
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I moved so I'm half a mile away and can walk to and from work, suckit you environmental terrorists!

On the aside, I own a gas powered car and don't see myself purchasing a hybrid or electric unless it made fiscal sense. Likewise, I live in Florida but don't see myself converting to solar power unless financially it makes sense.
 
Read Chicken's linked article - so it appears that the appeal of electric or hybrid cars is to feel good about my carbon footprint, and it actually costs more (in some cases considerably so) to operate a car with a non-internal combustion engine?
 

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