Cash Game Button Straddles & Order of Action (1 Viewer)

[fieldsy]

Question for cash game hosts. Assuming your game allows straddles on the button (I know it's not common in some regions), where do you start the action? In the past, I have generally had the rule that action starts in the SB. Until recently, that was the rule in the closest actual cardroom to where I live. However, in the past month or so, that room (the Peppermill in Wendover, NV) changed to a rule that I have seen in some Vegas rooms and elsewhere. Under that rule, action starts UTG as usual, progresses in order around the table and then unless there is a raise, action skips the straddling player so the SB and BB act first, then jumps back to the button if there is no raise.

Just curious as to what folks like to do. I think the "starts UTG" rule probably results in fewer distracted players folding out of turn where they did not notice the button straddle. I also think that rule probably keeps the SB and BB in the hand more often, because when they have to act first with everyone behind them they don't get the same kind of "pot odds" decisions that the blinds get normally without a straddle. But I also think it's kind of a confusing progression of action, with the button getting skipped and everything. For the most part I like to run a cash game basically the same as it would run in a casino, and I'm not sure what to do with this rule.

 

[v1pe]

I have allowed button straddles in my game, and in the past it's been the same as you used to do...action starts in the SB.

I think that structure actually kills action though, so I've started to instead do the other way that you mentioned. The SB/BB first way seemed like more often ahtn not the blinds were incentiviezed to fold. More likely to have more players in the pot and more action if you do it the UTG and skip the BTN way.

I like the BTN straddle when I'm on the button...but I actually think the straight UTG straddle is the best type of straddle for the game.

 

[ChaosRock]

Not a fan of the Mississippi Button Straddle myself, where action starts with SB. At my place, Button Straddle is allowed but only Vegas style, where action starts UTG, skips the BTN, goes to SB, BB and comes back to BTN. If there is a raise before it gets to the BTN, BTN acts before the blinds.

Reason why I don't care too much about the SB starting the action is I believe it is too much of a burden on the blinds. Not only do they have to post blind (duh!) but they are first to act on all streets. I think Vegas BTN straddle is a good compromise.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I don’t allow button straddles in my game. Too much advantage for the Button. I only allow UTG to straddle. When using a button straddle at the local casino the blinds act first and they end up folding a lot more being first to act.

 

[BGinGA]

Straddles are stupid. Button straddles are even more stupid. Skipping action order because of an artificially-introduced straddle bet is incredibly stupid.

No offense intended to those of you who may employ any of the three methods, but if you're counting on me as a player under those conditions, I'm out.

 

[detroitdad]

I don’t allow button straddles in my game. Too much advantage for the Button. I only allow UTG to straddle. When using a button straddle at the local casino the blinds act first and they end up folding a lot more being first to act.

I don't allow button straddles at my house either. However I will allow everyone to straddle up to the button starting with UTG. We rarely get more than one, maybe two straddles.

 

[fieldsy]

Straddles are stupid. Button straddles are even more stupid. Skipping action order because of an artificially-introduced straddle bet is incredibly stupid.

No offense intended to those of you who may employ any of the three methods, but if you're counting on me as a player under those conditions, I'm out.

I'm not much of a straddler myself, so I'm mostly with you. Although from the perspective of the straddler, I think the UTG straddle is the more stupid option. I don't see much value in putting in more money than necessary without seeing my cards, but if I have to do so I would rather do it when I know I will have position throughout the hand. In any case, in my part of the country, straddling from the button is commonly allowed, and it would not be well-received to disallow it in the home game. So I have to have a rule to handle it.

 

[trigs]

I don't allow button straddles in my game. It must be UTG starting the straddle but I allow it to keep going around as long as you want. My games are $0.50-$0.50 blinds with straddle doubling each time. I have seen $1 - $2 - $4 - $8 - $16 straddle on but it's rare. Usually it's only one or two straddles at most.

I've never heard of a button straddle and then making SB and BB act next. That seems just dumb to me. If that was the rule I'd probably straddle my button every single time just to make blinds fold and always have best position. Button straddle and then UTG acting first in normal order seems a lot better imo. However, again if I had the choice, I wouldn't allow the button straddle.

 

[rimmerryan]

Either way it is done... the button should be last to act unless another raise takes place before it gets to them.
That's the whole purpose of doing it

 

[fieldsy]

I've never heard of a button straddle and then making SB and BB act next. That seems just dumb to me.

I'm trying to remember where all I've played with the "starts in the SB" rule. As I mentioned, that was the rule in Wendover (casino town on border of Nevada and Utah) until just recently. And I found an old blog post online that said this was the rule at Caesar's Vegas properties several years ago, but I'm not sure if that's still the case. It may be dying out, though, in favor of the rule beginning action on the UTG player as usual. This discussion is helping to crystallize my thinking.

 

[v1pe]

I'm not much of a straddler myself, so I'm mostly with you. Although from the perspective of the straddler, I think the UTG straddle is the more stupid option. I don't see much value in putting in more money than necessary without seeing my cards, but if I have to do so I would rather do it when I know I will have position throughout the hand. In any case, in my part of the country, straddling from the button is commonly allowed, and it would not be well-received to disallow it in the home game. So I have to have a rule to handle it.

The purpose of the straddle (how I see it anyway) is simply to drive more action by increasing the dead money in the pot preflop and artificially bump up the stakes for a hand. It's definitely -EV to straddle UTG from a "computational" viewpoint, but it can be +EV if it can drive action and make people make mistakes.

I like what the straddle does to the game, but I'd rather implement a 3rd blind or an ante so that it's not optional.

 

[BGinGA]

I'd rather implement a 3rd blind or an ante so that it's not optional.

And that's probably my biggest complaint: it makes zero sense to randomly raise -- and in most cases, double or more -- the base stakes of ANY game, be it poker, backgammon, or Uno. Why should my 72o hand be played for twice as much as my AA hand, when both were randomly dealt?

If all of the players want to raise the stakes -- or promote more action -- then there are much better ways to accomplish it than implementing optional straddles which occur on random hands.

 

[fieldsy]

And that's probably my biggest complaint: it makes zero sense to randomly raise -- and in most cases, double or more -- the base stakes of ANY game, be it poker, backgammon, or Uno. Why should my 72o hand be played for twice as much as my AA hand, when both were randomly dealt?

If all of the players want to raise the stakes -- or promote more action -- then there are much better ways to accomplish it than implementing optional straddles which occur on random hands.

Again, I don't really disagree. But if other people want to make -EV decisions that may benefit me in a zero-sum game, my lifelong policy is to allow it.

 

[CraigT78]

Straddles are stupid. Button straddles are even more stupid. Skipping action order because of an artificially-introduced straddle bet is incredibly stupid.

No offense intended to those of you who may employ any of the three methods, but if you're counting on me as a player under those conditions, I'm out.

Come on - Straddles are FUN!