Monthly home game in a weird spot...thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[warma]

@legonick - where are you at? What did you do and how is your game?

 

[AuburnSeth]

That's an interesting perspective. My group strongly prefers tournaments because they are more lighthearted and better atmosphere. Each losing hand costs you equity, but most recreational players don't think in terms of equity. OTOH, every hand lost in a cash game costs you real money.

hmm. I have played in barely any live tournaments so I don’t have much first hand experience, but here are my thoughts on why cash would Be preferable and more lighthearted for me:
1: I would rather play the whole time and come out a small loser than play for 2 hours and lose and be done, even if the upside is to win 4x my buy-in (I will say, this level of intensity for risk/reward does seem fun for every once in a while)
2: somebody here had a good point - in cash you can always have a path back to being in the black, Up to the last few hands of the night you could be in the positive, back from the brink
3. The reason cash games seem more lighthearted to me is that people are expecting to sit down And play/drink/talk for 5 hours, so we’re here for the long haul to have a good time. in Tournaments you pick your spots and capitalize so you don’t get booted
4. You mentioned a tournament where the blinds went up so fast that “there were some flips in there”, whereas in my mind you can play more solid poker theory in the long run with cash as opposed to “the blinds go up so fast, I have to shove with Ace 7 here”

Thoughts?

 

[ekricket]

hmm. I have played in barely any live tournaments so I don’t have much first hand experience, but here are my thoughts on why cash would Be preferable and more lighthearted for me:
1: I would rather play the whole time and come out a small loser than play for 2 hours and lose and be done, even if the upside is to win 4x my buy-in (I will say, this level of intensity for risk/reward does seem fun for every once in a while)
2: somebody here had a good point - in cash you can always have a path back to being in the black, Up to the last few hands of the night you could be in the positive, back from the brink
3. The reason cash games seem more lighthearted to me is that people are expecting to sit down And play/drink/talk for 5 hours, so we’re here for the long haul to have a good time. in Tournaments you pick your spots and capitalize so you don’t get booted
4. You mentioned a tournament where the blinds went up so fast that “there were some flips in there”, whereas in my mind you can play more solid poker theory in the long run with cash as opposed to “the blinds go up so fast, I have to shove with Ace 7 here”

Thoughts?

If you want a game of easy decisions, casual play, laughs, joking with your players, just play Uno. Costs way less to spread and caters to the mindless.

 

[Poker Zombie]

To start, I'll just say that tournament or cash are both fun, so I won't disrespect either. I'm willing to play both, and willing to avoid either depending on the make-up of the game (such as a poor blind structure in a tournament). I simply prefer tournaments for relaxed play.

1: I would rather play the whole time and come out a small loser than play for 2 hours and lose and be done, even if the upside is to win 4x my buy-in (I will say, this level of intensity for risk/reward does seem fun for every once in a while)

If you play the whole time (lets call it 5 hours) and are a small loser, you are in the realm of being an average player. A great player may prefer cash, as they will consistently cash up more frequently. In a tournament, an average player cashes just about as often as a good player, but the good payer ladders up higher.

For a casual player, cashing 25-33% of the time (home game payout tables) keeps them happy, in much the same way a slot player (the ultimate casual gambler) has consistent "wins", even though over the long term the slot player is losing.

2: somebody here had a good point - in cash you can always have a path back to being in the black, Up to the last few hands of the night you could be in the positive, back from the brink

Tournaments and cash play the same way here. "Chip and a chair" is an expression that began in tournament play. If you are down to a single chip in a cash game you are probably reaching into your wallet.

3. The reason cash games seem more lighthearted to me is that people are expecting to sit down And play/drink/talk for 5 hours, so we’re here for the long haul to have a good time. in Tournaments you pick your spots and capitalize so you don’t get booted

The elimination aspect of a tournament and a no-limit (or pot limit) cash game are the same. The difference is, in the cash game, you can keep playing, as long as you are willing to lose more money. In a limit cash game, I concede the point. Limit is way more casual and you are far less likely to go bust. However, Limit feels like a boring "old man coffee" game to me (as I sit here, eligible for retirement, typing this with a cup of coffee).

4. You mentioned a tournament where the blinds went up so fast that “there were some flips in there”, whereas in my mind you can play more solid poker theory in the long run with cash as opposed to “the blinds go up so fast, I have to shove with Ace 7 here”

I feel like you just made my point for me. Which is more casual: A flip or studying theory?

 

[AuburnSeth]

If you want a game of easy decisions, casual play, laughs, joking with your players, just play Uno. Costs way less to spread and caters to the mindless.

I disagree. I didn’t want a game of easy decisions - but casual play? laughing? Jokes? Of course. I’m not a pro and I don’t rely on poker to supplement my income. a better question is: why do YOU play poker without expectation for casual laughing and jokes?

 

[AuburnSeth]

I feel like you just made my point for me. Which is more casual: A flip or studying theory?

I get that a flip is easier and maybe more casual, but I can still play a cash game with good theory can still be casual with friends.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I get that a flip is easier and maybe more casual, but I can still play a cash game with good theory can still be casual with friends.

Fair enough. If you are playing with good theory and don't have to think about charts/ranges/position (it comes natural) then you would classify as a good player. Good players lean heavily toward cash games, as they tend to be consistently more profitable.

This topic has come up multiple times over the years. The majority of good players prefer cash.

The OP was looking to mix good players and recreational players. This is the welcome mat for tournament play, as the recreational players will consistently cash in 3-4 games, but the rec will rarely cash in a cash game.

In casinos I play more cash games. At home it's 94.75% tournament play. It keeps the WSOP-level players happy with big cash-outs at the top of the pay table and keeps the drinking players min-cashing for all of eternity. For a game trying to grow with a mix of players, tournaments are the best option.

 

[AuburnSeth]

Fair enough. If you are playing with good theory and don't have to think about charts/ranges/position (it comes natural) then you would classify as a good player. Good players lean heavily toward cash games, as they tend to be consistently more profitable.

This topic has come up multiple times over the years. The majority of good players prefer cash.

The OP was looking to mix good players and recreational players. This is the welcome mat for tournament play, as the recreational players will consistently cash in 3-4 games, but the rec will rarely cash in a cash game.

In casinos I play more cash games. At home it's 94.75% tournament play. It keeps the WSOP-level players happy with big cash-outs at the top of the pay table and keeps the drinking players min-cashing for all of eternity. For a game trying to grow with a mix of players, tournaments are the best option.

Well, I’m actually not very good. Not a winning player. I think I’m on the way to becoming one, and learning a lot, but the theory in my head is much more solid than my play at the table. I can play solid for 3 hours and lose it all in 10 minutes due to verifiably poor play

 

[ekricket]

3. "Friends" - there for the drinks and chatter more than the cards. Usually not great poker players, but usually cheerful and have higher patience. But they tend to not RSVP and don't much care about the game...if something else comes up that they'd rather do, the game is left in the dust.

I feel like I'm looking for a game full of 4s, but have mostly 3s with the occasional 1s who come in, crush, and never return.

For a cash game where you can come and go as you please - no real “start” time for players I’d worry some that it would make it even easier for the #3’s to blow it off, thinking that they will go over when “they finish what they are doing” of course then they are too tired or get too involved in the other things to make your game.

There is a lot of talk around people getting knocked out of tournaments and having nothing to do - maybe sell it as mainly a get together but also where some poker will be played. For example a barbecue that starts at 5:00 for everyone, then start an early tournament for the ones that have to leave early about 6, then cash game for anyone who stays late, say after 9. Then the socials can socialize a bit more as the tournament plays out and by the time the cash game starts the family’s and nonplayers have an exit moment if they wish.

 

[Nine_high]

I suspect you would use this in a situation where you were trying to get a tournament wrapped up in a shorter amount of time, for whatever reason. Maybe to move on to a cash game afterwards? And if I'm understanding correctly, by equity chop, I'm assuming the amount you win is dependant on the chips each player has left? So if the two are close to 50/50 it's about the same as a regular chop, but if one dominates the other then it's more like a typical first place / second place split? Or otherwise somewhere in between?

And since he says forced - then there is no agreeing to it by the last two players. Organizer of the game has decided in advance that the tournament stops once it is down to two players, and equity is used to determine the amount of the payouts. I can see that it has some advantages, but I'm like you @legonick I prefer to Play it out.

Then you just do an ICM chop. That's the most objectively fair way to do or force a chop.

 

[4SUMERZ]

I've hosted a monthly poker game for a decade, started out playing tournament style, $20. No rebuys, but as many mentioned, the ones that get busted early is not much fun, until a new game is started.
We did the tournament setting for a year, then we polled the players, and we have played cash games ever since.
No big stakes, $20. For starting stack, $0.25/$0.25 blinds.
Rebuys are available once a stack get below $5.00, then only to a stack of $20. They can also rebuy $5.00, $10.00 or $15.
This gives more options for the amount that you want to spend.
We play for 4 hours change decks each hour, then once around the table prior to cash our.
I have a table that sits 8, have 12 that like to play, so when I put out the text or email to my usual 8, they must RSVP before a certain time or get replaced by those others on the spare list.
I always have a full table. Drinks and snacks are on the house.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

are you set on STT? Cash games Are probably more lighthearted and better atmosphere. Plus everyone can theoretically be a small winner/loser as opposed to needing to be in the top 20% to get paid. Also, the timing is looser, If you need to show up later or leave earlier. You might get more people to bite on playing if its cash
that’s my 2 cents. But my group never does tournaments.

Ayo, how are you finding all these threads to necro?

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Cash over tournament all the way, for all the reasons given by @AuburnSeth I do enjoy an occasional tournament, but for the most part, if I'm going to play poker for an evening, I want to play until the game ends, or until I decide I'm ready to leave. Who knows when I might get knocked out of a tournament? What fun is that. I dedicate a night to playing and am forced to quit before it's over!

I know a guy who lives nearby and hosts a game twice a month. His group only plays tournament. I'll go once in a while, but if he were hosting a cash game, I'd be there almost every time. Instead I drive 45 minutes 3-4 times a months to play with other guys who play mostly cash. I'd play cash 2-3 times a week if I could find the games. I have no interest in playing tournament more than once or twice a month.

 

[Nine_high]

Cash over tournament all the way, for all the reasons given by @AuburnSeth I do enjoy an occasional tournament, but for the most part, if I'm going to play poker for an evening, I want to play until the game ends, or until I decide I'm ready to leave. Who knows when I might get knocked out of a tournament? What fun is that. I dedicate a night to playing and am forced to quit before it's over!

I know a guy who lives nearby and hosts a game twice a month. His group only plays tournament. I'll go once in a while, but if he were hosting a cash game, I'd be there almost every time. Instead I drive 45 minutes 3-4 times a months to play with other guys who play mostly cash. I'd play cash 2-3 times a week if I could find the games. I have no interest in playing tournament more than once or twice a month.

I can't argue with any of this.

To me, cash poker is poker. If I never played another tournament again, that would be ok with me. But I could play a cash game literally every day. I've done it for weeks/months on end while deployed. Now I settle for once every 6-8 weeks, because that's all I can manage to host with a young family. Every external game I play in is a tournament.

But I won't go so far as to write off tournaments altogether. They have a role in this. Even if it's just to teach people the game so they come to cash night

 

[grebe]

This thread is old AF, but I wanted to say hi to @Nine_high since he is local (to me). What branch of service?

 

[Nine_high]

This thread is old AF, but I wanted to say hi to @Nine_high since he is local (to me). What branch of service?

Hi! I'm an army contractor

 

[legonick]

@legonick - where are you at? What did you do and how is your game?

I got addicted to a video game and shut down the home game for a while. I do need to get it started back up, and would have a few people return for sure, but I feel a bit overwhelmed at trying to recruit a bunch of people again...it burns you out. Also I'm way behind on house stuff at the moment...so many projects to get done. But isn't that always how it is with house stuff?

If you want a game of easy decisions, casual play, laughs, joking with your players, just play Uno. Costs way less to spread and caters to the mindless.

Honestly, not a bad idea. I used to play "competitive Uno" in college...mostly just guys drinking and having fun, and luck.

 

[warma]

I feel a bit overwhelmed at trying to recruit a bunch of people again...it burns you out.

Totally agree. Took me a while, but I got my game going again and really enjoy it- all about the camaraderie… whether limit or Uno.