Betting habits, $20 vs $25 chips for home cash games (1 Viewer)

[mummel]

The $20 vs $25 chip debate for home cash games is a never ending circle (#quarterwars anyone?)

However, my question relates to what you’ve seen through experience with respect to how folks bet when there is a $20 vs $25 chip in play.

I played in my first higher stakes cash game this weekend where there were $20s on the table.

However, I found that folks were using 4x$5 chips to make $20 bets and we’re hanging on to their $20s as a store of value. They would burn through all their $5s, even when placing $20 bets, before exchanging their $20s to make change for some $5s.

I myself found placing $20 bets to be very simple with 4 chips. Easy to pickup and check with your eye without having to over think it. 5 chips on the other hand takes that extra second if mental energy to confirm you have the right amount.

I’m totally sold on using a $20 for home cash games for a host of other reasons, but this quirk of people not actively using them for betting started to bother me.

So anyway, 1) I was curious why you think folks would consistently bet with 4x$5 chips to place $20 bets, even when they had $20s in their stack.

And 2), do you think a $25 chip would be used more often in the pot vs a $20 chip (everything else being equal)?

 

[moose]

Nope. The purpose of $20 chips is to make rebuys easier. Personally I've never seen a $25 bill.

$5 is the workhorse chip. That's what people will bet.

 

[CraigT78]

If I have $5's I betting with those before a $20 or a $25. It matters not the denom of the chip. They hold value, and aren't going in the pot most times. If anything I will trade them for change when needed. Why bet with one chip, when you can do so with 4 or 5?

 

[mummel]

I meant to add. Folks mostly placed $25 bets using 5x$5 chips too (vs picking up a $20 chip and adding a $5).

For some reason, they just didn’t like to use the $20s to bet. I don’t have an answer for this. Really curious to understand the behavior.

 

[kmccormick100]

Higher denom chips are usually value holders, moreso with $100s than $20/$25s but it really depends on the stakes. For smaller stakes where people are buying in for $20/40/increments of $20 $20s are great, for anything above $1/3 where the buyins are commonly $100 increments I’d probably prefer $20s. It also depends on what players are used to/comfortable with in local casinos. In the Bay Area Bay101 and Lucky Chances use $20s, m8trix has $25s but they don’t play in the smaller games only $1/5/100s are live.

Generally I’m only going to use $20/25s to bet for bets greater than probably $35-40 dollars if they’re in play, it’s easier and more visible to cut out 4-8 $5s in a stack vs a single chip.

 

[CraigT78]

I meant to add. Folks mostly placed $25 bets using 5x$5 chips too (vs picking up a $20 chip and adding a $5).

For some reason, they just didn’t like to use the $20s to bet. I don’t have an answer for this. Really curious to understand the behavior.

It's a value chip. If I have 6 stacks of 5's in front of me, why bet with a $20/$25 when I have over 100 $5's?

 

[davin]

I prefer a $25 chip as I’ve never played 2/5NL in a casino with a 20$, simple

 

[trigs]

The $25s in my game are only used as bets that are higher than probably $40-$50ish (unless the person doesn't have enough $5s). Like moose said, $5 is the workhorse chip so it gets used most. I'll usually put out around 3 racks of $5s before adding $25s to the table.

 

[detroitdad]

I use both depending on which set hits the felt. There is absolutely zero difference in how the bets are made/placed.

Why bet with one chip, when you can do so with 4 or 5?

I mostly agree. It is fun to bet with one "$100.00" dollar chip. I did that on a river bet Friday night. I have to admit. It was fun. Oh, and it was one of the oversized 100 Vineyards that I acquired from Forest.

 

[trigs]

Another reason I personally like to bet with multiple chips as opposed to one chip is to avoid the accidental one chip equals a call mistake which I've done before when I haven't verbalized my raise.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

Part of it (or most of it, for some people) is probably just a mental thing.

I'm guilty of it myself, in that I feel like my stack is "bigger" when I keep my large denom chips in front of me. It's almost like a safety blanket - "Well, at least I still have those three $20 chips..." Even though the math is exactly the same whether I bet a single $20 or four $5's, and it's a poor methodology, I'm sure it's a legitimate thought process.

I'm sure there are also people on the reverse side who prefer to bet single/large denom chips so that their actual quantity of chips remains higher. While I prefer to hang on to my larger denoms, others might prefer to have 42 chips in their stack vs. having 39.

 

[Frogzilla]

I usually try not to bet with a single chip, as it’s a little ambiguous sometimes (one chip call, etc).

And then if I’m betting more, I still like more chips so that opponents have tougher time estimating pot size if they were too lazy to do the math.

I doubt it has anything to do with $20 vs $25.

 

[detroitdad]

I had fun on Friday night. Me: "Raise", then tossed an oversized one hundred chip into the pot. Jim: "Fuck", call Me: "Nuts". Jim: "Fuck"

lol.

 

[Rhodeman77]

In my home game the $5 is used most often since I put 500-600 of them in play before breaking out the $25’s. Later in the night as stacks condense and rebuys happen plenty of $25’s hit the table and the get used a lot as the bet sizes increase.

At the casino $1/3 Hold’em game $25’s are rarely bet if they are even on the table other the the big stack.

The $1/2 ($5) PLO game is different. The $5 & $25 are both workhorse chips. There are just as many $25’s on the table as $5’s especially later at night. Pretty much all rebuys will be a stack of $25’s. At that point the $500 & $1000 chips become the value chips for the big stacks.

 

[andy699669]

So what's defined as workhorse/powerhouse chips?

 

[detroitdad]

So what's defined as workhorse/powerhouse chips?

The work horse chip will be different for everyone. Its the chip that is used mostly in your specific game.

 

[mummel]

So to recap, you guys are saying it doesnt matter if the chip is a $20 or $25 in $1/$1 or $1/$2? It still wont get used vs the "workhorse" chip because of some unnamed human behavior? Interesting.

I also noticed that $25s also dont get used in casinos much at all during $1/$2. Guys will be bet 14x$5 chips before they use their $25s.............................. I dont get it.

 

[Leonard]

This topic has been pretty much beat to death, but my 2¢ is that if the game plays such that a rebuy is usually made with $20 bills, then a $20 chip works well. If rebuys are usually made with $100 bills, then $25 chips work better. Lots of reasons for this, but the biggest is that players who rebuy for $100, $200, or more have usually played in casinos where $25 chips are the rule.

 

[yone]

So to recap, you guys are saying it doesnt matter if the chip is a $20 or $25 in $1/$1 or $1/$2? It still wont get used vs the "workhorse" chip because of some unnamed human behavior? Interesting.

I also noticed that $25s also dont get used in casinos much at all during $1/$2. Guys will be bet 14x$5 chips before they use their $25s.............................. I dont get it.

Just my theory: having more workhorse chips on the table probably induces more action. I’m sure some players who value their higher denomination chips, let ‘risking big chips’ influence their betting and calling decisions. Also, it’s probably easier to mentally part with chips if you had a physically larger stack. The less chips you have in front of you, regardless of the amount, generally makes players tighter.

 

[mummel]

Just my theory: having more workhorse chips on the table probably induces more action. I’m sure some players who value their higher denomination chips, let ‘risking big chips’ influence their betting and calling decisions. Also, it’s probably easier to mentally part with chips if you had a physically larger stack. The less chips you have in front of you, regardless of the amount, generally makes players tighter.

This sounds like a heck of an interesting dissertation topic in human behavior. Degenerate gamblers not being able to part with their highest denom??? This thing needs a name!

 

[yone]

This sounds like a heck of an interesting dissertation topic in human behavior. Degenerate gamblers not being able to part with their highest denom??? This thing needs a name!

On a degenerate level, 'risk aversion' is not part of their vocabulary.
Also, tilt overrides all.

 

[Coyote]

On a childish, subconscious level, I have some trouble parting with a "rare" ('cause it's a higher denomination) chip, on the grounds that it's "too beautiful" to risk.
My path to rational behaviour is equally absurd: "Come on, it will bring you luck, being so beautiful; pour it in and you 'll get it back".

Other than that, 20s are more useable and practical. 25s become necessary in bigger games (deep 1/3 and higher) where given clay has to yield more bank.

 

[rowlin]

This sounds like a heck of an interesting dissertation topic in human behavior. Degenerate gamblers not being able to part with their highest denom??? This thing needs a name!

The Denomination Effect is apparently (maybe) a thing.

 

[MattyMatt]

I try to bet with the least chips possible. To me it's not about what I enjoy as far as fiddling with chips goes (sorry), but rather about what I enjoy as far as the game goes over all. I prefer it if it moves more quickly, and I find it annoying when people bet $2.50 with all 0.25 chips or whatever, because not only do we then have to spend more time counting that bet, and the pot, but it'll also take far longer for the winner to stack those chips.

That's my feeling about it, and my rationale.

 

[andy699669]

The work horse chip will be different for everyone. Its the chip that is used mostly in your specific game.

So, powerhouses are the highest frequency use chips?

 

[rowlin]

Or maybe the largest denomination.

 

[Mojo1312]

Just my theory: having more workhorse chips on the table probably induces more action. I’m sure some players who value their higher denomination chips, let ‘risking big chips’ influence their betting and calling decisions. Also, it’s probably easier to mentally part with chips if you had a physically larger stack. The less chips you have in front of you, regardless of the amount, generally makes players tighter.

This sounds like a heck of an interesting dissertation topic in human behavior. Degenerate gamblers not being able to part with their highest denom??? This thing needs a name!

I had fun on Friday night. Me: "Raise", then tossed an oversized one hundred chip into the pot. Jim: "Fuck", call Me: "Nuts". Jim: "Fuck"

lol.

^^ Exactly my attitude. The idea that workhorse chips induce more action is laughable. You can break down $100 ten ways to Sunday. Any poker player worth their salt is going call all ten if they think they have the winning hand. It is that simple.

 

[yone]

^^ Exactly my attitude. The idea that workhorse chips induce more action is laughable. You can break down $100 ten ways to Sunday. Any poker player worth their salt is going call all ten if they think they have the winning hand. It is that simple.

I agree that it is not logical. However, everyone that plays in a casino is not a great poker player. I know a bunch of people that play poker that are superstitious - which makes no sense to me.
Everyone will call if they felt confident they had a winning hand. But there are plenty of situations where there are risky calls or making a scary bet. Some people might become attached to higher denom chips, which might make them pass on those tough spots. It might not even be about breaking a chip, but having more chips in front of them increases action. Seeing a larger volume of chips might subconsciously make certain players feel like they have more to play with.
I’m sure the casino has studied these things.

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

Some of the players i play with with use the $25 chip when they feel strongly about their hands so they dont bother counting out $5’s. Also use it as a bluff too since most of us know how he bets lol. It can be a strategy chip in my game

 

[Mojo1312]

Having more chips in front of them increases action. Seeing a larger volume of chips might subconsciously make certain players feel like they have more to play with.
I’m sure the casino has studied these things.

Hooey.