Does anyone know what’s up with this mold?
Left facing horse head (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mangatang
- Start date
Forty4
Full House
HHL
link to Eisenstadt’s mold design index page - showing HHL (md-66)
OP
OP
Horse head left, i presume. Maker? Rarity?
OP
OP
So Paulson, sounds good. Any interest, or blah?
CrazyEddie
Full House
These aren't Paulson chips as we know them today. The chips were manufactured by The Burt Company, before Paulson started making chips. Various companies distributed chips made on that mold, but they were all made by Burt.
Burt Co eventually became ASM, which eventually became CPC.
ekricket
Royal Flush
Nice find! Chips on the HHL mold are usually pretty old 1950s-60s, maybe as late as 70s? Like someone mentioned above, made by Burt (pre ASM/CPC). I want to say the distributor was Pat Sullivan who worked at Christy & Jones and eventually was part owner. CW Rice also owned the mold at one point as I have a sample chip from them. Most of the HHL chips i have seen where from Calif or Nevada and there seems to be a lot less HHL chips vs its mirror HHR.
These specific chips are listed as Unidentified in the Chip Guide (UFC) and a note says they were found in MS. Strange that the quarter has inserts and the rest are solids.
http://chipguide.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=UFHHRS&sort=type
These specific chips are listed as Unidentified in the Chip Guide (UFC) and a note says they were found in MS. Strange that the quarter has inserts and the rest are solids.
http://chipguide.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=UFHHRS&sort=type
ekricket
Royal Flush
The quarter is milled and relabeled. I think this set is large enough it never had quarters, they likely did the 10:1 thing at buyin/cash out
I don’t particularly like the spotted quarter, but sometimes you work with what’s available. If I found a solid and two racks worth I’d move to them. But slim pickings.
Jeff in Iowa
Pair
The information I have from a couple of sources is that Christy & Jones originally owned the HHL mold. (For example, see this early article by Howard Herz; http://www.ccgtcc-ccn.com/GreenFeltJungle.pdf).
The actual mold itself was designed by Bud Jones (the Jones half of Christy & Jones) around 1955. According to the Burt card records, they used the mold beginning in the 1950s, mainly for Nevada orders. Tom Haines, a casino pit supervisor, most likely with permission from Christy & Jones also had access to the mold and made orders on it for Las Vegas casinos.
Christy & Jones breaks up in 1965. Herz, wrote in the 1990s that Pat Sullivan, a former partner of Christy & Jones who was prohibited from selling gambling supplies in Nevada, likely sold it in California. (see above reference)
More recently discovered records indicate that the C.W. Rice Co. may have bought the mold in 1965, after the break up of Christy & Jones. They sold chips on the mold from 1965 and possibly into the early1980s, almost exclusively in California. They were based in Walnut Creek and San Jose both in northern California. C. W. Rice goes defunct in the late 1970s or 1980s, ASM gets control of the mold, but they don't really use it. CPC buys ASM and gets the mold, and they donate it to the Nevada historical society in 2014.
Below are Burt/C.W. Rice order cards from 1966 and 1971, in which they refer to it as just Horsehead. The HHL mold is the inspiration for the HHR mold, which was created about 10 years after HHL. The C. W. Rice order records have been found, and bought by a chipper, but not made public yet. My impression is that the majority of HHL chips date to the late 1960s and 1970s, and most were used in California. Nevada would be second. Its unusual for C. W. Rice chips to show up that far from California. If those chips pictured are actually from Mississippi, they may be more likely to date to the Christy & Jones (1955-1965) era. You could probably figure it out by looking at other hot stamped Christy & Jones and C.W. Rice chips, and see who used that specific font.
If anyone knows something more about the mold or C.W. Rice, I would love to hear about it.
The actual mold itself was designed by Bud Jones (the Jones half of Christy & Jones) around 1955. According to the Burt card records, they used the mold beginning in the 1950s, mainly for Nevada orders. Tom Haines, a casino pit supervisor, most likely with permission from Christy & Jones also had access to the mold and made orders on it for Las Vegas casinos.
Christy & Jones breaks up in 1965. Herz, wrote in the 1990s that Pat Sullivan, a former partner of Christy & Jones who was prohibited from selling gambling supplies in Nevada, likely sold it in California. (see above reference)
More recently discovered records indicate that the C.W. Rice Co. may have bought the mold in 1965, after the break up of Christy & Jones. They sold chips on the mold from 1965 and possibly into the early1980s, almost exclusively in California. They were based in Walnut Creek and San Jose both in northern California. C. W. Rice goes defunct in the late 1970s or 1980s, ASM gets control of the mold, but they don't really use it. CPC buys ASM and gets the mold, and they donate it to the Nevada historical society in 2014.
Below are Burt/C.W. Rice order cards from 1966 and 1971, in which they refer to it as just Horsehead. The HHL mold is the inspiration for the HHR mold, which was created about 10 years after HHL. The C. W. Rice order records have been found, and bought by a chipper, but not made public yet. My impression is that the majority of HHL chips date to the late 1960s and 1970s, and most were used in California. Nevada would be second. Its unusual for C. W. Rice chips to show up that far from California. If those chips pictured are actually from Mississippi, they may be more likely to date to the Christy & Jones (1955-1965) era. You could probably figure it out by looking at other hot stamped Christy & Jones and C.W. Rice chips, and see who used that specific font.
If anyone knows something more about the mold or C.W. Rice, I would love to hear about it.
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CrazyEddie
Full House
Amazing work!
Ben8257
Royal Flush
Ben8257
Royal Flush
@upNdown this thread seemed more fitting to talk about the weighted Burt Co. Chips, see post #11 above by @Jeff in Iowa , you will see the Forty Grand Order card, very interesting that the order was placed through C. W. Rice Co, but bottom right of the card Clearly says Burt Co. From reading that post they were different manufacturers. I have not found any "weighted" Burt Co. either but obviously where it says "spec heavy" they were in reference to lead.
Because others are not in the same Ball Park on weight
Guessing that was a special order obviously more expensive option and likely many of the card rooms didn't want to pay the extra?
Maybe @TRKingChips my buddy John could help here. Any idea how many of the Cali card rooms used leaded HHL chips, and any info on why a Burt Co card was used for a C. W. Rice order if they were different companies?
It is a night and day difference in feel with these heavier chips. The lighter ones... ehh no thanks but the heavy ones are honestly the best "feeling" chips I have ever felt!
Other examples of non "weighted"
Because others are not in the same Ball Park on weight
Guessing that was a special order obviously more expensive option and likely many of the card rooms didn't want to pay the extra?
Maybe @TRKingChips my buddy John could help here. Any idea how many of the Cali card rooms used leaded HHL chips, and any info on why a Burt Co card was used for a C. W. Rice order if they were different companies?
It is a night and day difference in feel with these heavier chips. The lighter ones... ehh no thanks but the heavy ones are honestly the best "feeling" chips I have ever felt!
Other examples of non "weighted"
BruceWayne
Flush
Those Forty Grand chips are uh, AWESOME
Super cool
Super cool
CrazyEddie
Full House
For old chips like this, usually they'll have been made by Burt. Burt was the main manufacturer of chips at the time. They had lots of different molds that they made chips on, including HHR, HHL, large and small greek keys, and the molds we're still familiar with thanks to CPC like jockey, fleur-de-lys, H-mold, and so forth.
The thing is, though, that Burt didn't sell their chips directly to the public. They sold them through distributors and resellers, companies such as Langworthy, H.C. Edwards, B.C. Wills, and C.W. Rice. Each of those distributors had their own molds that only that distributor was allowed to use. So Langworthy sold horse head right chips, HC Edwards sold H-mold chips, BC Wills sold large and small greek key chips, and CW Rice sold horse head left chips.
But no matter which mold was used, and no matter who the distributor was that sold the chips to the public, it was always Burt Co that actually manufactured the chips. So when you look at order cards like this, what you're seeing is a card used by Burt to keep track of what needs to be manufactured. The order would have come from the casino to the distributor (in this case, CW Rice), then the distributor would have in turn placed the order with Burt to get the chips made. That's why the order card says CW Rice on it, because once Burt is done making the chips they'll be delivered to CW Rice (who is Burt's customer) so that CW Rice can then in turn deliver them to their customer, the casino.
CrazyEddie
Full House
... and yeah, those Forty Grand chips are beauties. 
Enjoy them!
Enjoy them!
Nice chipes!
For reference, here is the weight of a CW Rice Sample chip. I assume that anything over 10g is leaded and would guess 9g+ is also leaded. Weights are differs by mold and color, so the best proof would be the order card if available.
For reference, here is the weight of a CW Rice Sample chip. I assume that anything over 10g is leaded and would guess 9g+ is also leaded. Weights are differs by mold and color, so the best proof would be the order card if available.
Papasatyr
Two Pair
Huh?! My HHLs weigh in at 8.2 grams. Didn’t know they could be that heavy.Nice chipes!
For reference, here is the weight of a CW Rice Sample chip. I assume that anything over 10g is leaded and would guess 9g+ is also leaded. Weights are differs by mold and color, so the best proof would be the order card if available.
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