Bad ultrasonic cleaning experience - need help (2 Viewers)

[Raphmivey]

So I had my first experience trying to clean chips with a US tonight and I am so disappointed.

Thought I would clean 1000 chips but I did about 2 racks without much success. I ve been following the procedure here the best I can: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/ultrasonic-chip-cleaning.1691/

I had difficulty at the beginning getting 40c and above temperature but then that was solved putting more hot water (keeping the same water/tsp ratio).

I have a 6L vevor and putting 8 cups total water seemed very low. Chips are not even fully submerged. Is that normal? I added more water (again keeping the same water/tsp ratio).

This is the tsp I used: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/t-s-p--trisodium-phosphate-concentrate-liquid-3-78-l/1000546950
comments?

I cleaned the majestic star 5s. I started with 1 minute, then another, then another and so on until I stopped at 5min thinking its already way too much... but results were bad so I thoughr I had to continue.

If you can please help trying to find what Im doing wrong. I ll answer to all questions obviously.
Since a picture is worth a thousand words here are a few of my setup and results.

Thx!

 

[shorticus]

From my own experience I’ll have to ask. Did you turn the machine on?

That’s pretty much how mine looked when I pulled them out with the machine off.

 

[Raphmivey]

yes I did ahah I confirm I was hearing the zizi noise as written in the user guide

 

[Raphmivey]

and both leds ON were lid (temp and time)...I took the picture in between two attemps so yeah it looks like the transducers were not running but yes they were, during rhe attempts

 

[Raphmivey]

I forgot to give info on the rotation speed. I tried 1/2 turn every second as in the procedure but that s very fast no? anyways I did it... then experiment again with different speeds since results were bad...

 

[BearMetal]

I have the same machine. You definitely have to put 12 cups of water in otherwise the transducers can't reach their full effects. But did you also wait and degas the water? I normally turn my machine on and then walk away for about 45 minutes. That gives it time to actually heat the water up and then to de-gas the water.

I found that anything more than 45 seconds to a minute really dries the chips out. But it makes them ridiculously clean. So something else must be up with this machine or your cleaner

 

[Ethan]

I have the same machine. You definitely have to put 12 cups of water in otherwise the transducers can't reach their full effects. But did you also wait and degas the water? I normally turn my machine on and then walk away for about 45 minutes. That gives it time to actually heat the water up and then to de-gas the water.

I found that anything more than 45 seconds to a minute really dries the chips out. But it makes them ridiculously clean. So something else must be up with this machine or your cleaner

This.

 

[Budha]

You definitely have to put 12 cups of water in otherwise the transducers can't reach their full effects.

This is helpful. I have the same machine and I didn’t get great results the first time i used it as well. I know I used significantly less then 12 cups, that could be it!

Thanks - I’ll try that next time!

 

[Josh Kifer]

Yup. Not enough liquid.

 

[JoeyMack]

I have the same machine also, and I follow @ski_ex5 ’s instructions to the letter and have never had a problem when it comes to cleaning chips. The only thing I do different is I double the recipe otherwise the levels will be too low. And usually when I double the amount of heated water it always puts my ultrasonic at or close to you the target temperature of 40°C. So that is 12 cups of room temp water plus 4 cups of hot water for a total of 16 cups of water. Depending on the griminess of the chip I usually go 1 two 1 1/2 minutes. if you do all this and still get the same results, then it has to be the TSP you’re using. I use the Lundmark "TSP" sodium metasilicate and it works awesome.

Warning to all do not use this cleaning method on TRK chips. It dries them out horribly and the water can leak into and stain the paper labels. It sucks, but TRK need to be cleaned by hand.

 

[JoeyMack]

From my own experience I’ll have to ask. Did you turn the machine on?

That’s pretty much how mine looked when I pulled them out with the machine off.

Did this my first time cleaning used HSI 1s. Thought “I don’t need to use the timer on the machine, I’ll just use the timer on my phone.“ I was puzzled why I still had to do some scrubbing once I pulled them out.

 

[Budha]

I have the same machine also, and I follow @ski_ex5 ’s instructions to the letter and have never had a problem when it comes to cleaning chips. The only thing I do different is I double the recipe otherwise the levels will be too low. And usually when I double the amount of heated water it always puts my ultrasonic at or close to you the target temperature of 40°C. So that is 12 cups of room temp water plus 4 cups of hot water for a total of 16 cups of water. Depending on the griminess of the chip I usually go 1 two 1 1/2 minutes. if you do all this and still get the same results, then it has to be the TSP you’re using. I use the Lundmark "TSP" sodium metasilicate and it works awesome.

Warning to all do not use this cleaning method on TRK chips. It dries them out horribly and the water can leak into and stain the paper labels. It sucks, but TRK need to be cleaned by hand.

Yup - I followed Ski’s process as well, except doubling the amount of water/tsp - lol.

I learned something today

 

[JoeyMack]

Yup - I followed Ski’s process as well, except doubling the amount of water/tsp - lol.

I learned something today

That’s the only part you don’t follow.

Yeah it’s a lot of water and TSP but I have cleaned 1700 chips in one sitting with a double batch. I will usually wait until I have upwards of eight racks to clean before I even consider breaking out the ultrasonic.

 

[RainmanTrail]

They need to be submereged deeper than your pics show. Add more water. Also, I don't know about that TSP, but the Lundmark TSP powder works great.

 

[Budha]

That’s the only part you don’t follow.

Yeah it’s a lot of water and TSP but I have cleaned 1700 chips in one sitting with a double batch. I will usually wait until I have upwards of eight racks to clean before I even consider breaking out the ultrasonic.

Lol - welll. I didn’t use the salad spinner thing either

I just used a wooden spoon.

 

[allforcharity]

12 cups water. Distilled if you can, unless you have particularly excellent water quality in your area.

I use metasilicates instead of regular TSP. I rotate spinner once every 10 seconds.

 

[JoeyMack]

Lol - welll. I didn’t use the salad spinner thing either

I just used a wooden spoon.

Definitely get the salad spinner before your next go round. Keeps the chips moving which is key.

12 cups water. Distilled if you can, unless you have particularly excellent water quality in your area.

I use metasilicates instead of regular TSP. I rotate spinner once every 10 seconds.

It works when rotating only once every 10 seconds? I keep my salad spinner moving nonstop…

 

[allforcharity]

It works when rotating only once every 10 seconds? I keep my salad spinner moving nonstop…

I used to do continuous motion, then I tried once every 6 seconds, and now once every 10. I didn't notice a difference, although truth be told I've been cleaning less dirty chips lately.

 

[Moxie Mike]

@Raphmivey
Don't give up yet bro. I didn't get great results my first time either.

I suspect your issue is either not enough water, not enough tsp (unlikely), too many chips in the US at once or some combo thereof. You didn't say if you were using distilled water or not - but that matters too.

Here's how I use mine. Do with this what you will:

I have the same US. I usually use 1/2 gallon of distilled water in the US. I warm the water up in a microwave for 3-4 mins before putting it in the unit to save time.

Then I turn the US on and set it to 44* C... if it's not already at that temp from the microwave I let the US bring it the rest of the way up. Usually takes about 10 mins. Then I add the TSP.

Then I use the basket it came with. I put 40-50 chips at a time in the basket and make sure the chips are completely submerged. I stir the chips continuously using a paint stick for 1-2 mins depending on how dirty they are to begin with.

 

[liftapint]

Salad spinner+zip ties = big fun

 

[Moxie Mike]

Salad spinner+zip ties = big fun

That always seemed really ambitious and excessive. I've done just fine with the basket it comes with and manual stirring... I've never understood what there was to gain with the additional MacGuyvering.

 

[philhut]

I have had great results in the Ultrasonic using ~20-40 chips strait in the metal rack of the 6L unit. I put the temp at 42celcius with tap water, ample dish soap (i buy palmolive) and approx 2-3 table spoons of course salt. I ran the chips below for 45 seconds then while leaving the rest in the water I scrubbed each chip with a childs toothbrush (adult is fine) and then wiped the edge and side with a old wet sock. Then ran the chips for ~30 seconds more and rised with water for these results. Also for thick "gunk" a wooden toothpick helps. I do not know why anyone would use anything else except maybe a cleaning sponge on white chips. I have also used this method for cleaning THC chips with hot stamps and the stamps were preserved without issue.

 

[philhut]

I forgot to give info on the rotation speed. I tried 1/2 turn every second as in the procedure but that s very fast no? anyways I did it... then experiment again with different speeds since results were bad...

follow the steps I placed above your chips should clean up perfectly looking at the pictures with "my method" ie the lazy home ingredients without chemicals and it appears we have the same or very similar ultrasonic machines. All of the grime loosens on the first shake, then when scrubbed are loosened more and the fine cycle clears out the remainder. The Ultrasonic will not remove the gunk without some manual work loosening the grime that is loosened by the machine. kind of like washing dirty windows, water will clear most of the dirt but physical movement of the dirt with a close/etc is the only way to remove the dirt stuck on the glass.

also I noticed on THC chips cycling longer than 3 mins resulted with a small amount of red debris dust deposit on the bottom of the tray from red chips that I tried to cycle clean on my first use. Cycle, scrub, cycle rinse is all I so now with less than 2mins total cycle time for all but the most filthy chips.... perhaps the worst of the worst should be prewashed if needed before the U/S. Also I highly recommend using course salt or some type of salt to create a hypertonic solution that will also have some abrasive qualities to help draw out the grime and separate it from the chip material.

 

[CHP TD]

theres aloton this subject the only thing i have to add is five minutes is a LONG time for a 100 watt cleaner. i have stripped the colour off my chips in 6 mins. The batch i put in for 6 mins are are much lighter. i also was using sodium methiscellatate. the meth* word is spelt wrong. but still 5 mins is wayyyyyy tooo long.

 

[Raphmivey]

@Raphmivey
Don't give up yet bro. I didn't get great results my first time either.

I suspect your issue is either not enough water, not enough tsp (unlikely), too many chips in the US at once or some combo thereof. You didn't say if you were using distilled water or not - but that matters too.

Here's how I use mine. Do with this what you will:

I have the same US. I usually use 1/2 gallon of distilled water in the US. I warm the water up in a microwave for 3-4 mins before putting it in the unit to save time.

Then I turn the US on and set it to 44* C... if it's not already at that temp from the microwave I let the US bring it the rest of the way up. Usually takes about 10 mins. Then I add the TSP.

Then I use the basket it came with. I put 40-50 chips at a time in the basket and make sure the chips are completely submerged. I stir the chips continuously using a paint stick for 1-2 mins depending on how dirty they are to begin with.

thx! yes I use distilled water.

right from the start ot was obvious to me that there was not enough water so I added 4 cups for a total of 12 cups of water. From my picture you guys still think there was not enough liquid?

 

[Raphmivey]

theres aloton this subject the only thing i have to add is five minutes is a LONG time for a 100 watt cleaner. i have stripped the colour off my chips in 6 mins. The batch i put in for 6 mins are are much lighter. i also was using sodium methiscellatate. the meth* word is spelt wrong. but still 5 mins is wayyyyyy tooo long.

I know! what do you do when you are discouraged?

 

[Raphmivey]

I have the same machine. You definitely have to put 12 cups of water in otherwise the transducers can't reach their full effects. But did you also wait and degas the water? I normally turn my machine on and then walk away for about 45 minutes. That gives it time to actually heat the water up and then to de-gas the water.

I found that anything more than 45 seconds to a minute really dries the chips out. But it makes them ridiculously clean. So something else must be up with this machine or your cleaner

ok so even if the temperature is good I should wait to de-gas the water?
how is the water going to de-gas? thx

 

[Raphmivey]

follow the steps I placed above your chips should clean up perfectly looking at the pictures with "my method" ie the lazy home ingredients without chemicals and it appears we have the same or very similar ultrasonic machines. All of the grime loosens on the first shake, then when scrubbed are loosened more and the fine cycle clears out the remainder. The Ultrasonic will not remove the gunk without some manual work loosening the grime that is loosened by the machine. kind of like washing dirty windows, water will clear most of the dirt but physical movement of the dirt with a close/etc is the only way to remove the dirt stuck on the glass.

also I noticed on THC chips cycling longer than 3 mins resulted with a small amount of red debris dust deposit on the bottom of the tray from red chips that I tried to cycle clean on my first use. Cycle, scrub, cycle rinse is all I so now with less than 2mins total cycle time for all but the most filthy chips.... perhaps the worst of the worst should be prewashed if needed before the U/S. Also I highly recommend using course salt or some type of salt to create a hypertonic solution that will also have some abrasive qualities to help draw out the grime and separate it from the chip material.

I like that but isnt the purpose of having a US not to scrub the donkey out of the chips?

 

[BearMetal]

ok so even if the temperature is good I should wait to de-gas the water?
how is the water going to de-gas? thx

You degas the water by running the machine. Just turn it on and give it 30+ minutes. By the time that your water is coming the temperature, it's also been degassed

 

[Raphmivey]

You degas the water by running the machine. Just turn it on and give it 30+ minutes. By the time that your water is coming the temperature, it's also been degassed

just to confirm, by running themachine youmean the transducers? not the heat only