Tchotchke chip set for sanitization business (1 Viewer)

[jeffb1517]

Hi new to the sub. I'm not a collector though every time I hang around this forum I want to buy more casino chips. The discussion here is very contagious. Bought a decent set of ceramics for myself about 5 years ago, that I'm perfectly content with. Bought a set of ABS chips for the girlfriend when there was an adhoc need for chips (usually 2 hrs or less about 15x a year or less), again content for the use case. Had a friend ask me some questions about poker chips and I gave a sub par answer, so I spent the last few days beefing up. But two days reading you all and I'm thinking a Apache China Clay for no good reason other than you all put the thought in my head, or maybe a CPC next year when I can. But that's the typical question. While I was beefing up starting thinking about tchotchke building a decent set of branded poker chips for the business.

I would assume I could do say 20-30 sets 500 chips (maybe 300?) with case for about $60 or less if I go ABS since I see lots of ABS delivered at that price point. Would assume if I go Tina I'm up around $150 inclusive? Am I about right on price at quantity 10k chips and 20 cases or so? I do have warehouse delivery so pallet delivery is fine but the truck will need a liftgate.

After cost the question becomes what kind of chip should I get. Target customer for this promotion is something like a GM, RM of a resteraunt chain, GM grocery store, garage manager... I was thinking ABS since no reason to believe customers can tell the difference. OTOH I'd assume the manager / employee who takes it might have a home game and someone can tell the difference. Should I consider Chinese Clay, Tina or Ceramic? I'm assuming some of you have done this. What worked what didn't? Is this a bad idea i.e. too expensive and specialitized or good idea tons of advertising. Any advice?

 

[Gus]

Probably reach out to Justin Carothers directly here for TINA pricing and options. Probably the most bang for your buck

Consider spending some money on hiring a designer here, @Okku or others, to make your chips look great (and reflect well on your business!). Amazing what a well done design can do

 

[jeffb1517]

Probably reach out to Justin Carothers directly here for TINA pricing and options. Probably the most bang for your buck

Consider spending some money on hiring a designer here, @Okku or others, to make your chips look great (and reflect well on your business!). Amazing what a well done design can do

Definitely agree on the designer. I can show samples of our color scheme on products, but nothing like the range for a poker set. I've seen references to
@Okku @tallsbutler @mattross1313, @Bloo_Design, @timinater in threads as far as design, but no idea who does what kind of work. Noting timinater has wroked with Jim, but I assume most of the regulars have. Thinking I have to hard decide on ceramic style (full chip) or more of the label clay hybrid style before working on the design. Though it might be that I'm better off bringing in a designer and picking the chip type based on design conversation. Any designer who wants to discuss how to engage and when feel free to jump in, please.

As for reaching out to Justin, don't want to waste his time if I'm going ABS. You mentioned "most bang for your buck" do you think I'm overestimating the spread of going with the Tina?

 

[Tonysquander]

Tina is just what people around here call a Chinese manufacturer for short. They sell all of the types of chips you are considering, plus cases and other accessories. If you are looking for a package deal and to negotiate the best price, you probably should enter into direct negotiations with one of their salespersons. Maybe lock down your design first.

 

[Gus]

Definitely agree on the designer. I can show samples of our color scheme on products, but nothing like the range for a poker set. I've seen references to
@Okku @tallsbutler @mattross1313, @Bloo_Design, @timinater in threads as far as design, but no idea who does what kind of work. Noting timinater has wroked with Jim, but I assume most of the regulars have. Thinking I have to hard decide on ceramic style (full chip) or more of the label clay hybrid style before working on the design. Though it might be that I'm better off bringing in a designer and picking the chip type based on design conversation. Any designer who wants to discuss how to engage and when feel free to jump in, please.

As for reaching out to Justin, don't want to waste his time if I'm going ABS. You mentioned "most bang for your buck" do you think I'm overestimating the spread of going with the Tina?

Getting a quote from Justin isn't a waste of time, just another data point in your evaluation of options. Going thru him vs going direct = you can choose from the colors and sets he has pre-arranged, get the latest info re: tariffs, timing, and generally have someone on your side thru the process. Going direct might save 20-40%, I don't know the margins. Perhaps some of the designers here have experience ordering direct from TINA.

Having handled china clays, full ceramics (a la BR Pro), plenty of ABS and the best Paulsons, I'm coming to think more and more that TINA chips are the best "value" for budget projects. BR Pro are great, but will cost a bit more (perhaps well worth it!). Custom CPC's are amazing, but aren't even for sale currently. I think I'm just biased against ABS chips as having unreliable quality and generally being the cheapest chip... so anything different (such as TINAs) will stand out.

If you haven't gotten hands on with samples of all these different types of chips I'd be happy to send you samples if you pay shipping there and back. Otherwise you can get samples from the various sources for fairly cheap.

 

[jeffb1517]

They sell all of the types of chips you are considering, plus cases and other accessories.

Wow interesting. I think I found them online. Not hitting their minimums in most areas, but over them in others. I certainly wouldn't mind a reasonable wrap fee to have someone experienced manage this. So I guess I'll ping Jim. You are right they sell ABS and other chips. Do you know if Jim allows these lower end options in his order? So if Tina is the preferred vendor of choice.... I think it is funny they are now carrying products on their side they are calling "Tina ...." (Hybrid Chips with some of the molds) which I'm assuming they picked up through this exchange.

Bummed they only seem to carry plastic cards. I would love to customize those, but honestly, the only Chinese company I trust to do cards right would be Expert/Legends, and I think they require a minimum of 1,000 decks per design. FWIW USPCC whom I really like is min order 2500, and even then for small volume no extras $3.50 / deck. 1000 is not impossible if I use the deck as a lower price general accessory but high for my needs. I'd really just want 2 per set so more like 50 plus maybe another 20 as additional accessories.

____

Now onto the big unanswered question.... It is looking like the ABS base is $.07 / chip. The Hybrid base is $.30 / chip. Not sure if any other costs go up. Assuming 25 sets of 500 that's an extra $2875 i.e. $115 / set. I suspect with Jim's margin more like $140 / set. Not sure but it is seeming like the Hybrid triples the cost. Do you think I have that right? It is odd because domestically, the spread between Custom ABS and Custom Ceramic is about 50% (25% for hybrid). Which is an analysis that leads to exactly the opposite conclusion, there is no reason not to go full ceramic of possibly hybrid depending on feel (I don't have an opinion yet). But in this case with this price structure,... any good reason to do it? I know people love the Tina Hybrids but has anyone bought ABS from Tina? Are they junk or are they comparable to most ABS? Is there another place for them? For me I'd get the Hybrid but you get where I'm coming from as far as a promotional item.

Anyway I've talked your ear off enough.

 

[Tonysquander]

Don’t know what “Jim” you are referencing but if talking about Justin he gets a lot, if not all, of the BA products (chips/cards/racks etc.) from that company as far as I can tell.

Yes they have been educated by PCF members over many years and orders and now use PCF nomenclature for some of their products which is hilarious.

I don’t pay attention to the Chinese ceramic buys b/c it is not my thing so you are better off talking to those who get involved with the ordering about pricing and options. @Cratty has come up with some unique ideas/designs in addition to the others you listed above.

 

[Tonysquander]

Don’t be scared to send the company messages directly as well. They are pretty used to hearing from PCF folks by now and are usually helpful and responsive.

 

[chippitydoodah]

You should buy the nastiest used chips you can get since its for a sanitization business. Then sell them your product to get the hooker juice off

 

[jeffb1517]

Not sure if this works (new to the forum), but @justincarothers, if this flags you and you are willing to join, please do. Otherwise, I'll DM, but I figure I can't be the first or last person asking about multiple cheap sets.

@chippitydoodah, this may be regional, but AFAIK, hooker juice is just pickle juice and tequila. Water and vinegar, followed by baking soda, to neutralize. That one is easy. We make our living getting bacteria that like human feces out of grout, bacteria that like fats out of food drains, getting glass with micropock marks to look new... .

 

[Tonysquander]

@Machine looks like you need to add hooker juice to the glossary

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/glossary/forum.3/

 

[Tommy]

Thread title makes me think of this.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Not sure if this works (new to the forum), but @justincarothers, if this flags you and you are willing to join, please do. Otherwise, I'll DM, but I figure I can't be the first or last person asking about multiple cheap sets.

@chippitydoodah, this may be regional, but AFAIK, hooker juice is just pickle juice and tequila. Water and vinegar, followed by baking soda, to neutralize. That one is easy. We make our living getting bacteria that like human feces out of grout, bacteria that like fats out of food drains, getting glass with micropock marks to look new... .

Is it safe on clay? Asking for a friend.

 

[jeffb1517]

Is it safe on clay? Asking for a friend.

Well above they are saying the word was regional. But assuming you and I mean the same thing. I'd definitely try it on one. We don't know what's in these chips, but let's pretend for a moment they were real clay and lead. Since we are talking chips that are actually all sorts of materials with very little actual clay designed to act like clay, you want to experiment. Vinegar, or any weak acid can increase the plasticity of clays. Which for a chip I suspect is likely to be anti-damage, i.e. micro-cracks in the chip are likely to seal up. It wouldn't shock me if washing off hooker juice increases the lifespan. You use the same kind of approach for pottery cleaning and it extends the life of the pottery. Lead won't react to household vinegar without an oxidizer. So don't do the below if you just put on Peroxyl on a cut, or wear a globe. FWIW, if you do mix lead, vinegar, and hydrogen peroxide, you'll get a highly toxic residue.

Baking soda is doing the opposite; it is going to increase the brittleness of the clay. You want the reaction with the vinegar but not the baking soda. So:

1. Vinegar and water treatment
2. Wash it off. Not urgent
3. Baking soda and water to neutralize the vinegar.
4. Wash it off fast. This one is urgent

Now again who knows when it comes to the various chemicals in chips. But since they are more or less designed to act like clay, how they got stained by tequila and pickle in the first place, I'm thinking this is likely true.

There you go a serious answer to your joke.

 

[Tonysquander]

Well above they are saying the word was regional. But assuming you and I mean the same thing. I'd definitely try it on one. We don't know what's in these chips, but let's pretend for a moment they were real clay and lead. Since we are talking chips that are actually all sorts of materials with very little actual clay designed to act like clay, you want to experiment. Vinegar, or any weak acid can increase the plasticity of clays. Which for a chip I suspect is likely to be anti-damage, i.e. micro-cracks in the chip are likely to seal up. It wouldn't shock me if washing off hooker juice increases the lifespan. You use the same kind of approach for pottery cleaning and it extends the life of the pottery. Lead won't react to household vinegar without an oxidizer. So don't do the below if you just put on Peroxyl on a cut, or wear a globe. FWIW, if you do mix lead, vinegar, and hydrogen peroxide, you'll get a highly toxic residue.

Baking soda is doing the opposite; it is going to increase the brittleness of the clay. You want the reaction with the vinegar but not the baking soda. So:

1. Vinegar and water treatment
2. Wash it off. Not urgent
3. Baking soda and water to neutralize the vinegar.
4. Wash it off fast. This one is urgent

Now again who knows when it comes to the various chemicals in chips. But since they are more or less designed to act like clay, how they got stained by tequila and pickle in the first place, I'm thinking this is likely true.

There you go a serious answer to your joke.

What about effects of TSP and fake TSP?

 

[jeffb1517]

What about effects of TSP and fake TSP?

Terrible idea on clay. TSP reduces the structural integrity, making your chip more soup-like. You are doing this while you are brushing or cleaning, i.e., reducing structural integrity and increasing structural stress. On a ceramic maybe. On clay never. Let's put it this way. I might use it on something like a clay sidewalk with deep stains, where destroying some of the surface integrity and going deeper is a good thing. On a poker chip, though, it is hard to imagine you want to be nearly that aggressive.

 

[Tonysquander]

Terrible idea on clay. TSP reduces the structural integrity, making your chip more soup-like. You are doing this while you are brushing or cleaning, i.e., reducing structural integrity and increasing structural stress. On a ceramic maybe. On clay never. Let's put it this way. I might use it on something like a clay sidewalk with deep stains, where destroying some of the surface integrity and going deeper is a good thing. On a poker chip, though, it is hard to imagine you want to be nearly that aggressive.

Interesting. That’s what happens with CPC chips in TSP and fake TSP, but Paulson doesn’t seem to be impacted by it. Check out this thread. By the way, “hooker juice” is what we call the accumulated finger oil, grime, dirt and general crap that accumulates on casino used poker chips over lengthy periods of use.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/ultrasonic-chip-cleaning.1691/

 

[jeffb1517]

Interesting. That’s what happens with CPC chips in TSP and fake TSP, but Paulson doesn’t seem to be impacted by it. Check out this thread. https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/ultrasonic-chip-cleaning.1691/

That thread is interesting.

By the way, “hooker juice” is what we call the accumulated finger oil, grime, dirt and general crap that accumulates on casino used poker chips over lengthy periods of use.

Ah I see. So not a joke . Thank you for letting me know what that means. Pity the term was already taken before you all adopted it. In that case, a totally different answer. You have a lot of organic fats you can break down without harming the clay. I'd use an enzymatic cleaner. and see if I can get most of the dirt to just brush off after I destroy the "hooker juice's" structural integrity while leaving the clay completely unharmed. Pickle juice is trickier than that. Only thing I'd be worried about is if the dye has any unusual organic components. Most dyes use organic molocules for their coloration which is fine, those aren't fats. But if there were a fat in there. So again I'd want to test one chip first.