Forum Auctions in the Classifieds Section (2 Viewers)

[Tommy]

The classifieds section guidelines can be referenced here:
http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/pcf-classified-section-info-and-guidelines-please-read.928/

It currently states:

• When placing ads (especially 'For Sale' ads), please do not post a link to another site. (ex: eBay, craigslist, etc.) Your ad should contain all the details here. (ex: price, photos, condition, shipping, payment info, etc.) If you just want to tell us about your ad on eBay or Craigslist, please use the eBay/Craigslist Links section.

Should we have or not have forum auctions in the classifieds forum? Discuss it here.

 

[tigon]

I don't know if this is one of the concerns, but I would think that any shill bidders or other collusion would be sniffed out by the community. Any suspicions of foul play (within the forum at least) could be investigated by admins. Not to say that should be an additional responsibility for admins, but still.

 

[stocky]

I see no issue with auctions in the forums here. If anything it would be more transparent than eBay auctions IMO.

 

[stocky]

Also is there a way to add an auction function for classifieds?

 

[Tommy]

Also is there a way to add an auction function for classifieds?

As in a set of guidelines or software?

I misread that. (tired) No, I already checked and there is no add-on software available.

 

[Mr. Cheese]

I think the auction needs to have a definite end date and time. Auctions are about placing your best bid. If you can't be on when the auction ends you need to have put your best offer out there.

I've bought cars and items at auctions and they don't extend auctions to the next day or even a few hours just because someone can't be present etc.

My .02

 

[Psypher1000]

I don't know that I have any problems with allowing auctions here. I don't really like them at all, but my personal preferences shouldn't hold the community back if that's what they want to do.

 

[slisk250]

I don't know that I have any problems with allowing auctions here. I don't really like them at all, but my personal preferences shouldn't hold the community back if that's what they want to do.

Agreed - I do think that putting auctions here is a cake and eat it too situation. The seller wants top dollar without paying any fees at all. Where else in the real world is this available to any sellers? How an auction ends can lead to some frustration for members. Part of me feels like members should use eBay if they want to go that route but it's no big deal to me. I just won't participate in auctions with a set deadline to the minute. I'd be staying up in the middle of the night just to lose it with the slow internet connection. Been there, done that. I'd rather sleep and set my best price with ezsniper.

 

[Tommy]

If you can't be on when the auction ends you need to have put your best offer out there.

That's one of the problems with having an auction on a forum. It's not fair to the buyer. Automatic bids are not placed on behalf of the bidder. (like eBay does)

 

[Tommy]

 

[BGinGA]

Should we have or not have forum auctions in the classifieds forum?

That's one of the problems with having an auction on a forum. It's not fair to the buyer. Automatic bids are not placed on behalf of the bidder.

I just won't participate in auctions with a set deadline to the minute.

I posted this elsewhere, but including it here as pertinent to the discussion:

"If I were to list chips in an auction format here, it would have a specified end date/time with the provision that the auction would remain open for exactly 1 hour past the latest posted bid (anti-sniping measure)."

This approach also gives people a chance to compensate for the "no-automatic-bids" issue and connection problems.

I'm not a big fan of auctions in general, but do understand the value they have -- not only to the seller (generally higher selling prices), but also to the buyer who isn't glued to their laptop/phone 100% all day. Conventional auctions open items up to all buyers, not just those who were 'lucky' or 'diligent' enough to be on point at the exact time an item was offered for sale. I'd rather lose an item in an auction (to somebody who placed a higher value on it than me) vs losing an item because I was working/sleeping/eating/screwing/pick-an-activity instead of having my eyes glued to a screen waiting for the deal-of-the-century to appear. Who has time for that?

It can be argued that auctions are a fairer way to sell goods (although arguably not as cheaply), and it can also be argued that conventional auctions favor deep-pocketed buyers (arguably making them unfair).

Silent/secret auctions are another auction type that theoretically should bring the best price, without the over-inflation that can be caused by bidding wars: submit your best bid, and hope it's high enough. Although these can be misused, I think they are a better option than conventional "bidding war" auctions.

For high-demand items, I've often thought the fairest way to sell them is to offer the item at a specified price, but not sell it to the first ad response. Instead, collect the names of all those interested in purchasing the item at the given price (over a specified period of time), and then hold a lottery to determine who the buyer would be. All interested parties have an equal chance to buy, buyers with deeper pockets have no advantage, and the seller gets what he considers a fair and acceptable price for the item. Win-win.

 

[<°)))><)]

For high-demand items, I've often thought the fairest way to sell them is to offer the item at a specified price, but not sell it to the first ad response. Instead, collect the names of all those interested in purchasing the item at the given price (over a specified period of time), and then hold a lottery to determine who the buyer would be. All interested parties have an equal chance to buy, buyers with deeper pockets have no advantage, and the seller gets what he considers a fair and acceptable price for the item. Win-win.

100% with this.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I agree that gluing myself to a screen all day is bad, especially for our overseas counterparts. How about a paddle style bidding?

• Day 1: announce the auction, and the starting price. Banter ensues about the item for a few days giving everyone a chance to catch the auction.
• Day 3: Auction begins. Interested parties declare in.
• Day 4+: Seller raises price, bidders declare in or out. Repeat until there is 1 bidder left.

This takes longer I suspect, but it eliminates sniping and allows buyers to live their life - not staying up until 4am because someone on the other side of the world is involved.

 

[Gear]

I'm intrigued by this, because to me the term "auction" evokes that whole "going, going, gone" thing, which is most definitely NOT present on eBay. I have maintained for year that eBay is not an "auction" site -- they offer timed sales, more akin to musical chairs than a real auction. Whoever has the highest bid when the music stops, wins. Hence sniping is the most effective way to win, because it's playing by the actual rules, not by what everyone thinks the rules are.

What I would love to see is a true auction format, similar to what has been described already, but a hybrid of each.

1. Post an item for sale, with a starting bid and a stated end time, e.g. 3 days from now, a week, whatever. Lots of time for everyone interested to be aware.
2. Accept bids during that time, following standard bidding practice (must be at least a given increment higher, etc.)
3. Once the stated time has elapsed, no new bidders are accepted, but the remaining bidders all have a chance to continue bidding until a winner is determined.

e.g. hypothetical example
On Wednesday I post 100 dice chips with starting bid of $1, and an open bidding period to end Friday at noon.

Wednesday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $3.
Thursday 5 pm, liftapint bids $5.
Friday 9 am, bergs bids $6.
Friday 10 am, BGinGA bids $7.
Friday 11 am, bergs bids $8.

Friday noon, the current high bid is $8 by bergs. BGinGA and liftapint have to respond with a higher bid or a "No" before the auction can end.

Friday 1 pm, jbutler bids $100. Even though bidding is still going on between BGinGA, liftapint, and bergs, jbutler's bid is ineligible because it was made after the initial bidding period.

Friday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $9.
Friday 3 pm, liftapint says no.
Friday 4 pm, bergs says no, and BGinGA is declared the winner at $9.


This is basically how it works in live auctions, but making allowances for the fact that we can't all be online at the same time. When you picture an auctioneer at the end of an auction, he is repeating the highest bid, looking at the other previous bidders to ask them if they want to bid again. When they all say no, the auction is declared over and the high bidder wins. (Technically a new bidder could enter at that point, but that's just unfair to do online.)

Probably this is basically the same as Poker Zombie's method, but allows the bidders to increase the price rather than waiting for the seller to do it.

 

[detroitdad]

I'm intrigued by this, because to me the term "auction" evokes that whole "going, going, gone" thing, which is most definitely NOT present on eBay. I have maintained for year that eBay is not an "auction" site -- they offer timed sales, more akin to musical chairs than a real auction. Whoever has the highest bid when the music stops, wins. Hence sniping is the most effective way to win, because it's playing by the actual rules, not by what everyone thinks the rules are.

What I would love to see is a true auction format, similar to what has been described already, but a hybrid of each.

1. Post an item for sale, with a starting bid and a stated end time, e.g. 3 days from now, a week, whatever. Lots of time for everyone interested to be aware.
2. Accept bids during that time, following standard bidding practice (must be at least a given increment higher, etc.)
3. Once the stated time has elapsed, no new bidders are accepted, but the remaining bidders all have a chance to continue bidding until a winner is determined.

e.g. hypothetical example
On Wednesday I post 100 dice chips with starting bid of $1, and an open bidding period to end Friday at noon.

Wednesday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $3.
Thursday 5 pm, liftapint bids $5.
Friday 9 am, bergs bids $6.
Friday 10 am, BGinGA bids $7.
Friday 11 am, bergs bids $8.

Friday noon, the current high bid is $8 by bergs. BGinGA and liftapint have to respond with a higher bid or a "No" before the auction can end.

Friday 1 pm, jbutler bids $100. Even though bidding is still going on between BGinGA, liftapint, and bergs, jbutler's bid is ineligible because it was made after the initial bidding period.

Friday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $9.
Friday 3 pm, liftapint says no.
Friday 4 pm, bergs says no, and BGinGA is declared the winner at $9.


This is basically how it works in live auctions, but making allowances for the fact that we can't all be online at the same time. When you picture an auctioneer at the end of an auction, he is repeating the highest bid, looking at the other previous bidders to ask them if they want to bid again. When they all say no, the auction is declared over and the high bidder wins. (Technically a new bidder could enter at that point, but that's just unfair to do online.)

Probably this is basically the same as Poker Zombie's method, but allows the bidders to increase the price rather than waiting for the seller to do it.

I really like this idea.

 

[bentax1978]

I'm intrigued by this, because to me the term "auction" evokes that whole "going, going, gone" thing, which is most definitely NOT present on eBay. I have maintained for year that eBay is not an "auction" site -- they offer timed sales, more akin to musical chairs than a real auction. Whoever has the highest bid when the music stops, wins. Hence sniping is the most effective way to win, because it's playing by the actual rules, not by what everyone thinks the rules are.

I wish more people would read the above in regards to eBay, which is hardly a traditional auction in the sense that most people think about auctions. A traditional auction does not have a defined end time, it ends when one person is not willing to exceed the bid of the high bidder.

eBay "auctions" are modified from this format, and as a result the most effective way to win the "auction" is to put your bid in at the last possible moment. I can think of only a few circumstances where I would consider putting in a bid on eBay before the last 5 seconds (for example, if there were a buy-it-now option I wanted to remove by placing a bid early). eBay makes the rules, it only makes sense (as a buyer) to do what's in your best interest within those rules.

 

[Nbk]

BGinGA is declared the winner at $9

So now BGinGA has to pay !

Agreed 100% with Gear and Bentax excepted that the remaining bidders shoud have a limited period of time to finish the process.
And with the admin autorisation i will whange my auction to this kind of terms, as i received private offers on the tourney set and no bid on the auction, i think people are in the sniping mode.

 

[detroitdad]

I'm intrigued by this, because to me the term "auction" evokes that whole "going, going, gone" thing, which is most definitely NOT present on eBay. I have maintained for year that eBay is not an "auction" site -- they offer timed sales, more akin to musical chairs than a real auction. Whoever has the highest bid when the music stops, wins. Hence sniping is the most effective way to win, because it's playing by the actual rules, not by what everyone thinks the rules are.

What I would love to see is a true auction format, similar to what has been described already, but a hybrid of each.

1. Post an item for sale, with a starting bid and a stated end time, e.g. 3 days from now, a week, whatever. Lots of time for everyone interested to be aware.
2. Accept bids during that time, following standard bidding practice (must be at least a given increment higher, etc.)
3. Once the stated time has elapsed, no new bidders are accepted, but the remaining bidders all have a chance to continue bidding until a winner is determined.

e.g. hypothetical example
On Wednesday I post 100 dice chips with starting bid of $1, and an open bidding period to end Friday at noon.

Wednesday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $3.
Thursday 5 pm, liftapint bids $5.
Friday 9 am, bergs bids $6.
Friday 10 am, BGinGA bids $7.
Friday 11 am, bergs bids $8.

Friday noon, the current high bid is $8 by bergs. BGinGA and liftapint have to respond with a higher bid or a "No" before the auction can end.

Friday 1 pm, jbutler bids $100. Even though bidding is still going on between BGinGA, liftapint, and bergs, jbutler's bid is ineligible because it was made after the initial bidding period.

Friday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $9.
Friday 3 pm, liftapint says no.
Friday 4 pm, bergs says no, and BGinGA is declared the winner at $9.


This is basically how it works in live auctions, but making allowances for the fact that we can't all be online at the same time. When you picture an auctioneer at the end of an auction, he is repeating the highest bid, looking at the other previous bidders to ask them if they want to bid again. When they all say no, the auction is declared over and the high bidder wins. (Technically a new bidder could enter at that point, but that's just unfair to do online.)

Probably this is basically the same as Poker Zombie's method, but allows the bidders to increase the price rather than waiting for the seller to do it.

This just seems more fun to me. I know that isn't the purpose of selling chips. Hell, I think the next set I sell I'm going to use this method. Heck, I might even change my zombies sales thread to reflect this type of online PCF auction

 

[Nbk]

Maybe eBay would want to buy the concept from PCF and we are all millionaires !

 

[catalyzeme]

I think it's a bad idea for both buyer and seller but I don't have a problem with it existing. I just won't participate.

 

[manamongkids]

I'm intrigued by this, because to me the term "auction" evokes that whole "going, going, gone" thing, which is most definitely NOT present on eBay. I have maintained for year that eBay is not an "auction" site -- they offer timed sales, more akin to musical chairs than a real auction. Whoever has the highest bid when the music stops, wins. Hence sniping is the most effective way to win, because it's playing by the actual rules, not by what everyone thinks the rules are.

What I would love to see is a true auction format, similar to what has been described already, but a hybrid of each.

1. Post an item for sale, with a starting bid and a stated end time, e.g. 3 days from now, a week, whatever. Lots of time for everyone interested to be aware.
2. Accept bids during that time, following standard bidding practice (must be at least a given increment higher, etc.)
3. Once the stated time has elapsed, no new bidders are accepted, but the remaining bidders all have a chance to continue bidding until a winner is determined.

e.g. hypothetical example
On Wednesday I post 100 dice chips with starting bid of $1, and an open bidding period to end Friday at noon.

Wednesday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $3.
Thursday 5 pm, liftapint bids $5.
Friday 9 am, bergs bids $6.
Friday 10 am, BGinGA bids $7.
Friday 11 am, bergs bids $8.

Friday noon, the current high bid is $8 by bergs. BGinGA and liftapint have to respond with a higher bid or a "No" before the auction can end.

Friday 1 pm, jbutler bids $100. Even though bidding is still going on between BGinGA, liftapint, and bergs, jbutler's bid is ineligible because it was made after the initial bidding period.

Friday 2 pm, BGinGA bids $9.
Friday 3 pm, liftapint says no.
Friday 4 pm, bergs says no, and BGinGA is declared the winner at $9.


This is basically how it works in live auctions, but making allowances for the fact that we can't all be online at the same time. When you picture an auctioneer at the end of an auction, he is repeating the highest bid, looking at the other previous bidders to ask them if they want to bid again. When they all say no, the auction is declared over and the high bidder wins. (Technically a new bidder could enter at that point, but that's just unfair to do online.)

Probably this is basically the same as Poker Zombie's method, but allows the bidders to increase the price rather than waiting for the seller to do it.

Also helps that our Forum has timestamps for everything, so you can easily see when things are taking place

 

[detroitdad]

I think it's a bad idea for both buyer and seller but I don't have a problem with it existing. I just won't participate.

Just curious as to why?

I can see why it could be frowned upon for the buyer. As the buyer, you know this going in. Of course, I usually miss shit. Maybe there is a negative or two that I don't see.

Thanks,

 

[liftapint]

Well, one negative to the seller is that the format could turn people off. I will admit, if the mint TRK rounders had popped up as a FOR SALE classified for a fixed price of $3/chip, I very likely would have bought at least 500 (more likely 1000) immediately. The minty TRK goodness would have been too much for me to resist.

But as we have gone along, the "process" this has taken has completely turned me off, and I will not be bidding on these. So one negative is that you can lose potential buyers...like me.

 

[Nbk]

As the seller i can say one thing.
I received many offers between $3 and $3.5 (which makes me happy) but how do i chose to who i sell, the first one, the famous one, the louder one?
My first option was the bigger boobs but i finally went to auction not to chose.

 

[catalyzeme]

Just curious as to why?

I can see why it could be frowned upon for the buyer. As the buyer, you know this going in. Of course, I usually miss shit. Maybe there is a negative or two that I don't see.

Thanks,

If I was selling on eBay I definitely wouldn't want my bidders to be able to PM each other. Plus the feedback system here is probably not enough to deter people from non-payment if they change their mind. There's not much stopping someone from trying to bump up the price of a chip and then flaking if they accidentally win. Might be hard to purchase from other forum members, but I think it pales in comparison to hurting your eBay feedback history.

Mostly the potential collusion though. I would be less concerned with the feedback. I don't even think colluding would really be wrong or should be disallowed somehow. Soft playing someone is only against the rules at the poker table.

 

[Gear]

...the remaining bidders should have a limited period of time to finish the process.

Yes, good point.

As the seller i can say one thing.
I received many offers between $3 and $3.5 (which makes me happy) but how do i chose to who i sell, the first one, the famous one, the louder one?
My first option was the bigger boobs but i finally went to auction not to chose.

Hmm, didn't work as intended. Skip to 3:50 to get to the point.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Well, sure, If Nbk offered minty TRKs at a fraction of their value, they would have been snapped up instantly. That's why he came to PCF in the first place - to learn what they were worth. It would have been wrong - VERY, VERY WRONG to suggest he could get $3 per chip when the actual value is much greater, and then pick them up for a song, fleecing the guy when he approached us for help.

More than once it has been stated, the value of a chip or a set is what the buyer is willing to pay. The only way to get the true value is via auction. Straight up sales are fine if you don't want to wait of course. The recent labels removed ASM's are a good sign of that as I was about to place an offer at the same time BGinGA was placing an offer. I don't know what BG's top price would have been, but my value-o-meter was putting them at $700 or so.

As for eBay vs PCF reputation - I'd be much more concerned about my PCF rep. I've met these people, and many are my friends. I am far less likely to do anything nefarious to a friend than I am to an unknown.

Unless bluffing is nefarious.
Also unlikely to be nefarious to an unknown.
How many times can you use "nefarious" in a paragraph?

 

[trever]

A dutch auction could work pretty well in a forum format. Seller lists their items and their starting price (high) and if they don't sell out, they drop the price down by an increment by replying to their own thread.

For the buyer, you can either buy (first come first served) by replying to the thread or wait for a drop and hope someone else doesn't swoop in an steal them from you.

Ideally seller would publish the schedule and increments in the op.

For example, 500 blue dice chips, mint condition. $1/Chip. Price to be dropped by $.05 daily at 9am EST.

 

[liftapint]

Here is what I think would be a fun auction.

Since just about everybody would want a different breakdown of chips in their set, how about auction off the opportunity to "shop" first -- the person who bids the highest amount PER CHIP gets to build a set to their own specifications, and the per-chip price that won the bidding.

You could even put some restrictions (upfront) on what the winning bidder could buy. For example:
a) winning bidder must buy at least 500 chips
b) must purchase full barrel quantities
c) If you buy 1000s, you must either buy all of them, or half of them.
d) If you buy the quarters, you must also buy 300 x $1s at least
e) I'm totally making up these rules, you could have any rules you want.

Of course, there are so many ways that this could go wrong. And this is a terrible idea. But I do think it would be a very fun auction to watch

 

[12thMan]

A dutch auction could work pretty well in a forum format. Seller lists their items and their starting price (high) and if they don't sell out, they drop the price down by an increment by replying to their own thread.

Shout out @Bordizzle , he has done a few sales like this! Lol I think remember he got a little shit for doing it this way in the beginning, but I think people like it after they see how it goes.

The only problem with that way is though it comes back to the whole you have to be willing to pay the price BUT also need to be online when the price you want hits and hope you are quicker than the other guy who wants it at the same price.

I see the benefits of both ways, a sale price or some sort of auction, but I know as a buyer it tilts me much more to know I missed out on something I would have snap called for because I didn't happen to be checking the forum at that time as opposed to someone out bidding me and losing it because I'm a cheap ass. On the other hand I'm perfectly fine with it when I'm first to reply "i'll take it" when it's a good deal.... Weird how that works, huh?