WWYD: $3/5 NL weird spot (2 Viewers)

[bergs]

Friendly $3/5 NL meetup game in the local casino for a local poker semi-pro celebrity. First time playing casino NL in at least 18 months (maybe longer…). Super friendly table, my end is telling jokes for the last hour and having a great time, nobody really stuck it up at all.

I have T9ss and call a $15 raise from BB OTB 4 ways. Effective stacks are $500ish. Flop 872ssd. I make it $25, BB calls, everybody else folds. Turn is black T we check check. River is 4s and he bets $50 and I resignedly announce “call” suspecting he has a flush but I’m not good enough to fold, and I insta flip over T-high flush.

He mucks and dealer instapushes him the pot and I’m like “WHOA I SAID CALL NOT FOLD”. Keep in mind that we’re all wearing masks and it’s loud because of some sweepstakes bullshit they run on Thursday nights here.

Villain says “bro you said fold” and dealer confirms that. The entire rest of the table says “he said call”.

WWYD?

 

[MrCatPants]

Friendly $3/5 NL meetup game in the local casino for a local poker semi-pro celebrity. First time playing casino NL in at least 18 months (maybe longer…). Super friendly table, my end is telling jokes for the last hour and having a great time, nobody really stuck it up at all.

I have T9ss and call a $15 raise from BB OTB 4 ways. Effective stacks are $500ish. Flop 872ssd. I make it $25, BB calls, everybody else folds. Turn is black T we check check. River is 4s and he bets $50 and I resignedly announce “call” suspecting he has a flush but I’m not good enough to fold, and I insta flip over T-high flush.

He mucks and dealer instapushes him the pot and I’m like “WHOA I SAID CALL NOT FOLD”. Keep in mind that we’re all wearing masks and it’s loud because of some sweepstakes bullshit they run on Thursday nights here.

Villain says “bro you said fold” and dealer confirms that. The entire rest of the table says “he said call”.

WWYD?

Did you push in any chips? Or just the verbal?

 

[davislane]

Friendly $3/5 NL meetup game in the local casino for a local poker semi-pro celebrity. First time playing casino NL in at least 18 months (maybe longer…). Super friendly table, my end is telling jokes for the last hour and having a great time, nobody really stuck it up at all.

I have T9ss and call a $15 raise from BB OTB 4 ways. Effective stacks are $500ish. Flop 872ssd. I make it $25, BB calls, everybody else folds. Turn is black T we check check. River is 4s and he bets $50 and I resignedly announce “call” suspecting he has a flush but I’m not good enough to fold, and I insta flip over T-high flush.

He mucks and dealer instapushes him the pot and I’m like “WHOA I SAID CALL NOT FOLD”. Keep in mind that we’re all wearing masks and it’s loud because of some sweepstakes bullshit they run on Thursday nights here.

Villain says “bro you said fold” and dealer confirms that. The entire rest of the table says “he said call”.

WWYD?

Call the floor manager. You opened your hand he mucked, plus the entire table except for 2 people heard call.

 

[JMC9389]

Did you put in calling chips or just a single chip? Cards and chip location speak when in doubt.

Pretty easy call to the floor. I'd be exasperated if I clearly said "call" and villain mucks but gets shoved the pot

 

[riotouslevity]

Call the floor. Follow up with a chip in the pot to the verbal in general as best practice.

 

[ktran]

I've have verbally called many times in the past, but dealers request that I at least throw in a chip to call constantly. It has become a habit now because of the constant enforcement. I mean you didn't throw your cards in so, it's not a clear fold visually. When the rest of the players heard you said call is pretty strong evidence and it wouldn't be a good look for the management for the rest of the players. And when you show your hand, it's clear your not folding. I would definitely call the floor if the villain doesn't comply. I think you're missing value not raising the river though. Flush over flush is not too common and if he re-raises and tight he probably has it. I find it too nitty and losing value if you don't raise in this situation. I don't think many players at 3/5 have the capability of bluffing with re-raise. He'll just call with a weak flush. Dealers make mistakes, so it's a good habit to put one chip in to apply. I think some casino are fine with verbal call, but ever since I have been at the Beau, they make you put the chip in and don't do anything until the chip is in. Action is more clear than verbal so I'd probably make throwing a chip in a habit for there on to make no confusion. Kind of weird how the whole table heard call and dealer only heard fold. Maybe dealer is bias towards the villain a little bit and/or wasn't paying attention.

 

[Perthmike]

I'm never in a million years letting that go. Call the floor

 

[bergs]

Keep in mind that several players were opening their losing hands to show the vlogger semi-celebrity at our table — but she wasn’t involved in this hand at all (folded pre).

I said whoa hang on, I said call. He said he had AJss. I didn’t put a chip in as I’ve grown accustomed to pot pot pot call flip hand home games or limit structure where verbal seems to more sufficient given the action and stakes.

 

[bergs]

Dealer says I gotta call floor. Other player is definitely a reg and is a fun personable guy that everyone seems to like.

How is floor going to rule?

 

[ktran]

Dealer says I gotta call floor.

How is floor going to rule?

The floor does consider what the table heard, so it might go your way especially when you reveal your hand. It doesn't make sense for you to fold a flush with a low bet. You can't let that stand and call the floor no questions asked. Especially when the whole table except the dealer heard it. The villain, dealer, and management would have questionable integrity if it goes towards the villain. I could see they side with dealer's view to protect the villain as a regular, but it doesn't hurt to ask. If they side with the villain, it is crooked. Usually the villain should be reasonable and give you the pot after seeing your hand when the floor is called. Definitely fight your case. Poker is high variance itself, so every pot counts. Regardless if it's your only casino around and they rule it towards the villain or not, I'd definitely make it a habit to put one chip in. Some dealers suck and/or are bias. At the time I didn't like the dealer enforcing me to put one chip instead of having a verbal call stand, but as time went by I can see why it helps. A good dealer would ask what you said if they didn't hear what you said clearly. Dealers make mistake so it's good to make it a habit to put one chip in now. I don't even verbally say I call now and just put one chip in. People can be shady so just make it habit and there will be no questions. Even if it's a "friendly" game, call floor. It's good for everyone that the right thing is done. This can happen to them and don't want it to be a wrong establishment and happen to them.

 

[Mojo1312]

Looking for clarification after reading the O.P. The Villain is your brother?

 

[Rhodeman77]

Floor will say he has to go with what the dealer heard and awards pot to the other player

 

[davislane]

Floor will say he has to go with what the dealer heard and awards pot to the other player

sure hope not. open to exploitation.

 

[warma]

Keep in mind that several players were opening their losing hands to show the vlogger semi-celebrity at our table — but she wasn’t involved in this hand at all (folded pre).

I said whoa hang on, I said call. He said he had AJss. I didn’t put a chip in as I’ve grown accustomed to pot pot pot call flip hand home games or limit structure where verbal seems to more sufficient given the action and stakes.

He had ? Good fold.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

that’s a tough one. you’re obviously never folding a flush there.

 

[ktran]

He had ? Good fold.

If he really had nut flush and the nuts in this case, wouldn't he let that stand as a call instead of insisting it was a fold? If he had AJss wouldn't he just agree and say it's a call instead holding out until the floor intervene? Would he make a big deal out of it instead of okay you called? He could said whatever you can have it your way as a call and flip over the nuts.

The other scenario would be he actually had the AJss and he didn't want to reveal his cards as it could have been an angle from you to see his cards or at least see a reaction. Based on the reaction he could have used it to angle or let it go.

I would go with the first scenario though. If he really had the nuts with AJss, he would be a reasonable person and give you the right of a call if there was miscommunication. He then would clarify if I show my hand it will stand as a call. Which can be taken/seen as an angle from you if he has to answer ask that question.

Either way, just put one chip in and none of this would have happen. There's specific things to do to prevent angling and miscommunication. I thought verbal calls were fine, but I guess some people can't hear well or dealer sucks and/or cheating. I can see why dealers told me to put one chip in, some gray area from some people/situations.

*If a chip is thrown in, the eye from the sky can see it. For your own protection just throw a chip in. Visual evidence can clear situations up. Verbal can have some gray area. I guess mumbling can be used as angling. Luckily it wasn't a big pot.

 

[LeLe]

Floor manager will usually ask the dealer what happen and they only will need to make a decision if the dealer is unsure or not aware of what happen

If the dealer told the floor manager he heard fold, a firm floor manager is going to rule that as a fold

No tipping for the dealer regardlessly of the outcome until the next dealer change

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

The floor would probably ask me to leave the casino in that situation.

What makes no sense to me is the villain claiming nuts but not wanting your $50 call. That doesn’t pass the smell test.

 

[upNdown]

The floor would probably ask me to leave the casino in that situation.

What makes no sense to me is the villain claiming nuts but not wanting your $50 call. That doesn’t pass the smell test.

Of course it does. They’re wearing masks. Dealer says he heard fold, so it’s no stretch to believe the other player heard fold, too.

 

[doublebooyah85]

What happened? Sounds like you let the ruling go? Or so did the floor?

 

[upNdown]

I assume you lost here. I’m guessing the floor would side with the dealer, when there are players on both sides saying they heard two different things. It’s sort of a lesson to you to actually put chips in the pot when you want to call, to protect yourself.
This is kind of fascinating, because if he believed the players around you and ruled in your favor, doesn’t the other guy demand that his mucked nuts be retrieved? To prove his sincerity? But since they were mucked, they can’t play. And then, isn’t it possible that you angled him, with an inarticulate mumble of cold or fall?

 

[grebe]

Friendly $3/5 NL meetup game in the local casino for a local poker semi-pro celebrity. First time playing casino NL in at least 18 months (maybe longer…). Super friendly table, my end is telling jokes for the last hour and having a great time, nobody really stuck it up at all.

I have T9ss and call a $15 raise from BB OTB 4 ways. Effective stacks are $500ish. Flop 872ssd. I make it $25, BB calls, everybody else folds. Turn is black T we check check. River is 4s and he bets $50 and I resignedly announce “call” suspecting he has a flush but I’m not good enough to fold, and I insta flip over T-high flush.

He mucks and dealer instapushes him the pot and I’m like “WHOA I SAID CALL NOT FOLD”. Keep in mind that we’re all wearing masks and it’s loud because of some sweepstakes bullshit they run on Thursday nights here.

Villain says “bro you said fold” and dealer confirms that. The entire rest of the table says “he said call”.

WWYD?

Is it Pokerface Ash? If so, I like her...solid player and decent videos.

-put in a calling chip next time. Leave no doubt....especially when wearing a mask.

My guess is the floor would come over and ask where the guy's cards are....if he cannot show them and you still have cards, it's your pot.

Also, bet the turn.

 

[krafticus]

Does this outcome have something with noodles?

 

[Josh Kifer]

I'd make sure my mouth wasn't full of food when I make calls at the table.

 

[ktran]

Of course it does. They’re wearing masks. Dealer says he heard fold, so it’s no stretch to believe the other player heard fold, too.

Yeah in that scenario where the villain heard fold, the hero spoke up about it. If he had the AJss why wouldn't he be open minded about it? If villain had AJss wouldn't he be incline to hear what the hero says and consider that he might have made a hearing error or at least claim he might heard it wrong? And if it's a friendly game, he would have been reasonable and gave him the opportunity of correcting a mistake.

 

[bergs]

My thought at the time was “the entire table heard me say call and I tabled my hand, and his hand is irretrievable and he never tabled it so I’m probably getting the pot”.

Two other things passed through my mind: 1) I could easily lose this too, floors are notoriously fickle, and 2) the good vibe in this game is gonna be gone now. The game was pretty good and I was up half a buyin at that point.

I offered to chop the pot without calling the floor. Told if he wanted to call the floor that was fine too but if I won I was giving him back half.

He thought about it for a sec and accepted and we chopped it up.

I wouldn’t have done that 3-4 years ago when I played NLHE more frequently but this felt like a home game with the meetup aspect.

Table was pretty great after that too. Really not sure what the floor would’ve done, would’ve been interesting.

Moral of the story is that playing in masks sucks from a poker perspective, and yeah, throw a chip in with your action. Dealer was upset he hadn’t asked me to clarify action but it gets very loud in there on Thursday nights.

 

[bergs]

Is it Pokerface Ash? If so, I like her...solid player and decent videos.

-put in a calling chip next time. Leave no doubt....especially when wearing a mask.

My guess is the floor would come over and ask where the guy's cards are....if he cannot show them and you still have cards, it's your pot.

Also, bet the turn.

Yeah it was Ash. I didn’t get a chance to talk to her much - our end of the table was having a good time telling stories and busting balls. She plays well and I like her videos as she climbs the NL ranks from 1/2 on up.

 

[Josh Kifer]

And quit having your mouth full when calling action at the table.

Fooking pasta everywhere.....

 

[Highli99]

I like how you resolved that. Very creative and I think giving consideration to game dynamics is winning the game within the game. Way more profitable than a single pot.

 

[bergs]

And quit having your mouth full when calling action at the table.

Fooking pasta everywhere.....

My mouth was full of icy cold Bud Light drafts. But not in this hand.