Tourney Bonuses - how do you pay them? (1 Viewer)

Blind Joe

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For those that include bonuses in their tournaments (high hand jackpot, bad beat bonus, 7-2, etc) how do you pay them out? Cash from the prize pot? A separate bonus pot? Something totally different like scratch cards?

What I like about bonuses (or at least the idea of them, since I only implemented one for the first time at my last tournament so take this with a pinch of salt) is that they give players an extra chance at winning something besides getting in the bubble. For a casual, low-skilled group like ours I think this would be a positive thing.

I'd like to have two or three bonuses at each tournament (I have plenty of ideas based around different themes and holidays, which our tournaments are usually organised around). It's possible that all or none might pay out, so I'm trying to figure out what might be the best way.

Our typical prize pot is between £90–130 split between the top 2 (small group with a £10 buy in & rebuy). Last time, I took the bonus out of the main pot but going forward it feels a bit off for the end prize money to be determined on whether or not the bonuses are cashed. On the flip side I could collect a separate bonus pot but I'm still getting a feel of how much my group is willing to invest in a night of poker and there's the question of what happens to the bonus pot if one or more of the bonuses doesn't cash out?

Any and all ideas and feedback welcome!

PS. My upcoming tournament this weekend (7 handed as things stand) will be our first bounty tournament so I've gone with a wild west theme. A little bit gimmicky I know but nothing cringy like fancy dress (I've been tempted to offer a chip bonus for wearing a cowboy hat but I have resisted :D).

Weekend bonus ideas:

ww magnificent seven.png


ww smoking guns.png


ww whip cracker.png
 
Those are typically cash game bonuses everyone agree too before the game starts. Example would be, if you show 2-7 and win the pot everyone owes you $1. For tournaments if you want to do like a high hand, you collect separate pot for that before it starts ex. $10 for pot, $1 for high hand. No way I'm acting as a casino paying all kinds of bonuses when you don't collect rake like they do. Those are gimmicks to get you in their house so they can take you over the coals. You are not doing that so I wouldn't pay that style.
 
Joe, this may not work with your group and ideas about changing bonuses.
My friend who is adding your three bonuses above to his 3- table league is doing the following:

$5 comes out of the prize pool each month for each bonus.
Hand must go to showdown to collect the bonus.
Bonuses that don’t get collected roll over to the next month.
He fully expects the whipcracker to go into next season and become a minor “jackpot” of sorts as it builds up.
 
Joe, this may not work with your group and ideas about changing bonuses.
My friend who is adding your three bonuses above to his 3- table league is doing the following:

$5 comes out of the prize pool each month for each bonus.
Hand must go to showdown to collect the bonus.
Bonuses that don’t get collected roll over to the next month.
He fully expects the whipcracker to go into next season and become a minor “jackpot” of sorts as it builds up.
We discussed it on the night and the consensus was to pay the bonuses out of the main prize pool if and when they paid out.

For my tournaments the main issue with "rolling over" unpaid bonuses is that I don't plan on having many (if any) of the same two bonuses in back to back tournaments, so it wouldn't really work.

Moving forward I think sticking to £5 for each bonus with a maximum of 3 of varying difficulty will minimise the impact of paying out of the main prize pool but will still add a little bit of unique interest to each tournament I host.

Anyway, I'm glad your friend took something from this, and thanks for your comments. :tup:

Edit: on the issue of showdown we haven't implemented that rule and have allowed bluffs to collect bonuses but maybe showdown is a better way to go. I'll have a think about that.

Something else that came up was the issue of hole cards and the make up of the hand. One of our guys tried to claim the magnificent seven bonus with a pocket pair of sevens but the hand he won with was a straight. Some argued that he should have been awarded the bonus but since only one of his hole cards was used in the winning hand I ruled against it. It was a contentious decision but ultimately I felt it was the right one. So I think my rule going forward will be that both hole cards need to be used in the winning hand unless clearly stated otherwise.
 
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I've been having a go at codifying my bonus rules and have come up with the following:

  1. To claim a hand bonus the winning hand must comprise both your hole cards (eg to claim "win with 666" you must hold two 6s) unless only one card is required (eg "win with a Q") in which case you need only hold the stated card.
  2. Hand bonuses are paid at showdown. No showdown, no bonus. Exceptions to this will be clearly stated (eg "win with a bluff"). Please ask for clarification if required.
  3. Statistical bonuses (eg "most eliminations" or "best hand of the night") will be paid at the end of the tournament.
 
About the showdown requirement: Depending on the particular bonus, it can affect the way a hand is played. This is not a good thing to do in a tournament because the play should be to win as many chips from one's opponent, not to soft play in order to win a bonus. If that happens, everyone's equity is affected. This probably isn't a big deal in your game, but you should be aware of it.
 
About the showdown requirement: Depending on the particular bonus, it can affect the way a hand is played. This is not a good thing to do in a tournament because the play should be to win as many chips from one's opponent, not to soft play in order to win a bonus. If that happens, everyone's equity is affected. This probably isn't a big deal in your game, but you should be aware of it.
Can you explain that a bit more please. What do you mean by soft play? And what affects on play do you foresee that I should be considering? In your opinion should I remove the requirement to go to showdown?

Cheers

Edit: not sure how much difference this makes but because my bonus payments are pretty low (half a buy in / approx 5% of 1st place payout) perhaps "bonus chasing" will be kept to a minimum and most hands will be played more or less as they would be normally, with maybe just a little more risk taken when a potential bonus is dealt. Full disclosure: I proved this absolutely wrong at my bounty tournament when I went all in on the first hand with 72o for the sake of a £5 bonus and had to pay £10 to get back in, but I think we all learned an important lesson in my group that night! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
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Can you explain that a bit more please. What do you mean by soft play? And what affects on play do you foresee that I should be considering? In your opinion should I remove the requirement to go to showdown?

Cheers

Edit: not sure how much difference this makes but because my bonus payments are pretty low (half a buy in / approx 5% of 1st place payout) perhaps "bonus chasing" will be kept to a minimum and most hands will be played more or less as they would be normally, with maybe just a little more risk taken when a potential bonus is dealt. Full disclosure: I proved this absolutely wrong at my bounty tournament when I went all in on the first hand with 72o for the sake of a £5 bonus and had to pay £10 to get back in, but I think we all learned an important lesson in my group that night! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
As an example, let's say you have 77 and flop A77 with 2 hearts. It's early in the game and villain has a bigger stack than you, so you can't win a bounty. How would you size your bets? Would you check the river if villain looked like he missed and was getting ready to fold to any bet, just to get to showdown? Of course there are additional factors to consider, but trying to get to showdown with a big hand by betting differently in order to win a bonus should not be one of those factors. It's not fair to the other players. It's also against the rules.
 
I’m pretty sure Abby means that if you’ve got pocket 7s and flop a set maybe you bet less than you would otherwise in order to make sure it goes to showdown. I think they way you are doing it, Joe, that won’t be as much of an issue.

They way my friend is doing things will cause that problem, b/c the bonus may eventually grow to a significant size relative to the buy-ins.

But in his game that is an acceptable outcome.
 
Ach, Abby you beat me to it by one minute!

Well, I agree with you that the showdown requirement makes it just a little bit less serious poker. Whether that’s good or bad depends on th game & the players.
 
As an example, let's say you have 77 and flop A77 with 2 hearts. It's early in the game and villain has a bigger stack than you, so you can't win a bounty. How would you size your bets? Would you check the river if villain looked like he missed and was getting ready to fold to any bet, just to get to showdown? Of course there are additional factors to consider, but trying to get to showdown with a big hand by betting differently in order to win a bonus should not be one of those factors. It's not fair to the other players. It's also against the rules.
I'm not sure what you mean by the bit on bold but I think I understand the rest of your post. I also didn't know that would be against the rules. I will have to consider all of this. Thanks.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by the bit on bold but I think I understand the rest of your post. I also didn't know that would be against the rules. I will have to consider all of this. Thanks.
I added the stuff in bold because being near or in the money, and having the chance to eliminate a player and win a bounty, would complicate the example.

I’m pretty sure Abby means that if you’ve got pocket 7s and flop a set maybe you bet less than you would otherwise in order to make sure it goes to showdown. I think they way you are doing it, Joe, that won’t be as much of an issue.

They way my friend is doing things will cause that problem, b/c the bonus may eventually grow to a significant size relative to the buy-ins.

But in his game that is an acceptable outcome.
Not exactly. We flopped quads for a probable lock. Either way, the point is that solely because of the requirement to go to showdown, we play the hand differently in order to keep the other person in the hand, including checking or not raising on the river (a prime example of soft playing).

I should have mentioned that my comments apply to tournaments only.
 
I added the stuff in bold because being near or in the money, and having the chance to eliminate a player and win a bounty, would complicate the example.
My mistake. Because of the topic I misread "bounty" as "bonus" and confused myself.

Not exactly. We flopped quads for a probable lock. Either way, the point is that solely because of the requirement to go to showdown, we play the hand differently in order to keep the other person in the hand, including checking or not raising on the river (a prime example of soft playing).

I should have mentioned that my comments apply to tournaments only.

What do you think of the following as an amendment to the rules I suggested in post #6?

1. To claim a hand bonus the winning hand must comprise both your hole cards (eg to claim "win with 666" you must hold two 6s) unless only one card is required (eg "win with a Q") in which case you need only hold the stated card. If your opponent(s) fold and you have made a winning hand you may show your cards to claim the bonus.

Rule 2, regarding the requirement for showdown, is removed altogether.
 
Just let someone claim the 77 by showing their and at the end of the hand. If their opponent folds they can claim by showing 77. If they make it to showdown and win with 77, that's good too.

If you win the hand, who cares if it comes at showdown or not? Won't affect action this way either.
 
Just let someone claim the 77 by showing their and at the end of the hand. If their opponent folds they can claim by showing 77. If they make it to showdown and win with 77, that's good too.

If you win the hand, who cares if it comes at showdown or not? Won't affect action this way either.
Say the bonus is "win with 77" and the winner of the hand tables a pair of 7s but his winning hand is actually a straight 45678, would you pay? I ruled it out because technically he didn't win with 77, he only won with one of his 7s. Maybe I was too picky! :p
 
We have a weekly game averaging 12-16 players. Everyone except for one guy agreed to pay $5 if anyone hits quads or better holding at least two cards in their hands. There are. iChat’s no one gets paid and other nights where we pay out 2-4 times. Keeps things interesting .
 
Say the bonus is "win with 77" and the winner of the hand tables a pair of 7s but his winning hand is actually a straight 45678, would you pay? I ruled it out because technically he didn't win with 77, he only won with one of his 7s. Maybe I was too picky! :p

This could be simplified to Win with pocket 77, both hole cards must play.
 
This could be simplified to Win with pocket 77, both hole cards must play.
That's essentially what I'm trying to convey in rule 1 so that it doesn't need specifying for each bonus.
 
Say the bonus is "win with 77" and the winner of the hand tables a pair of 7s but his winning hand is actually a straight 45678, would you pay? I ruled it out because technically he didn't win with 77, he only won with one of his 7s. Maybe I was too picky! :p

Honestly, I think that's super lame and needlessly complex. /\

I think you'll find you don't often pay out if they have to win specifically with 77.

I'd leave it as simple as possible. Win the hand (no chops) holding 77 and you get the bounty. Winning the hand might mean a raise and take it, a fold at some point on later streets etc. Who cares, as long as they are dragging chips.

Communicating that you have to have 77 and use the 77 to win seems like a headache. In that case you can't hit a flush, straight or get counterfeit and push a player off their hand with 77. What if (admittedly a rare what if) the board is showing a flush or straight and I have 77 and win the hand by forcing my opponents to fold, because I technically have a straight or flush but don't get to claim the 77?

The goal of these side payouts is to create action, so create them in a way that creates action. As it is currently it's just a reward for the guy who happens to flop trip 7's. Meh, If it's me, id rather pay the guy that tosses in a 4bet with 77 and earns the pot/bounty.
 
Third revision:

To claim a bonus you must win the hand whilst holding the specified cards. If your opponents fold before showdown you must show your cards to claim the bonus.

I'm not quite sure how to word the ruling for bonuses that require a set or quads though.
 
We always pay a bonus in our tournaments. The bonus is (almost always) equal to 1/2 the buy-in. Half a buy-in discourages altering your play by any significant amount, but allows a losing player a better chance of winning something.

The favorite one is the Bad Beat. The best losing hand at the end of the night wins. You may play the board, but the hand must go to a showdown (and you must show).
Others:
Best Hearts flush of the night (Valentines Day)
Bounty - $10 to eliminate the player that has won the last two events (only paid on complete elimination, if they rebuy it doesn't count
Sack Leader - collect the most bounties during the night (Super Bowl/ first weekend of football)
Hot streak - win 3 consecutive hands (Mid-summer heatwave)
End of the World - Player with the mot chips when the first player was eliminated. (Last day of the Mayan calendar)
Broken Hearts - A Bad beat but must have at least 1 heart play in the hole.
Martin Luther King (MLK Day) - 1 point for every hand won with a king as a hole card, most points wins
Lucky Hands (St Patrick's day) - 1 point for winning the first hand of each level, max of 21 points to be given out (that's all the Shamrock chips I have)

There are many, many more, but you get the point.
Key things I consider when doing a new bonus:
  1. It should usually favor players that will finish out of the money
  2. It should be extremely likely to hit
  3. Ties are possible, in which case the prize is split evenly between the two highest finishers on the night.
I'm not quite sure how to word the ruling for bonuses that require a set or quads though.
"Player must show to collect"
Does not matter about showdown, if the winner shows, they can claim the bonus. But the rule about no rabbit-hunting must be enforced.
 
We always pay a bonus in our tournaments. The bonus is (almost always) equal to 1/2 the buy-in. Half a buy-in discourages altering your play by any significant amount, but allows a losing player a better chance of winning something.

The favorite one is the Bad Beat. The best losing hand at the end of the night wins. You may play the board, but the hand must go to a showdown (and you must show).
Others:
Best Hearts flush of the night (Valentines Day)
Bounty - $10 to eliminate the player that has won the last two events (only paid on complete elimination, if they rebuy it doesn't count
Sack Leader - collect the most bounties during the night (Super Bowl/ first weekend of football)
Hot streak - win 3 consecutive hands (Mid-summer heatwave)
End of the World - Player with the mot chips when the first player was eliminated. (Last day of the Mayan calendar)
Broken Hearts - A Bad beat but must have at least 1 heart play in the hole.
Martin Luther King (MLK Day) - 1 point for every hand won with a king as a hole card, most points wins
Lucky Hands (St Patrick's day) - 1 point for winning the first hand of each level, max of 21 points to be given out (that's all the Shamrock chips I have)

There are many, many more, but you get the point.
Key things I consider when doing a new bonus:
  1. It should usually favor players that will finish out of the money
  2. It should be extremely likely to hit
  3. Ties are possible, in which case the prize is split evenly between the two highest finishers on the night.
Cheers @Poker Zombie

I have seen the bad beat bonus mentioned many times on here but my first thought is always that I'd fail at keeping track of them after a few too many beers :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: I am definitely going to steal "Hot Streak" for my Summer Solstice tournament though!

I never seem to be short of ideas for bonuses but this thread has definitely given me lots to think about in terms of their practicality and effect on play, so maybe not all my ideas can be put into practice in reality. That said, I've come up with 11 Halloween themed bonuses since starting the zombie resurrection thread along with a bit of artwork (I know, planning for October in August :oops:) and I'll be damned (see what I did there?) if I'm not using my Negan bonus.
If someone comes up with a reason why this should not be used in my zombie tournament then that's it, I'm out of here! :p


halloween - negan.png


"Player must show to collect"
Does not matter about showdown, if the winner shows, they can claim the bonus. But the rule about no rabbit-hunting must be enforced.

I'm not sure that answers my question. Say I have a halloween bonus "Number of the Beast: win with 666" - I just need to communicate that the winner of the bonus must hold a pair of 6s. If the bonus only required 66 then "the winner must hold the specified cards" communicates that perfectly, but in this case the winner must hold 2 of the 3 cards.
 
I usually just google up a casino that has a high hand bonus, and steal their lawyer-approved rules.
  • Hand must have at least 3 sixes
  • Both hole cards must play
  • Player must show
I'm sure there are others (which may or may not be relevant), but I'm getting ready to step out for the evening and don't have time to google up actual rules.
 
Revision 4:
  1. To claim a bonus you must win the hand whilst holding the specified cards (where 3 or more cards are specified you must hold 2 of them with the others being present on the board).
  2. You must show your cards to claim.
 

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