Tourney A You Only Live Twice tournament (1 Viewer)

Mr Winberg

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I'm lucky enough to have players who enjoy cash games after busting out of tournaments, therefore I've only held freezouts for a while. The next time I have a rebuy tournament (i.e., when not enough cash game connoisseurs sign up) I'd like to try a "prebuy", or whatever it's called when you pay the buy in and a rebuy/addon up front, and automatically get a new stack if you bust before the break, and if you've not used your rebuy you get an addon.

In the invite I'll give it the super corny name The You Only Live Twice Tournament:watching:

I'd like to try this because a) I've never tried it and b) I think it might play as a freezout but with cooler protection. And, as a bonus, everyone is forced to contribute fully to the price pool compared to a standard single rebuy/addon tournament.

1) What are your experiences? Is this format worth trying?

2) To make it play more as a freezout (i.e., to avoid manic play during the rebuy period) I've thought of maybe punishing the players who rebuy by making the addon 1.5 x the starting stack (Edit: in better words: rewarding survivors). Thoughts?
 
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I like everything but the stack punishment idea. Maybe I'm odd, but I like it when players play a bit more maniacally.
 
Your suggestion works well; we use it in a lot of our events. Players receive 1/2 of their paid stack up front along with a pre-buy chip or plaque, and may exchange it for the other 1/2 of their stack at any time between hands (no need to be felted, since they've already paid for it). Some choose to start with the full amount, some wait until their staring stack is small (or gone), and others redeem it only when forced to do so.

However, I don't think giving players bonus chips for 'saving' the second half of their buy-in until later in the event makes sense. All players paid the same amount and should receive an equal number of chips, regardless of when they choose to receive them.


It's a bit different dynamic when using a true Re-Buy chip, which imo works better when there is an intrinsic value attached (ie;, it can be used to re-buy a full stack, or exchanged for a small free add-on if not used).
 
Your suggestion works well
You think too highly of me! It's nothing I came up with myself, I read about it somewhere here at PCF. I'm claiming the name, though ;-)

However, I don't think giving players bonus chips for 'saving' the second half of their buy-in until later in the event makes sense.
I didn't mean saving, I meant surviving past the rebuy period, since in the OP you can't redeem at will.
If you survive, you are forced to redeem your add on, and my suggestion was that it pehaps could come with a bonus.

Ex: Player A and B have exactly the starting stack (X chips) in the last hand before the break. B folds for free, A plays and gets felted. A is automatically bought back, and starts after the break with X chips. B starts with 2.5X chips (or, if ditching the bonus idea, 2X chips)


no need to be felted, since they've already paid for it
I've read about this format somewhere. From what I heard, almost everyone usually redeems immediately, effectively making the structure a deepstack tournament. What's your experience, what percentage would you say chooses to start with 2 stacks?

a true Re-Buy chip, which imo works better when there is an intrinsic value attached (ie;, it can be used to re-buy a full stack, or exchanged for a small free add-on if not used).
This is more inline with what I meant. However, how do you define "small"? Wouldn't a full stack add-on be the true intrinsic value? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for engaging! :tup:
 
I've played in a PLO tournament with (3) prebuy lammers (equal to the original starting stack) a couple times. Use them whenever you want up to a certain level; use them or lose them. Some people redeem them all at the beginning, others redeem them slowly as they get felted, some redeem them all at the deadline or not at all.
I've seen someone win without redeeming any of them.

I'm sure i could dig up the structure sheet if anyone was interested.
 
I'm lucky enough to have players who enjoy cash games after busting out of tournaments, therefore I've only held freezouts for a while. The next time I have a rebuy tournament (i.e., when not enough cash game connoisseurs sign up) I'd like to try a "prebuy", or whatever it's called when you pay the buy in and a rebuy/addon up front, and automatically get a new stack if you bust before the break, and if you've not used your rebuy you get an addon.

In the invite I'll give it the super corny name The You Only Live Twice Tournament:watching:

I'd like to try this because a) I've never tried it and b) I think it might play as a freezout but with cooler protection. And, as a bonus, everyone is forced to contribute fully to the price pool compared to a standard single rebuy/addon tournament.

1) What are your experiences? Is this format worth trying?

2) To make it play more as a freezout (i.e., to avoid manic play during the rebuy period) I've thought of maybe punishing the players who rebuy by making the addon 1.5 x the starting stack (Edit: in better words: rewarding survivors). Thoughts?

I played in a Thursday night game for years with this format. You prepaid your total entry up front for everything. You get a T15000 starting stack, but the T5000 chip isn’t live unless you get felted or make it to the first break. So you get a half rebuy if you bust (so you can still play socially), or if you make it to the break it’s your 5000 chip add on. Saves time and hassle about who did what when and questions about how many times You can rebuy, etc....all that bullshit.

Worked great.
 
@ekricket To avoid confusion, when a player gets felted, would you exchange the T5000 chip for lower denominations? Otherwise, some T5000 are live, and some aren't.
 
Yes if you feel the need.
Truthfully it broke the early level madman play and very rarely anymore does anyone bust out before the first break. So even if it’s just changed in at the table we can remember what’s live and what’s not.
 
I've read about this format somewhere. From what I heard, almost everyone usually redeems immediately, effectively making the structure a deepstack tournament. What's your experience, what percentage would you say chooses to start with 2 stacks?

I believe my philosophy on this differs from @BGinGA ’s. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe his philosophy is to always take the chips up front. My philosophy is to do the opposite of the majority.

Also, and I believe @BGinGA has actual statistics, but my experience in his tournaments is that about half take the chips up front. I believe it used to be skewed more towards taking them up front, but it’s trending more towards taking the plaque now. In fact, I’m going to have to pay more attention because I just got in the habit of taking the plaque.

Usually, though, for me, I find it to be a moot point. When I take the plaque (which is almost always) I have rarely turned it in before required because I was felted (or short-stacked or the average stack was much bigger than my stack) and it has been even more rare that I have ever been all-in and wished I had cashed in my plaque. Of course, that comes down to playing style, too. Others may have the exact opposite experience.
 
Thanks, @Gobbs. If players use it differently it becomes interesting. I was worried it might just play as a deepstack tournament with the odd exception.
 
This is sometimes called a second chance tournament. We have done this several times in the past. My experience is that most players do not take the second chance chips up front in case they get coolered.

No punishment. Makes no sense to me.
 
Not getting all of your chips in front would be like short buying in a cash game. The whole goal of poker is exploiting weakness to the maximum value. If I have less chips than I could have had at a given time and I get the nuts, I am not being the most profitable player I could. Running bad happens, but it is no reason to count on a 2nd buy when you could have accumulated more chips by having more to start with.
 
So, are you saying that buying short is never a profitable strategy?
A profitable strategy and an ideal strategy are 2 different things. Anything can be profitable once. I can jam 2-6 off and win every now and then. Doesn't mean its ideal. An ideal play would be to have as many bullets as possible at your disposal to be able to fire the most at once.
 
A profitable strategy and an ideal strategy are 2 different things. Anything can be profitable once. I can jam 2-6 off and win every now and then. Doesn't mean its ideal. An ideal play would be to have as many bullets as possible at your disposal to be able to fire the most at once.
Only in the ideal situation.
This reminds me of the old saying, "The stock market can be wrong a lot longer then you can remain solvent."
 
A profitable strategy and an ideal strategy are 2 different things. Anything can be profitable once. I can jam 2-6 off and win every now and then. Doesn't mean its ideal. An ideal play would be to have as many bullets as possible at your disposal to be able to fire the most at once.

Super High Roller V was more or less this format. Out of the field of 40ish, only one opted to ever put more than the minimum chips in play. And that guy didn’t seem all that bright.

They had this format again this year at Triton Jeju for some of the NLHE events. I didn’t see anyone putting more than the minimum in play.

For reasons I cant articulate, all the pros seem convinced that the correct play is to keep your chips out of play as long as possible in a tournament
 
It seems as if you have voted down having a larger add-on than rebuy (i.e., punishing rebuys, or rewarding survivors, however you want to see it), so I'll scratch that idea. A larger add-on would also dilute the chipleaders' advantages even more, which perhaps isn't right.

Some of you give the players a choice when to redeem, and others use a strict rebuy/addon chip. I think I'll try the latter when the time comes, although I do like the added strategy involved with giving players the choice... As I said in the OP, as long as there are enough cash players attending, it'll be freezouts all the way! This is just a backup. :)
 
Super High Roller V was more or less this format. Out of the field of 40ish, only one opted to ever put more than the minimum chips in play. And that guy didn’t seem all that bright.

They had this format again this year at Triton Jeju for some of the NLHE events. I didn’t see anyone putting more than the minimum in play.

For reasons I cant articulate, all the pros seem convinced that the correct play is to keep your chips out of play as long as possible in a tournament

Early in a tournament, you really shouldn’t be getting all of your chips in play, anyway. Sure, there are the exceptions when two players get big hands, but most of the time, it’s not going to happen in a big stack format.
 

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