Best Movies of 2015 (1 Viewer)

[jbutler]

I don't really think its analogous. I can appreciate a movie for what it is, and still not consider it a great movie. There are so many different genres of music out there, and I'm sure each one has its own subset of good and bad music. A closer analogy might be I might not consider an instrumental song great. I can appreciate it, but in order for it to be great it must also have great lyrics. I don't believe that to be the case, by the way, but its a closer analogy.

I just think an action movie can also have a decent plot, and while the action was A++, the plot was at a much lower level, and that is where the film lacked in my humble opinion. Still a good movie, and still worth watching, but not (to me anyway) a great movie. The dude playing the fiery guitar in the red pajamas was pretty cool though.

Can you conceive of a situation in which a more complex plot would actually detract from a movie? I think Halloween and Jaws are great examples of that and I would put MMFR in that category as well.

My point is that a film having a "decent plot" isn't necessary for it to be good, great or even among the best of all time because films aren't reliant on plot. If you require them for your own tastes, then you're cutting out a ton of the films that have been produced.

 

[Anthony Martino]

. The dude playing the fiery guitar in the red pajamas was pretty cool though.

Mad Max was absolute garbage. Agree on the dude in red pajama's though

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Can you conceive of a situation in which a more complex plot would actually detract from a movie? I think Halloween and Jaws are great examples of that and I would put MMFR in that category as well.

My point is that a film having a "decent plot" isn't necessary for it to be good, great or even among the best of all time because films aren't reliant on plot. If you require them for your own tastes, then you're cutting out a ton of the films that have been produced.

I think the best films are reliant on an at least decent plot. Then again, I haven't seen as many movies as you have, so what do I know. And again, I said it was a good movie, just not a great one.

 

[jbutler]

I think the best films are reliant on an at least decent plot. Then again, I haven't seen as many movies as you have, so what do I know. And again, I said it was a good movie, just not a great one.

I don't mean to tell you that you have to like something - it's absolutely fair to not care for a movie that I love or vice versa. But I'm hung up on what qualifies as a decent plot. Do you just disagree that Jaws and Alien and Halloween have no more of a plot than MMFR? Do you not consider any of those to be great films?

As a more extreme example, there was a documentary from 2012 that was pretty fantastic called Leviathan and it had basically no dialogue, no narrative, nothing beyond film of workers on a fishing boat.

With that at one end of the spectrum - and even excluding genre films for the argument - the other end would have movies like Lost in Translation or My Dinner with Andre. They have no plot whatsoever. They have an idea and scenes turn around the central conceit of the film, but there's nothing resembling a narrative plot.

If you have plot as a necessary component of a great film, a lot of great films are going to be kicked out for not accomplishing something they never set out to do.

 

[moose]

Mad Max. I cared zero for any of the characters in the movie so no emotional attachment at all.

Also all sense of drama ended when they stopped and decided to go back. Total momentum killer. Let's just repeat the movie in reverse.

If a macguffin is a basic plot element that is somewhat derided, they decided to eliminate even that. What was the macguffin, the truck?, the women?, escaping?, the Green place? None of it mattered by the time they turned around making the rest of the movie completely pointless.

Acting? Well if you cover over the face of one of the main characters with a mask for a good portion of the film it makes it kind of pointless. What is it with Tom Hardy and masks? Do they figure he is so terrible it would be better to cover his face?

What's left? Good soundtrack? I dunno WTF.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I don't mean to tell you that you have to like something - it's absolutely fair to not care for a movie that I love or vice versa. But I'm hung up on what qualifies as a decent plot. Do you just disagree that Jaws and Alien and Halloween have no more of a plot than MMFR? Do you not consider any of those to be great films?

As a more extreme example, there was a documentary from 2012 that was pretty fantastic called Leviathan and it had basically no dialogue, no narrative, nothing beyond film of workers on a fishing boat.

With that at one end of the spectrum - and even excluding genre films for the argument - the other end would have movies like Lost in Translation or My Dinner with Andre. They have no plot whatsoever. They have an idea and scenes turn around the central conceit of the film, but there's nothing resembling a narrative plot.

If you have plot as a necessary component of a great film, a lot of great films are going to be kicked out for not accomplishing something they never set out to do.

Never saw Leviathan, or My Dinner with Andre. I saw Lost in Translation so long ago, I remember that I thought it was decent, but thats about it.

Alien, Halloween, and especially Jaws were all great in the fact they scared the ever loving crap out of me, which they were designed to do. Great horror movies all of them, the top of their genre.

 

[jbutler]

What's left?

Explosions, basically. If that's not your bag then fair enough, but to expect a movie to be something that it isn't is a failure of the viewer not of the movie.

Alien, Halloween, and especially Jaws were all great in the fact they scared the ever loving crap out of me, which they were designed to do. Great horror movies all of them, the top of their genre.

Okay, the top of their genre, but when we talk about an overall top ten we're drawing from all genres, so it would be unfair to judge a film from one genre against another's standards.

Just to take one of this year's best, Creed didn't scare the crap out of me the way Halloween did and Halloween didn't have nearly the plot that Creed did, but it would be silly to say that Creed can't be in my top ten because it doesn't scare me. It wasn't intended to, just as Halloween wasn't intended to have a complex or interesting plot.

This all reminds me of something Roger Ebert said when discussing Raging Bull. I'll have to paraphrase, but it was something to the effect of, "People who say they don't like Raging Bull because they don't like boxing movies are really just saying they don't like movies because boxing, to Scorsese, is nothing more than a device used to tell a story about something that has nothing to do with boxing." This is the same thing on a slightly more meta level imo. Plot is nothing but a device used to assist the filmmaker in expressing his vision.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I doubt that any of those movies would be on most critics top ten lists of all time, that's why I said top of their genre. Jaws was nominated for best picture, which is an incredible feat for a horror film. You may rate them top ten of all time, but most people don't. Nothing wrong with that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I mean, some people don't even like Billy Joel. (Not talking about We Didn't Start the Fire, everyone hates that drek).

 

[manamongkids]

I doubt that any of those movies would be on most critics top ten lists of all time, that's why I said top of their genre. Jaws was nominated for best picture, which is an incredible feat for a horror film. You may rate them top ten of all time, but most people don't. Nothing wrong with that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I mean, some people don't even like Billy Joel. (Not talking about We Didn't Start the Fire, everyone hates that drek).

@Chippy McChiperson

 

[jbutler]

I doubt that any of those movies would be on most critics top ten lists of all time, that's why I said top of their genre. Jaws was nominated for best picture, which is an incredible feat for a horror film. You may rate them top ten of all time, but most people don't. Nothing wrong with that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I mean, some people don't even like Billy Joel. (Not talking about We Didn't Start the Fire, everyone hates that drek).

I guess that's why I tend to disregard most critics' top ten lists. They look for movies that replicate what they already like rather than watch movies for what they can try to be. I guess that's all criticism to a degree, but I find it sad.

 

[jbutler]

@Chippy McChiperson

I've enjoyed Billy Joel exactly once: the closing scene in Trainwreck. I'd post the video, but somehow they've kept it off youtube.

 

[manamongkids]

I guess that's why I tend to disregard most critics' top ten lists. They look for movies that replicate what they already like rather than watch movies for what they can try to be. I guess that's all criticism to a degree, but I find it sad.

top 10 all time obv starts like this:
1. Gigli
2. Glitter
need i go on?

 

[moose]

 

[ssanel54]

Film is an medium and Plot is a literary term pertaining to story construction. The two really have nothing to do with each other, unless you are relying on plot to tell a story in your film. Films can be great for many reasons, and sometimes they are great only because of their plot.

I have not seen the new Mad Max, but can think of hundreds of films that I thought were done extraordinarily well, even though the plot sucked.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I have not seen the new Mad Max, but can think of hundreds of films that I thought were done extraordinarily well, even though the plot sucked.

Different strokes for different folks. For me, while it was visually and audibly spectacular, and the choreography and filmography were done well, ultimately it felt like it lacked substance to make me care. It was nothing more than an excuse to shut ones brain off and watch explosions, perhaps like watching the fireworks on the 4th of July.

I found nothing in this film that would make me recommend it or re-watch it, and it paralleled other mediums for me such as video and PC games that are sold purely on their graphics but ultimately lack substance to keep you coming back for more and come across as a shallow experience.

Likewise, there are plenty of movies or games I've enjoyed that have graphics or effects that are by todays standards atrocious, but that I would gleefully return again and again to experience the depth they bring.

 

[ssanel54]

can't say I disagree. Obviously, I didn't see enough in the previews to compel me to go see this movie. I will watch it at some point though for free, and Ill probably enjoy it.

Your fireworks analogy is good. Or I would recommend a film like koyaanisqatsi, that is beautifully filmed and well done (and does have a story), but might not fit the prototype of the mainstream.

 

[BGinGA]

to expect a movie to be something that it isn't is a failure of the viewer not of the movie.

If that's the case, then you've failed miserably many times, according to your past reviews. Can't have it both ways, Jack.

 

[jbutler]

If that's the case, then you've failed miserably many times, according to your past reviews. Can't have it both ways, Jack.

I'm sure I have on occasion but for the most part I try to look at a movie's goals before pronouncing it a failure. It's not "having it both ways" just because I've fallen victim to an error in thinking at some point in the past. But just disliking a movie doesn't automatically mean I wasn't giving it credit for what it was trying to do. Those above criticizing Fury Road act as if anyone involved was under any delusion that there was some compelling plot when it was purposefully underplotted to focus on other aspects of the film.

 

[jbutler]

I mean, some people don't even like Billy Joel. (Not talking about We Didn't Start the Fire, everyone hates that drek).

Spoiler

 

[jbutler]

I didn't pay too close attention to the oscars last night, but they were on the TVs right behind the table as we were playing at Borgata, so it was kind of unavoidable. So dumb that Mark Rylance got best supporting over both Stallone and Tom Hardy and Mark Ruffalo. And nothing for Carol which is beyond horrible. Brie Larson was good in room, but nowhere near Cate Blanchett in Carol.

Maybe now people will stfu about Leo and the oscars. He deserved to win, though, so that's fine. It's just hard to take them seriously when they're so off the mark so often.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I thought Chris Rock was awful. A lot of people are saying how ballsy he was, and that he killed it, but I thought it was just too much, and not funny. I guess he was in a damned if you do or damned if you don't situation on whether or not he addressed the "whites only" Oscars, but to me it fell flat. I did think the Angela Bassett bit was pretty funny, as was Tracy Morgan as the Dutch Girl. I was glad to see Ennio Morricone win for best score, but bummed Stallone didn't win.

 

[jbutler]

I thought Chris Rock was awful. A lot of people are saying how ballsy he was, and that he killed it, but I thought it was just too much, and not funny. I guess he was in a damned if you do or damned if you don't situation on whether or not he addressed the "whites only" Oscars, but to me it fell flat. I did think the Angela Bassett bit was pretty funny, as was Tracy Morgan as the Dutch Girl. I was glad to see Ennio Morricone win for best score, but bummed Stallone didn't win.

Yeah it was all subtitled with music playing so I didn't hear any of the actual jokes or performances or anything, which is actually fine by me.