Tourney WSOP tournament series ideas (1 Viewer)

DoubleEagle

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In the event of a big win, all league participants will be responsible for their fair share of taxes.
This is extremely important to have a plan in advance if anyone wines over $5,000. We had this happen about 10 years ago in our WSOP league. The player that cashed got bad advice from his tax person and wound up eating some extra taxes. I strongly suggest you have a plan in place to cover this issue if it comes up. I am sure there must be a CPA on the forum to give good advice. My understanding is the winning player may be able send each member of the group a W-2G in order to transfer those tax liabilities to each group member. An itemized 1040 may be required to claim the deductions which could also be a problem for some members of the group. Just work this all out in advance. Money changes people.

Good luck! I would be in in a heartbeat if I was local.
 

DaneWoj

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Possible $1500 WSOP buy-in events in Las Vegas:

June 5-6 - Millionaire Maker
June 12-13 - Monster Stack

If any PCF players in the Tampa Bay area would like to participate, please send me a PM. @Anthony Martino @Schmendr1ck @ni9n3r

We used to always do $1500 events. But due to these 2 weekends being the only $1500 events we are probably doing $1000 buy in double stack. Almost the same as monster but allows for more ppl to play from our league.
 

Poker Zombie

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We used to always do $1500 events. But due to these 2 weekends being the only $1500 events we are probably doing $1000 buy in double stack. Almost the same as monster but allows for more ppl to play from our league.
The full schedule isn't out yet - there may still be more $1500 events to come.
 

bsdunbar1

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We have done this same thing the last 2 years and I strongly agree with holding the individual game payouts until the later games. Both years when people are really far back in the standings, and there isn't anything to play for, the attendance suffers.
In the first several events everyone has something to play for.
 

k9dr

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Hopefully the end of season freeroll which requires full participation in all events will entice people to play.
 

Frogzilla

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Hopefully the end of season freeroll which requires full participation in all events will entice people to play.
What’s the plan if one of the tournaments doesn’t fill up though? Free roll winner only gets $2450 or $2400?
 

k9dr

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What’s the plan if one of the tournaments doesn’t fill up though? Free roll winner only gets $2450 or $2400?

Nice catch :tup: The first $500 of each tourney goes toward the end of season freeroll.
 

OHWebs

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You should be sending a player to Vegas with the best chance to win, not somebody who can merely outlast half of the field -- and your chosen points system should reflect that.

I really dislike a linear points distribution (10-to-1 for 10 players, etc.) because a) it doesn't adequately reward above-average performance, and b) it tends to promote tight/timid play throughout the event, since each jump on the point scale is equal to all others. In addition, many logarithmic systems fail to properly balance the awarded points across top combined finishes (often rewarding two 2nd-place finishes over a 1st and a 3rd, for example).

Although I've long been a proponent for only awarding points to the top 30% of the field size, I have no issue with awarding token points to the balance of the field, although differentiating between two low(er) finishes is not really necessary or even logical imo. In reality, token points very rarely affect the top three or four finishing point standings, but they do provide a positive psychological impact for players.

There are two point systems I generally recommend for a 10-player league with a fixed 10-game schedule:
  • 10-6-3-1 for the top four players (zero for all other finishes) -- this system rewards above-average performance, with significant points awarded only to the top 30% of the field size. Maximum score = 100, minimum score = 0, average winning score = 35-40 points.
  • 16-11-7-4-2-2-2-1-1-1 (zero for no-shows) -- this system also rewards above-average performance (significant points awarded to the top 40% of the field size), while still providing token points for non-stellar or below-average finishes. Maximum score = 160, minimum score = 10, average winning score = 55-65 points.
Most leagues using either system will typically be won by a player with three wins, or occasionally by two wins combined with two or more other top-4 finishes. Most seasons finish with at least two or three players having a chance to win going into the final event, and often several with a chance to break into the top two places. And more importantly, a player with five or more finishes in 3rd-to-5th place will never finish first overall using this system (as it should be, imo), unlike many more linear-type systems. If necessary, point ties in either system are broken by 1) # of wins, 2) # of 2nd-place finishes, and finally 3) # of 3rd-place finishes.


The same points schedule is used regardless of field size (within a narrow range), although for the first system, I never award points to 50% of the field (so an 8-player field would not award points to 4th place, only to 1st-3rd).

Reviving this thread, as I'm about to venture into running my own WSOP league. :cool
I agree with the point structure that @BGinGA mentions here - awarding above average performance throughout the season.

The issue I'm dealing with is that my group wants to have a "Main Event" (would be our 12th out of 12 event) to determine the 2 people that we would send to the WSOP.
They feel that by awarding points and having a tiered starting stack based on point totals earned throughout the season would keep those in the bottom 5 still interesting in playing in the events at the end.

How do I accommodate this but still incorporate sending the best performing people throughout the year?
Seems counter-intuitive, right?

I'm worried about someone playing at the bottom all year, and then somehow luck box their way to a top 2 finish (against the odds, I know) in the final game.
I know "It's Poker", but just seems backwards to me in this scenario.


OHW
 

Poker Zombie

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Reviving this thread, as I'm about to venture into running my own WSOP league. :cool
I agree with the point structure that @BGinGA mentions here - awarding above average performance throughout the season.

The issue I'm dealing with is that my group wants to have a "Main Event" (would be our 12th out of 12 event) to determine the 2 people that we would send to the WSOP.
They feel that by awarding points and having a tiered starting stack based on point totals earned throughout the season would keep those in the bottom 5 still interesting in playing in the events at the end.

How do I accommodate this but still incorporate sending the best performing people throughout the year?
Seems counter-intuitive, right?

I'm worried about someone playing at the bottom all year, and then somehow luck box their way to a top 2 finish (against the odds, I know) in the final game.
I know "It's Poker", but just seems backwards to me in this scenario.


OHW
Are your two WSOP qualifiers playing for the group (i.e. all players get a share if they cash) or just playing for themselves, on the group's dime?

It is an important distinction for any WSOP league, and how the points should be earned.
 

OHWebs

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The 2 players that win are considered staked by the rest of group.
The staking percentage has not been determined yet, but a couple options have been submitted. 80/20 is most popular right now.
 

Marius L

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Reviving this thread, as I'm about to venture into running my own WSOP league. :cool
I agree with the point structure that @BGinGA mentions here - awarding above average performance throughout the season.

The issue I'm dealing with is that my group wants to have a "Main Event" (would be our 12th out of 12 event) to determine the 2 people that we would send to the WSOP.
They feel that by awarding points and having a tiered starting stack based on point totals earned throughout the season would keep those in the bottom 5 still interesting in playing in the events at the end.

How do I accommodate this but still incorporate sending the best performing people throughout the year?
Seems counter-intuitive, right?

I'm worried about someone playing at the bottom all year, and then somehow luck box their way to a top 2 finish (against the odds, I know) in the final game.
I know "It's Poker", but just seems backwards to me in this scenario.


OHW

You could give the highest overall point finisher a seat to the woop, and do a "main event" tournament with chips based on points for the other seat?
 

Poker Zombie

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The 2 players that win are considered staked by the rest of group.
The staking percentage has not been determined yet, but a couple options have been submitted. 80/20 is most popular right now.
As long as the winning players are playing for the group, it is in the best interest of everyone involved to send the most consistent winning player - i.e. the one that had the greatest amount in winnings over the season.

Going with your 80/20 scenario, if the they cash in the WSOP, they keep 80% (and probably pay the taxes themselves) while the 20% goes to the group (under the table). However, that 20% is divided amongst all players, with each keeping 1 share for every event they bought in. So with 12 events a player gets 12 shares. the guy that missed a couple gets 10 shares. One and done? A single share. That creates incentive to keep returning, even when you can't win the championship -because you are backing the best of your team.
 

OHWebs

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You could give the highest overall point finisher a seat to the woop, and do a "main event" tournament with chips based on points for the other seat?
I like that idea! Top point earner for the season gets 1 seat, then the winner of the final event gets the 2nd seat.
If the top point earner wins the final event, then the 2nd place finisher gets the seat.

As long as the winning players are playing for the group, it is in the best interest of everyone involved to send the most consistent winning player - i.e. the one that had the greatest amount in winnings over the season.

Going with your 80/20 scenario, if the they cash in the WSOP, they keep 80% (and probably pay the taxes themselves) while the 20% goes to the group (under the table). However, that 20% is divided amongst all players, with each keeping 1 share for every event they bought in. So with 12 events a player gets 12 shares. the guy that missed a couple gets 10 shares. One and done? A single share. That creates incentive to keep returning, even when you can't win the championship -because you are backing the best of your team.

Agreed.

We are working on doing a league "agreement" or a contract signed by each player, stating that they are bound and committing to the total cost of the league. IF they bail at end because they are down on points, then they are still on the hook for payment.

I think we would do the staking payouts after taxes are taken out, so based on NET earnings. I do like the idea of earning shares based on number of events played. That gives extra incentive to not miss any events.
 

Poker Zombie

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I think we would do the staking payouts after taxes are taken out, so based on NET earnings. I do like the idea of earning shares based on number of events played. That gives extra incentive to not miss any events.
I may be mistaken, but I don't think the WSOP "withholds" for taxes. They will file you info with the IRS (when over a certain threshold). The player is then expected to file their winnings with their taxes.

Basically, you won't know what the NET earnings is until tax time - and even then, the NET will vary depending on the winner - who should be saving all records of gambling losses to offset the winnings.
 

Dodger

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For those that are running these leagues to earn WSOP entries, are your league tournaments set up to mimic the potential WSOP event(s) that would be entered? Starting stacks, blind levels, etc.
 

Poker Zombie

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For those that are running these leagues to earn WSOP entries, are your league tournaments set up to mimic the potential WSOP event(s) that would be entered? Starting stacks, blind levels, etc.
You do realize that for a 10 player group, mimicking the Main Event's structure would mean 2 hour levels, and T60,000 in starting chips. The conclusion likely occurring around level 22, or after 44 hours of play?
 

Senzrock

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I may be mistaken, but I don't think the WSOP "withholds" for taxes. They will file you info with the IRS (when over a certain threshold). The player is then expected to file their winnings with their taxes.

Basically, you won't know what the NET earnings is until tax time - and even then, the NET will vary depending on the winner - who should be saving all records of gambling losses to offset the winnings.
This is correct (and very important). This is a related tangent but I had a buddy win a "$15k seat" at the Borgata a few years ago and it wasn't until the following tax season that he found out that the casino filed paperwork stating that he basically won $15,000 from them. Now he just took the seat, played the tournament, and busted out. No money was kept. This saga dragged on for several years as he tried to challenge/navigate it. It was a hot mess.
 

Dodger

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You do realize that for a 10 player group, mimicking the Main Event's structure would mean 2 hour levels, and T60,000 in starting chips. The conclusion likely occurring around level 22, or after 44 hours of play?

Yes! Obviously, player pool size and total chip counts would be very different. I was not suggesting running an identical structure or if anyone was. Rather, is there a way to mimic some aspects of these WSOP events to give players an idea of what they may face? Just curious if there was a way to do it.
 

Poker Zombie

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Yes! Obviously, player pool size and total chip counts would be very different. I was not suggesting running an identical structure or if anyone was. Rather, is there a way to mimic some aspects of these WSOP events to give players an idea of what they may face? Just curious if there was a way to do it.
I think that is the tough part. The biggest difference between the WSOP and a home game is the amount of time you have to play. It's not a long evening of poker, it's a multi-day grind. It's maintaining focus, getting proper sleep, eating right, hydrating... all stuff that would take a very dedicated group of players if you really wanted to get an idea of what you might face.

The next biggest hurdle I perceived were the big swings for the fence players. There will be players, who even for $10,000 will jam with :ac::qc: to try to double up early or get into another event. This gives them some "bad beat" cushion without investing a ton of time. For many of them, it's first or nothing for the Main Event. That's really hard to replicate at home.
 

BGinGA

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Late to the thread revival party, but here goes:

Reviving this thread, as I'm about to venture into running my own WSOP league. :cool
I agree with the point structure that @BGinGA mentions here - awarding above average performance throughout the season.

The issue I'm dealing with is that my group wants to have a "Main Event" (would be our 12th out of 12 event) to determine the 2 people that we would send to the WSOP.
They feel that by awarding points and having a tiered starting stack based on point totals earned throughout the season would keep those in the bottom 5 still interesting in playing in the events at the end.

How do I accommodate this but still incorporate sending the best performing people throughout the year?
Seems counter-intuitive, right?

I'm worried about someone playing at the bottom all year, and then somehow luck box their way to a top 2 finish (against the odds, I know) in the final game.
I know "It's Poker", but just seems backwards to me in this scenario.


OHW
In your case, I would either send the top two league finishers, or the top league finisher plus the 'main event' winner.

But I would limit participation in that main event field, and stagger the starting stack sizes. At most, I would limit it to the top 8 players (or just the top six, if you only have a single-table league). By limiting the ME to qualified players, you eliminate the possibility of a bottom-dweller getting one-time lucky and depriving a much better player from earning a Vegas trip (which is in everybody's long-term interest).

Stagger the stack sizes based on league performance (aka points scored, plus a bonus for wins), but be forewarned that if the event is deep enough, staggered stacks will not have a major impact on who wins, only on who doesn't win -- usually the winner will come from the top 50% of the field, but the big starting chip-leader is far from guaranteed a victory (or even a top-two cash). In a very deep event, the short-stacks will be at a significant disadvantage, but good players with mid-range stacks still have a legitimate shot at victory.

I would also make that 'main event' a much deeper -- and much longer -- tournament than the 12 league events. Structure your staggered stacks such that the "average" stack size is at least twice the league events starting stack, and structure the blinds/times so that the ME lasts two to three times longer than the length of a typical league event.

Hit me up via pm if you want help setting any of it up. Although we don't send anybody to the WSOP, we do run a season-ending Championship event for qualified players (using the guidelines above). Every league season has a Season Champion and Championship Final winner.
 
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