QQ in the bb (10 Viewers)

[stocky]

this hands been bugging me since my trip away. 9 handed $2/5 at the casino.

Relevant villains.

UTG. I'd consider the best player here, I'd consider him a skilled LAG. $1200+

Btn. Newer player. Everyone knows him so I'd say he's a reg but only played an orbit so no reads. Bought in short for $200, has $150+ left.

BB. Hero. Playing pretty TAG, $850 on a $300 buy in. This is way above my usual stakes as its the only game they spread but I'm not uncomfortable.

Rest of the table is loose passive type players. If the raise they probably have it, or at least think top pair is the nuts.

Table limps. (Yes everyone)

Action on hero with QsQc. Pot $45, Raise? Check?

If we raise, how much? Also consider that any raise will likely see 3+ callers. Most of these guys can't fold pre when invested. But a over bet will likely see everyone fold.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Nice, large raise, but not too ridiculous.

What amount exactly would depend on what the normal raise size has been at this table. Adjust it up for the fact that there are so many limpers, and adjust it up a bit more to try to thin out the 3 callers we'd expect for a normal raise.

Taking down the $45 currently in the pot really wouldn't be such a bad result.

 

[DrStrange]

Make it $75 to go.

I can respect a trapping limp too - but that is 100% set mining if Hero takes that line.

 

[stocky]

Nice, large raise, but not too ridiculous.

What amount exactly would depend on what the normal raise size has been at this table. Adjust it up for the fact that there are so many limpers, and adjust it up a bit more to try to thin out the 3 callers we'd expect for a normal raise.

Taking down the $45 currently in the pot really wouldn't be such a bad result.

Standard preflop raises have been between $20-$40. Heroes standard has been $20 in ep and higher in lp with limpers.

 

[DJ Mack]

I'd raise but nothing outlandish. But then again that's my usual strategy when I'm on BB and feel up for another card. $75 might be a bit much but a little more than usual for the table might be in order. Trouble is, I've lost on a high pocket pair more than I care to count. With 9 hands going folks tend to overestimate the strength of a high pair, especially early with nothing on the board.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Standard preflop raises have been between $20-$40. Heroes standard has been $20 in ep and higher in lp with limpers.

Let's go $60 or $70 straight, then

 

[DrStrange]

My thinking is we have eight villains, each willing to pitch $5 into the pot. That will be a lot of suited aces, medium/small pairs, Broadway cards, connectors suited and unsuited. Hero isn't going to know what hits the villain's range - it could be anything. The post flop play is going to be difficult if all Hero has is a pair.

Hero's best defense is to get the SPR as low as possible. Low SPRs insure the RIO risk is modest. Low SPRs make the post flop play more straightforward.

Hero is going to be in a pickle postflop if he raises $20 and gets six callers.

 

[stocky]

Hero is going to be in a pickle postflop if he raises $20 and gets six callers.

Totally agree,

So it seems clear to raise fairly big.

Hero raises $60 on top. Maybe to small?

We get two callers, utg and btn.

Pot is $225

Flop. 2c5h9d

Hero?

 

[DrStrange]

First off, I see Hero as pot committed. Pot is $225. Hero $785 left. That gives us an SPR of 3.5 holding an over pair on a safe flop. (note that a preflop raise $10 larger would have cut the SPR below three and significantly shorted the set mining odds.)

Bet $200 planning on a $585 turn shove. Hero call/jams on any flop raise. I can't find a fold vs a skilled lag. Button isn't relevant to Hero's decision making, though he might end up with the best hand at showdown.

 

[mummel]

Standard preflop raises have been between $20-$40. Heroes standard has been $20 in ep and higher in lp with limpers.

Bet $40.

 

[Jimulacrum]

That's about as good a flop as QQ could ask for. No indication that AA or KK is out there, and the board is ragged enough that all we really need to worry about are sets. Trouble is, SPR is about 3:1, so it would be really hard to get away from this hand if we're beat.

We pretty much have to bet, say $175 or $200. If we only get a call, we've shoving any turn, even puke-shoving an A, K, or 9. The only thing that warrants more thought is the possibility of getting shoved by UTG on the flop.

BTN's remaining $90 is almost inconsequential. Though UTG has us covered, he has to have specifically 22, 55, or 99 to have us beat. He almost certainly doesn't have AA or KK, and there are 2 overpairs he can have that might give us action. Combo-wise, he can have the sets 9 ways and the overpairs 12 ways, so that's already in our favor, though I'm a little hesitant to include TT and JJ because he didn't open with a raise. We may also want to consider that he could have a number of connectors that include a 9, or convince himself we whiffed with AK and get sticky with an underpair. In any case, I don't think we can give him so much credit that we'd fold getting about 2:1.

 

[mummel]

Totally agree,

So it seems clear to raise fairly big.

Hero raises $60 on top. Maybe to small?

We get two callers, utg and btn.

Pot is $225

Flop. 2c5h9d

Hero?

Bet $200

 

[MatB]

i couldn't read all of it. just got in. 4 beers deep sorry.

Raise $50 pre flop. ok looks like you did.ish.

259 flop. bet $90 should have at least 1 fold. if you get a call. they have A9 and will call anything thinking they have the nuts.

 

[courage]

Agree with the $60 raise pf and betting $175-200 on flop.

 

[eXtremum]

Good preflop raise - $200 on flop...move in on turn, if there's no A or K? Another Q would be valuetown.

 

[stocky]

Hero miscalculated the pot. I had planned to bet 2/3 but instead bet just over half.

Hero bets $120

Utg calls. Btn folds.

Turn Ac

Hero?

 

[Rhodeman77]

I thought $125 on the flop to keep the weaker holdings in the hand still i.e. Any top pair hand.

I think you need to continue to bet even with the A on the turn. $250 and puke call a shove.

UTG has called 2 bets, but hasn't show any aggression so it feels most likely to be s week 1 pair hand that hopes you had AK and missed the flop.

If he calls the turn I probably check the river and hope for a cheap showdown unless a Q comes off of course.

 

[eXtremum]

This is a really bad spot, but yeah, must continue telling the story,,.

"...once upon a time, I had AK, or a set of Aces..."



UTG?:

 

[Rhodeman77]

I have a hard time putting UTG on a strong preflop hand. He only limped in and then had a chance to isolate the BB and be heads up with position and didn't do that either. So I figure him for a top pair hand with 10, 9 or 8, 9 suited or a medium PP.


Worst case is he flopped a set and is letting Hero bet for him on the dry board.

Reading OP again hero feels UTG is a skilled LAG, I don't see a skilled LAG limping a big Ax hand then not 3 betting it with the full table behind that limped too. I really think his range is polarized to small PP and some kind of connected cards that flopped a pair. The question is did he flop a set or a pair???

 

[MatB]

i still think villain has A9

After the turn I would be pooping my pants now, wondering why i built the pot up so much.

I would now check/ fold. Ace is the cooler. Run forest Run.

 

[mipevi]

Pre is fine, although checking for set value is fun too. Planned 2/3 cbet on the flop sounds about right. Turn is rough, because it completed the only real draw on the board and SPR is weird. Of course there's a lot more than just sets, Ax and 34 in villain's range, so I'm not giving up just yet. I don't see any reason to overrep our hand though, so I check turn.

 

[AWenger]

Check. That makes it looks like you're scared of the ace. Give him a chance to bluff weaker hands like 66, 77, 88, TT, JJ.

 

[mummel]

You cant check cause then he knows you dont have the A. You cant really continuation bet $120 either because anyone who built the pot that big would get excited about their A dropping and would bet big. I'm guessing you would either have to bet $240, shove, or check-fold.

Darn its a tough call. If he calls your bet or reraises, you know he has A9 and then I would run. Bet $240. If he folds, he probably had K9, J9 and maybe Q9.

BTW - I wonder if betting $200+ before the turn would have made it too expensive for him to chase his high card?

 

[BGinGA]

Shove, bink queen on river. Easy game.

 

[ushallnotraise]

Pre-flop raise is fine oop against so many opponents.

Flop bet is too small in this sort of game. $175-190 is a much better move. Then again you said you put in the wrong bet size so you know that.

On the turn we have to ask ourselves; What hand did utg limp with that could reasonably call the flop, that now have us beat? A9/A5 are really the only two possibilities. More likely, villain has 66-88. While you may be beat, I still don't really think this is a board that you can check at, given villain's line. If he's a good player like you say, he will almost certainly take the lead if checked to him, especially since our hand screams of TT-KK.

I like the idea of a feeler bet here. The pot is currently ~475. I'd bet around $175. Your smallish bet on the flop doesn't make villain necessarily believe you are making this sort of bet here.

If raised I'd fold.

 

[JoseRijo]

If you bet, will better hands fold or worse hands call? Probably not, so why bet?

What would you do with AA or AK here? You probably wouldn't bomb it.

 

[ushallnotraise]

If you bet, will better hands fold or worse hands call? Probably not, so why bet?

What would you do with AA or AK here? You probably wouldn't bomb it.

Because if villain is lag like op suggests he is almost certainly betting at this turn if checked to. Are we calling a $300 bet from villain here? Better to take the lead with a smaller bet.

Worse hands may not call but they certainly may bet if checked to.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero has made this hand a lot harder by his two bet sizing decisions.

 

[AWenger]

Worse hands may not call but they certainly may bet if checked to.

To me, this is a reason to check the turn and the point I was trying to make. Look to check/call, or if turn goes check/check, same on the river.

 

[JoseRijo]

Hero has made this hand a lot harder by his two bet sizing decisions.

Both were a little smaller than they could have been, but I don't think either is a disaster. It looks like only UTG is deep. Hero just ran into a lousy turn card.