My thoughts on Tina’s and forum perspective (2 Viewers)

[RadicusScout]

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

i still hold that they are being less creative though. because they are actively choosing to limit themselves to traditional clay patterns.

which i don't think is morally bad unless youre stealing designs. in fact theres literally nothing wrong with being less creative. plenty of CPC and even NAGB/real casino chips are not creative imo. doesnt even make them bad designs. plenty of simple, not creative chips that are still aesthetically pleasing

i'm just wishing that people who design tinas would be more creative

also you can absolutely have something that mimics the "classic chip" look; yet do something that is not possible in traditional clay... like dunes of arrakis set which i quite like

I don't understand why it would matter to anyone else how a buyer designs their own personal chips? As a general rule, I don't care for ceramic chips with full face artwork. Can't really explain it. They just don't look right to me, because what I do like are clay chips with interesting edge spots and bright colored clay. I really don't even like oversized inlays, although I did buy the Harrah's NOLA chips because I liked the specific artwork on them.

So when I design my next set of Tina's, which I probably will one day, they're going to look like clay chips with edge spots and an inlay. Because that's what I like. I just don't see how that makes me "less creative."

 

[quintooo]

I don't understand why it would matter to anyone else how a buyer designs their own personal chips? As a general rule, I don't care for ceramic chips with full face artwork. Can't really explain it. They just don't look right to me, because what I do like are clay chips with interesting edge spots and bright colored clay. I really don't even like oversized inlays, although I did buy the Harrah's NOLA chips because I liked the specific artwork on them.

So when I design my next set of Tina's, which I probably will one day, they're going to look like clay chips with edge spots and an inlay. Because that's what I like. I just don't see how that makes me "less creative."

yea and I mean there's nothing wrong with being less creative

you can absolutely still be creative by limiting yourself to classic clay patterns, but the fact is because you are limiting yourself, it stands to reason you are limiting the possible creativity = less creative

i mean im just speaking from an artist perspective here (as an artist). can think of it from a fashion standpoint. if you had access to any fabric and pattern, you could make something really creative, novel, and aesthetic. but you could also choose to be less creative, limit yourself to common fabrics/patterns, and make something thats tried and true and something you usually see people wear... literally nothing wrong with that

and just wanna be clear here that im not judging anyone buying clay-like tinas. i dont care lol. ive owned tinas myself. and i think theyre great for the community. just wanting something novel from the tinas because the option is there but no one is taking it

 

[Gunnar]

Holy f*** did my snide (but not really, see below) comments really help to set off this firestorm of what value chips ought to be?

Crikey, all I said in reply to someone who was looking for 4x25 racks (instead of 5x20) was to "not buy chips that come in 25s because they are crap". What could I have possibly meant by this? Somehow some people saw this as a direct attack against Tina chips and those who would buy them which somehow meant that either the chips or the purchasers must be 'inferior' in some way. Let's just open up our minds, a little.

Initially, I was poking fun at the foible of looking for racks with barrel depths for 25 chips because only chips that were affordable happen to come in sleeves of 25. I was merely trying to hint in a possibly-too-subtle way that this is not the informed way to purchase chips or racks. Since these are items of utility, it is infinitely much more important to figure out, as has been said thousands of times, what you need to play your game. What type of game, how many players, stakes for cash, denoms for tournaments, total bank needed, how many rebuys, etc. What chips come in 25s and what chips don't is not yet relevant. You may find that your chip number needs have denominations that multiple easily into full racks of 100s, so how they come packed becomes moot. How you would jump to sourcing 4x25 racks without even defining what you need in chips is putting the pumpkin before the mice, so to speak.

Okay, then let's look at the "chips that come in 25s" quip. Lots of different types of chips come in 25s, but the vast majority of them are the very cheap injection molded slugged ABS stock design chips that you can find in any drug store on the Vegas Strip. Chips are not an investment vehicle in the grand scheme of things, but they are integral to a good game, and it might behoove someone to at least learn a little more about what options are out there, and their costs of acquisition. And yes, even Tina chips can be considered expensive (at almost 0.50 per chip shipped, now potentially exponentially more expensive due to the tariff war) compared to what else is on the market that's available, and most of them are in the sub 0.20 price category. But is there really anything of objectively great quality there? Probably not.

And in case anybody thinks I made a shot across the bow of ceramic owners, I have been a proud owner of custom ceramics since 2013, which I still use to this very day for my charity fundraising events. I have always been a proponent of ceramic chips for their quality and customization. I have never steered anybody away from Tina ceramics and have never failed to promote them as good quality options, alongside those of BR Pro and SunFly. However, I am constantly dismayed at the seeming need for all ceramic purchasers to mimic compression clay chip patterns instead of using them to their fullest customization potential. I am continually horrified by the development of ceramics with debossed molds that copy mold patterns that other people own and are still in production.

Spend what you like, play how you like, but be cool. And by being cool, I mean be unique, use your imagination, don't rip off others, and don't pretend to be something you're not, don't play the FOMO game. Great creations can come at almost all budgets.

Your comment was just the most recent in my mind. This thread was not directed at you.

I did not intend to start a headed debate just ask people to respect each other

 

[Labrat]

Worth keeping in mind that you're likely not shuffling the exact same chips over all those games/hands.

But i have a dedicated shuffle stack of Tinas and don't see any real wear on them after 10 hours or so as a data point. Could definitely see it over more time though just given sublimination dyes will only hold up so long.

This is a stack of 20 cards molds that I have been shuffling every day for at least a year now.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I don’t see any heated debate on this topic. It’s maybe 1 or 2 people. Across hundreds (thousands?).

We literally have guides on this topic, new molds, group buys, vendors, etc. Tina is a constant on the PCF front page, and an incredibly high % of new users are here specifically or end up specifically for Tina chips.

Okay so your chips won’t get into HoF consideration most likely or when you request design help, you won’t get a ton of active chipper feedback.

There’s a person every single day asking for design help on their latest design for tina chips.

There's a thread created today figuring out right Tina colors for Aria chips.
There's another thread created today for someone's custom design for chips through Justin/Tina.
Then theres about 5 Tina threads bumped in the last 24 hours on designs, orders, etc. that aren't related to someone's design.

Is anyone dogging those folks? Are the new people being shunned?

If so, I sure don't see it.

Meanwhile, the most common threads are shifting a different direction, designers have constant work, etc. You think people are still clicking on every thread where someone's asking for help, after 85%+ (or whatever random number) are all Tinas?

It's not right or wrong, it's just different.

We can argue for millennia about the line that's considered crossing with IP, we can have an insane amount of great information provided by Justin, Cratty, others, etc. But 6 pages here because someone said "what's with the Tina hate" is kinda absurd. Yes, I participated in this thread.

But this thread will die, eventually, and in 2 months someone will post the same thing. No different than the 3 times a year, many paged thread of, "is a group buy happening" or "whats happening to the chip market".

 

[Josh Kifer]

I don’t see any heated debate on this topic. It’s maybe 1 or 2 people. Across hundreds (thousands?).

We literally have guides on this topic, new molds, group buys, vendors, etc. Tina is a constant on the PCF front page, and an incredibly high % of new users are here specifically or end up specifically for Tina chips.

Okay so your chips won’t get into HoF consideration most likely or when you request design help, you won’t get a ton of active chipper feedback.

There’s a person every single day asking for design help on their latest design for tina chips.

There's a thread created today figuring out right Tina colors for Aria chips.
There's another thread created today for someone's custom design for chips through Justin/Tina.
Then theres about 5 Tina threads bumped in the last 24 hours on designs, orders, etc. that aren't related to someone's design.

Is anyone dogging those folks? Are the new people being shunned?

If so, I sure don't see it.

Meanwhile, the most common threads are shifting a different direction, designers have constant work, etc. You think people are still clicking on every thread where someone's asking for help, after 85%+ (or whatever random number) are all Tinas?

It's not right or wrong, it's just different.

We can argue for millennia about the line that's considered crossing with IP, we can have an insane amount of great information provided by Justin, Cratty, others, etc. But 6 pages here because someone said "what's with the Tina hate" is kinda absurd. Yes, I participated in this thread.

But this thread will die, eventually, and in 2 months someone will post the same thing. No different than the 3 times a year, many paged thread of, "is a group buy happening" or "whats happening to the chip market".

Hot dogs are a sandwich.

 

[GreatWhiteDope]

Hot dogs are a sandwich.

LMAO. pretty sure this should be it's own thread. And I agree. It's one of my favorite sandwiches.

 

[chippitydoodah]

LOL. See, now I wish I could get them in time for Irish's meetup and force you to play with them all weekend.

He has a Mets set...I'll have to make a personal request

 

[Coyote]

Now, someone who wants to go fast and experience the fun isn’t likely to buy a Ferrari. They can admire it, dream about it, maybe even work toward it. But in the meantime, they might build one hell of a go-kart—customized, tweaked, and tuned with passion, effort, and every spare dollar they’ve got. That go-kart becomes their way of racing, their way of living the dream on their own terms. And in spirit? It’s their Ferrari.

Any serious racing go-kart is many times more exciting and demanding than a Ferrari or top Porsche, both in terms of driving ability and physical condition of the driver.

“it’s good enough” is a pretty low bar. Some of us just don’t settle for “good enough”.

Better is the worst enemy of good. As a French chef put it (he meant it for women too), "if it's good, there's no better".

Proverbs apart, "Tina" woudn't have had such a success if "she" hadn't filled a huge gap in affordable, fairly durable, customisable chips. All well up to that point, especially for staunch believers in unregulated capitalism and free trade without any tariffs.

What is insane and internationally unlawful is the copying of other people's Intellectual Property, by producing exact copies of higher quality products, just like fake Luis Vuitton handbags etc.
(Regulated capitalism would have enabled the Government of the importing country to check the quality standards of the product, as well as any probable IP infringement).

As for myself, I only ordered a set in Greek Key from Tina, for the sole reason it was not available anymore, anywhere else. If the MGK belonged to CPC, I would have sold my body to the night (like Roxanne) rather than resort to the Chinese slave-labor industry.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

yea and I mean there's nothing wrong with being less creative

you can absolutely still be creative by limiting yourself to classic clay patterns, but the fact is because you are limiting yourself, it stands to reason you are limiting the possible creativity = less creative

i mean im just speaking from an artist perspective here (as an artist). can think of it from a fashion standpoint. if you had access to any fabric and pattern, you could make something really creative, novel, and aesthetic. but you could also choose to be less creative, limit yourself to common fabrics/patterns, and make something thats tried and true and something you usually see people wear... literally nothing wrong with that

and just wanna be clear here that im not judging anyone buying clay-like tinas. i dont care lol. ive owned tinas myself. and i think theyre great for the community. just wanting something novel from the tinas because the option is there but no one is taking it

Except that you are judging. When you say someone is less creative because they don't like the same thing that you like, that's judging.

 

[quintooo]

Except that you are judging. When you say someone is less creative because they don't like the same thing that you like, that's judging.

don't think I ever said I don't like Tinas

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Except that you are judging. When you say someone is less creative because they don't like the same thing that you like, that's judging.

I personally love both kinds of chips but I don't think he's judging your taste or preference, he's objectively speaking about creativity as the bounds on your creation. By definition, if you're emulating clay chips, a confined medium, you have less options. I don't see it as him saying ceramics-emulating-clays are worse, just that its confined to what clays can do instead of open-ended.

 

[quintooo]

Except that you are judging. When you say someone is less creative because they don't like the same thing that you like, that's judging.

I'm on tinas side, I've felted them and complimented them!!

I HAVE since changed my mind on tina copying designs though. But still Tina's are great.

sounds like there are some new designs or chips from Tina; can't wait to see them

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New Aria chips went in play. I'm a big fan.

View attachment 974679

top boat vs top boat vs straight flush in 3-hand holdem (is that the name of the game? @RichMahogany), finally got my group to play some more mixed games. Playing limit 1/2. They got hooked. Scarney is next, probably my favorite mixed game after SOSHE.

Ignore the 5 cent chips, we were playing NLHE until short handed.

I personally love both kinds of chips but I don't think he's judging your taste or preference, he's objectively speaking about creativity as the bounds on your creation. By definition, if you're emulating clay chips, a confined medium, you have less options. I don't see it as him saying ceramics-emulating-clays are worse, just that its confined to what clays can do instead of open-ended.

^^^

 

[Cratty]

On the subject of emulating clay spots... IMO only, my opinion may change (and often does):

I've gone around/around on the emulating clay subject in my own head, but after playing around with custom faces/spot enough.. Frankly I just came back to the traditional clay spot look. I love how simple/discernable they are. They make the inlay pop even more. Sure I could add text or an image on the rolling edge (I'm not a big fan), make more unique spot patterns (I have), completely change the chip face (also have), but there's something about the big/bold/solid colors. I also am not the biggest fan of "too perfect" lines either.. I've done that on a few sets, which is fine, but like the character of the more "drawn on" look (but set by set dependent). I just feel like even if clays never existed, we might have likely found ourselves evolving designs that way anyway.

Feels like this argument feels somewhat similar to digital vs physical painting... which I know was a controversial topic in the art community when that migration was taking place, but now both mediums are pretty widely accepted (and now that community is just anti-AI even as a tool, but likely changing even there some as many are using it for parts or concepting).

But hey, in time we'll get more knuckleheaded ideas which might change the ceramic design landscape, but expect it to take some time as we're figuring out how to make the hybrid ceramics shine/differentiate even more.

 

[Gunnar]

People love edgespots, edge spots are designed to be useful and cool. There are companies that make clay chips that spend a lot of money to be able to provide different edgespots. Why so people always think we can out design those edgespots as soon as we go ceramic? Maybe the existing edgespots are popular for a reason?

 

[Cratty]

One consideration too that I forgot to mention.. I started off with Tina with more hard line edgespots, but migrated more and more over sets to the "drawn/clay" style also just because it also plays to their strengths with alignments.

Hard line - with printed misalignment:

"Drawn" with misalignment.. looks obvious/out of place:

 

[Tight_Lay_DOWN]

Some could say edgespots that are emulated / replicated with color and size / location on the chip are someone else’s IP.

Many Edgespot patterns have names and numbers and dates when they were used and invented.

Is it considered art , expression, has it existed long enough to be in the public domain?

Don’t know , but I do like them chips.

I use Tina‘s every week. I have tributes, original designs, edge spots from Paulsons and CPC and I created some of my own that are on various chips.

Happy to report that the players in four different home games I attend weekly (2 of which I host ) They love the Tina’s, they enjoy the Tina’s. I have 2 premium sets of Paulson’s that we’ve used and, well let’s just say we use the Tina‘s.

So they work. Not sure what all the debate is all about. They work, they’re useful, I almost forgot what the beginning of this thread was all about.

Oh, and I have shuffle stacks of Tina’s as well. I have a few of them and they get used every day and I use them mostly when I’m playing poker online or doing mondane tasks like checking email. They’ve held up fine, but of course they are ceramic and with overuse the will rub away, which you may notice in some of my posts of live stacks from a local Poker room that uses ceramics, they have mostly faded away, and that’s the nature of their material, but in game, they have not shown any signs of where.

Now I have some old leaded Paulsons that are wore down in height or thickness you would say, I can get a stack of 21 sometimes 22 old ones that are the same height of a stack of new 20 news chips. But the colors survive on the clay chilp. Different material, different price point different expectation.

 

[allforcharity]

LMAO. pretty sure this should be it's own thread. And I agree. It's one of my favorite sandwiches.

Shall we tell him? I think we should tell him....

 

[GreatWhiteDope]

Shall we tell him? I think we should tell him....

So tell me already. At least that way I will know why I look like a moron.