1/3 NLHE, AKo UTG against agitated Villain who doubled me up on previous hand (1 Viewer)

bentax1978

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Just got back from a successful weekend in Vegas. My brother was out on the west coast for business and asked if I wanted to come out to Vegas for the weekend to hang out and gambol. He offered to buy my tickets with airline miles, so it was a pretty easy snap call to go.

Saturday morning session at Encore (Wynn) started around 9am. Most of the table had been there most of the night, including the main Villain of this story. The stakes were 1/3 (max $500 buy), but Villain had around $4000 in front of him. Played for about two hours before the hands below occurred. Villain was a decent player, aggressive but not reckless. He was a little condescending at times, and when a short stack would double up through him, he'd shrug it off and say "I'm just paying you back with your chips". And while this was usually accurate, the way he said it make him come off like an asshole as opposed to someone just joking around. I only got into a few hands with him in the first couple hours, and I think I won most of them. He whined a little that I always caught what I needed on the turn or river. A few times that was true, but I was also playing somewhat tight and used that image to make a couple well timed bluff when I didn't actually catch what I needed.

So two hours into the session, the below two hands occur that I am interested in getting feedback on. Actually, the first one of the two I will just describe as background since it's potentially relevant to the second one.

First hand.

Starting stacks. Button ($200) | SB ($3500) | BB ($400) | UTG ($550) | Hero, UTG+1 ($675)

So about two hours into the session, 8/9 handed and I'm UTG+1 and get dealt QQ. I have about $675 to start the hand. UTG (my brother) limps for $3. I raise to $15. Folds around to the Button who calls $15, SB (Villain) who calls $15, BB calls $15, UTG calls $15.

Flop is :8d: :8c: :9c: $70 in pot.

SB, BB and UTG+1 all check. Normally Hero would consider putting out a pot sized bet with his overpair and a board like that to protect against the straights and flushes. But Hero looks around at the players who already checked and they all seem to be very interested in the hand. In previous hands if they checked, you could tell when they mentally checked the "check-fold" button in their head. This was not one of those times. Hero got a bad feeling and decides to check despite having an overpair and a board with straight and flush draws. Button checks as well.

Turns is a :6s: Board is now :8d: :8c: :9c: :6s: Still $70 in pot.

Everyone checks.

River is a :qc: Board is now :8d: :8c: :9c: :6s: :qc: Still $70 in pot.

SB throws out a $25 bet. BB immediately calls $25. UTG folds.

Hero, who just made Queens full on the river, raises to $100 total. SB mutters something along the lines of "there it is" (implying that Hero has once against rivered him).

Button then moves all in for $185 total.

SB, despite just a few seconds ago muttering the "there it is" comment, then goes all-in and had everyone at the table well covered.

BB thinks for about 10 seconds and then mucks his AQ face up on the table not realizing that Hero still had to act behind him. He apologizes, and the action is now on Hero.

Hero hesitates for a second, says he's only worried about one hand, and then calls.

Button turns over Ac7c for and ace-high flush.
SB turns over 89 for the flopped full-house.
BB had already exposed AQo (but folded)
Hero turns over QQ and scoops the $1600+ pot with the case queen on the river.

SB is beside himself, muttering things to himself about how the fuck did I catch a queen. He's justifying his slow play of the full house (which wasn't a horrible move to try and let someone catch up, it just didn't work out). So while his stack is still quite healthy, he's clearly agitated that his slow-play backfired to a one-outer.

Second hand.

On the very next hand, Hero (who is now UTG), gets dealt :as: :kd:. Hero raises to $16 and gets 4 calls, including the agitated Villain who is now on the button. SB and BB fold.

Flop is :kh: :8c: :3s: rainbow, $80 in the pot.

Hero, acting first, bets out $100. Everyone folds to Villain who stares at Hero for a good 20 seconds before making the call, never breaking eye contact with hero even as he grabs his single black chip to call.

Turn is a :6h: and makes the board :kh: :8c: :3s: :6h: $280 in the pot, Hero still has $1500 left and Villain has $2700 left.

What should Hero do?
 
Check raise. He has a worse king or a pair between the 8s and Ks (most likely 9s or Ts). I've seen that stare call before.

Assuming that's what you put him on, how confident would you be that he's bet a king or middle pocket pair if I check (as opposed to checking behind and seeing a free river)?
 
Not sure if he's betting a middle pair, but I'd be pretty confident that he's betting a king in that spot. I mean, does he really want to see an ace on the river with any of those hands (unless he was floating with an ace)?
 
Not sure if he's betting a middle pair, but I'd be pretty confident that he's betting a king in that spot. I mean, does he really want to see an ace on the river with any of those hands (unless he was floating with an ace)?

And I suppose if he has middle pair, he'd likely fold it to a bet on the turn anyway.
 
Check raise. He has a worse king or a pair between the 8s and Ks (most likely 9s or Ts). I've seen that stare call before.

I tend to agree re: the stare down meaning he's very unlikely to be slow playing a big hand, but if we put him on a weaker king or middle pair, a check raise doesn't make a lot of sense imo since he's not likely to pay off a big bet with those hands.

I'd lead out on the turn for $150ish.

Taking a check/call pot control line on the turn against a guy who seems to have personally targeted us might not be a bad idea either.
 
I tend to agree re: the stare down meaning he's very unlikely to be slow playing a big hand, but if we put him on a weaker king or middle pair, a check raise doesn't make a lot of sense imo since he's not likely to pay off a big bet with those hands.

I'd lead out on the turn for $150ish.

You don't think he might be on spew-monkey tilt from the last hand?
 
You don't think he might be on spew-monkey tilt from the last hand?

I mean it's possible, but unless we've seen him unjustifiably spew otherwise, I don't really see why we'd weight the possibility so heavily as to take an action that really on works if he is indeed on spew monkey tilt and is a much more reckless player than bentax indicated.
 
I like the check call down line also. It allows the Villain to think he is in control and avoids getting raised off of what is likely the best hand.
 
I mean it's possible, but unless we've seen him unjustifiably spew otherwise, I don't really see why we'd weight the possibility so heavily as to take an action that really on works if he is indeed on spew monkey tilt and is a much more reckless player than bentax indicated.

Nothing during the previous two hours suggested he was reckless. I only played with him for two hours, and his stack was built before I got there. But from what I gathered, he was patient and looked for opportunities to try and double up through smaller stacks to build his stack. That said, he was pissed about the previous hand, but I don't think upset enough to risk doubling up what was now a substantial stack just for spite.
 
I'm with Chippy and absolutely check raise here. In my opinion, I'd put him on a weaker king. That staredown bullshit is just his way of assessing whether or not your move was simply a c-bet with a middle pocket pair or a bet with top-top. If you check, he thinks his king is good and fires away.

Either that or he set-mined and caught his 3 and the theatrics are a move of confidence because he knows he's going to eat your lunch for you. ;)
 
I was going to advocate for a check for pot control—especially given how dry the board is—but that seems to commit us to paying him off to the river when he has a set, while losing value against his payoff hands.

I think I'd like a bet here, but in the interest of pot control, about half-pot. I think $150 would be a good size. He should pay off with his weaker kings and maybe even some pairs between 88 and KK, and we won't be creating an unduly huge pot.

We're either way ahead or way behind. If Villain has a big hand here, we want to force him to make a move to reveal his strength without committing half of our stack on a crazy check-raise. If he has a weaker king, why check-raise? He'll just fold, when we could've gotten more from him on a bet-bet or bet-check/call line, but he'll take half our stack or more when he has us beat. We'd be risking a lot to only win a little.

Assuming Villain calls, assess his body language and the river card to decide whether to value-bet or check.
 
I was going to advocate for a check for pot control—especially given how dry the board is—but that seems to commit us to paying him off to the river when he has a set, while losing value against his payoff hands.

I think I'd like a bet here, but in the interest of pot control, about half-pot. I think $150 would be a good size. He should pay off with his weaker kings and maybe even some pairs between 88 and KK, and we won't be creating an unduly huge pot.

We're either way ahead or way behind. If Villain has a big hand here, we want to force him to make a move to reveal his strength without committing half of our stack on a crazy check-raise. If he has a weaker king, why check-raise? He'll just fold, when we could've gotten more from him on a bet-bet or bet-check/call line, but he'll take half our stack or more when he has us beat. We'd be risking a lot to only win a little.

Assuming Villain calls, assess his body language and the river card to decide whether to value-bet or check.

This is almost exactly how I view the hand/situation.

I ended up betting $200 with two black chips.

Villain starts the stare down again. Never looked back at his cards since the first time he looked preflop (nor did I). He just locked eyes and I stared back the whole time. It was literally a staring contest with a poker hand going on at the same time. He continues this for a good 30-45 seconds before he breaks off the stare and spends about 5 seconds looking at this stack and then proceeds to call the $200.

River is a :jh:, making the board :kh: :8c: :3s: :6h: :jh: with $580 in the pot. Hero still has $1300 left and Villain has $2500 left.

Now what?
 
I'm not too worried about the backdoor flush, but that J isn't pretty, since his top two holdings that we beat are KQ and KJ—with maybe a bit of KT or K9 if he was feeling frisky preflop. I think that smaller pairs are pretty unlikely at this point.

I'm going to go with a bet of $300, just to go against Jack's recommendation a little. Gonna be a puke-fold if he raises, but we should get crying calls from him with weaker kings often enough to make it worth the bet.

Really would rather if the 3 or the 6 had paired.
 
Our hand is pretty much face-up here as AK/AA almost always, maybe KQ at worst or a very occasional bluff with air. Overbet bombing the flop with KK wouldn't make much sense. I'm not sure if another bet is getting called by worse ever, and villain could easily put us in a world of pain with a shove if we bet.

I'm going to check-evaluate (most likely call if he bets, although depending on bet size and instant read I might find a fold once in a while...)
 
Really would rather if the 3 or the 6 had paired.

That was my first thought.

Agreed no worries about the heart at all. With the king of hearts on the flop it's very difficult for him to have backed into hearts unless he was really trying to hero call you down with 8Xhh.
 
I'm not too worried about the backdoor flush, but that J isn't pretty, since his top two holdings that we beat are KQ and KJ—with maybe a bit of KT or K9 if he was feeling frisky preflop. I think that smaller pairs are pretty unlikely at this point.

I'm going to go with a bet of $300, just to go against Jack's recommendation a little. Gonna be a puke-fold if he raises, but we should get crying calls from him with weaker kings often enough to make it worth the bet.

Really would rather if the 3 or the 6 had paired.


I also didn't care for the J because I thought KQ and KJ were the most likely holdings. Both would preclude a flush since the K on the board was a heart. Something like 87 hearts was possible, calling light on the flop with middle pair, turning a flush draw.
 
That was my first thought.

Agreed no worries about the heart at all. With the king of hearts on the flop it's very difficult for him to have backed into hearts unless he was really trying to hero call you down with 8Xhh.

Pretty much in line with my reply to Jim above.
 
I also didn't care for the J because I thought KQ and KJ were the most likely holdings. Both would preclude a flush since the K on the board was a heart. Something like 87 hearts was possible, calling light on the flop with middle pair, turning a flush draw.
Don't think he would spend so much time calling turn if he had a pair+fd, probably worse king or slowplaying on turn.
 
Don't think he would spend so much time calling turn if he had a pair+fd, probably worse king or slowplaying on turn.

True. I was certainly less worried about him hitting a backdoor flush as opposed to him possibly rivering two pair.
 
True. I was certainly less worried about him hitting a backdoor flush as opposed to him possibly rivering two pair.

Definitely the primary concern. I agree with Jim that it's a bet-puke-fold to a river raise.
 
I bet 400-500, i think betting smaller opens us up to a check raise from more capable players sensing false weakness, i pretty much never get raised without the nuts and it looks like more of a bluff which gets me more calls.
 
Hero went ahead and made it $300 and the staring contest started again.

This time it was only for about 10 seconds before Villain starts counting out enough black chips to put me all-in. He looks down at the 13 chips and pushes them forward, putting me all-in.

Now what?

Could he have done that with the worst hand because (as @Ben said) I pretty much turned my hand face up and told everyone I had AA/AK and he thinks I'll fold one pair to a $1000 raise? Or maybe he thinks the flush is a scare card that I won't be able to call with despite that line not making a lot of sense? Or did he have a set this whole time and I was drawing nearly dead the whole time?
 

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