Tourney WSOP tournament series ideas

k9dr

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I want to run a WSOP tournament qualifying series with the ultimate goal of sending the top two players to play in a $1500 WSOP event including an extra $1000 for travel and hotel expenses. Total value of the prize package would be $2500 for each player.

Buy in for the tournament series would be $500. This would completely fund the prize packages and ideally prevent people from dropping out late in the series. Each monthly tournament would also have a $100 buy in and pay out the top 3 finishers split 50:30:20.

You would accumulate points for your order of finish in each tournament. For example, first place gets 10 points, second place 9 points, down to 1 point for last place. The two players with the most points at the end of the season win the WSOP prize packages.

You also accumulate .83% share points for each monthly tournament you play in up to a maximum of 5% for the series. Then if our WSOP qualifiers cash in the tourney, you share that percentage of the prize money. If all 10 players each play every monthly tournament, and our WSOP qualifier wins $100,000, he would get $55,000 and the other 9 players would get $5,000 each. Any taxes would be the individual responsibility of each player.

You don't necessarily have to play every month, but your odds of winning are better if you do. You also get a higher percentage of the WSOP prize money if you do. All prizes are based on adequate participation.

Please let me know if you have any ideas for improvement.

Questions:

1) How do you deal with the points if some tournaments have less than 10 players.

2) How do you insure that the winner must play a WSOP event
 

DaneWoj

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We have done a league for WSOP for last 7 years. This year we will have almost 10 ppl playing.

PMing our rules and structure to you.

We insure ppl play WSOP by going as a group to Vegas and we pay ppl at the registration cage.
 

Frogzilla

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I’m in a similar local league. For your questions:

#1 The league you buy in each week regardless of whether you can come. You are allowed to get a sub. If you no show and you don’t have a sub you get 10th.

#2 It should be clear upfront...other than that just honor system? Obviously you will want to know what event and get stack updates and chip porn throughout...this is the freaking WSOP and we’re in thus together! WSOP also records all finishers so you can audit if there is suspicion. Our league also allows option of substituting a $1700 WSOP circuit main event which adds flexibility
 

Frogzilla

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Also you didnt ask, but one thing some leagues do that works well...payout less in the first few tournaments where everyone is in contention, and payout more in the later ones when some people have been eliminated from the season prize. For example, instead of paying out $1000 each month, payout only $800 for 3 months, $1000 for 4 months, and $1200 for last 3.
 

Eloe2000

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Interested and following. We are just about to complete our first tournament series. It was small stakes turbo every 2 weeks 10 event total series to see how we liked it which we played before our cash games. It has been a big hit and will up the game for the next series. We just raked one buy-in from each game which goes toward the $500 buy-in for a small WPT satellite event. But now that we realize it’s a hit and everyone likes it and what we need to change we are going to up the stakes for the next series.

1. We used a pretty progressive point system which accounted for the number of players (1st got 2x#players, 2nd got 1.5x#players, 3rd got 1x#players etc) I actually don’t like. We are going to use the log scale system for the next series that I found here: http://ceemeck.org/BARGETrivia/crunchy-points-and-the-best-all-around-player-baap.html#formula

2. We are going to make the tournament a group outting
 

k9dr

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@k9dr Is it transferable? What if the winner cannot attend/enter the tourney?

I would propose non transferable.

Maybe if the winner absolutely can’t go, the prize package goes to the next highest finisher. Or maybe he loses the travel expenses and must pay out 5% of the $1500 tourney buy-in to each player.
 
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k9dr

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How about this - $500 buy in for 6 tournaments which funds the 1st and 2nd place prize packages. $100 monthly buy in for 5 tournaments of which $50 is raked from each entry to fund the end of season freeroll for an additional tourney package. The other $500 is split 60:40 for first and second place each month. Total investment 1K with a 3 out of 10 chance to win.
 

k9dr

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I like this point system from @Moxie Mike - it seems simple and fair:

As a point of reference, we use the 25,18,13,9,6,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1... system. All participants get at least one point.
 

Moxie Mike

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I want to run a WSOP tournament qualifying series with the ultimate goal of sending the top two players to play in a $1500 WSOP event including an extra $1000 for travel and hotel expenses. Total value of the prize package would be $2500 for each player.

Is this something you're doing on P*s?

I would suggest increasing the prize to at least $3k. $1000 for travel, hotel and general expenses is only moderately adequate in many circumstances.

Buy in for the tournament series would be $500. This would completely fund the prize packages and ideally prevent people from dropping out late in the series. Each monthly tournament would also have a $100 buy in and pay out the top 3 finishers split 50:30:20.

So are you discussing monthly tournaments with a $500 buyin - with $100 of that serving to fund a prize pool for immediate payout, with the additional $400 going to the WSOP package?


You also accumulate .83% share points for each monthly tournament you play in up to a maximum of 5% for the series. Then if our WSOP qualifiers cash in the tourney, you share that percentage of the prize money.

Sorry but this is a non-starter for me. Winning a standard satellite doesn't come with the other participants having a piece of your winnings.

If all 10 players each play every monthly tournament, and our WSOP qualifier wins $100,000, he would get $55,000 and the other 9 players would get $5,000 each. Any taxes would be the individual responsibility of each player.

Sorry but this is a non-starter for me. Winning a standard satellite doesn't come with the other participants having a piece of your winnings. Maybe I wouldn't mind a small piece, but there's no way in hell I'm giving up 45% equity.

Questions:

1) How do you deal with the points if some tournaments have less than 10 players.

2) How do you insure that the winner must play a WSOP event

1) You're already aware of my system... which is fine even when we start with less than a full table. The biggest thing is that any system you deploy should reward wins and runner-up finishes the highest.

2) You will get more participation if playing the WSOP event is optional. This is subject to varying opinions so do what you want with that - but for me, I would prefer a cash prize.
 

k9dr

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No, not on P* this is a local league tournament.

The initial $500 is the buy-in into the league. Each monthly tourney is an additional $100 of which $50 is raked to pay for the freeroll tourney.

I think if I try to increase the prize package to 3K it may become too expensive for some of my players. I am already concerned about the initial $500 payment.

I see what you mean about giving up 45% equity - I was using that to encourage participation. I think the end of season freeroll will do that adequately.

I still think the winners should play in a WSOP event - that is the purpose of the league, but I will leave it open for discussion.
 

DaneWoj

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I would propose non transferable.

Maybe if the winner absolutely can’t go, the prize package goes to the next highest finisher. Or maybe he loses the travel expenses and must pay out 5% of the $1500 tourney buy-in to each player.
The series is structured to send ppl to go to Vegas. Stick to your guns and make sure ppl know what they are playing for.
 

DoubleEagle

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We are doing one with nine players. $500 upfront fee. Giving out three $1,500 WSOP buy-ins. No travel expenses. It was understood up front the whole group would go to the WSOP and rail the winners. Winnings will be split 60% to the group and 40% to the player. Taxes are the responsibility of the winner and it is expected each member will get a W2G from the winner if winnings exceed $5,000.

We also play for $50 each week split 50/30/20.
 

DaneWoj

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We are doing one with nine players. $500 upfront fee. Giving out threev$1,500 WSOP buy-ins. No travel expenses. It was understood up front the whole group would go to the WSOP and rail the winners. Winnings will be split 60% to the group and 40% to the player. Taxes are the responsibility of the winner and it is expected each member will get a W2G from the winner if winnings exceed $5,000
I like it. We’ve learned the KISS system is best. Also have all details in writing.
 

Moxie Mike

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No, not on P* this is a local league tournament.

The initial $500 is the buy-in into the league. Each monthly tourney is an additional $100 of which $50 is raked to pay for the freeroll tourney.

I think if I try to increase the prize package to 3K it may become too expensive for some of my players. I am already concerned about the initial $500 payment.

I see what you mean about giving up 45% equity - I was using that to encourage participation. I think the end of season freeroll will do that adequately.

I still think the winners should play in a WSOP event - that is the purpose of the league, but I will leave it open for discussion.

OK to fund 2, $3000 prize packages you need to collect $6k. With 10 participants and assuming a Jan-May season you'd have: ($500*10)+((100*10*5)*.5)=$7500 to work with. With 8 players you'd have $6000 to work with.

The bigger challenge to your idea in my estimation is that you're asking players to pony up $750 to satellite into a tournament that only costs $1500 to get into. Personally, I'd much rather fire several bullets in regular sattys than play in a league.

Best of luck.
 

DaneWoj

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OK to fund 2, $3000 prize packages you need to collect $6k. With 10 participants and assuming a Jan-May season you'd have: ($500*10)+((100*10*5)*.5)=$7500 to work with. With 8 players you'd have $6000 to work with.

The bigger challenge to your idea in my estimation is that you're asking players to pony up $750 to satellite into a tournament that only costs $1500 to get into. Personally, I'd much rather fire several bullets in regular sattys than play in a league.

Best of luck.
We have an online mixed game series that we are running from October to May. It was $200 (we have 8 of us) and we are splitting it 1000/400/200. We just love the bragging right for 8 months long. Always depends on the group you have. For us it works.
 

k9dr

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That’s why I was trying to keep the expenses as low as possible, but still attractive enough to gamble on. Even after the 1K investment, the winners will likely be paying much less as they will be winning some of the monthly prize pool.
 

k9dr

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I think I am going to require full attendance, or at least full monthly payment, to qualify for the freeroll.
 
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I think @Seeking Alpha Social Club has a league with a setup similar to what you are looking to implement.
Yes sir. We send 1 player to the main event each year. @k9dr we overcame the questions you have by limiting the tournament to 10 committed, trustworthy, players. Here are the basics:
  • Limited to 10 players because we needed people that are 100% committed, trustworthy, and willing to sign a contract.
  • 12 games, once a month for 12 months
  • $150 per game
  • Payout: $550 is paid out to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd each month
  • $950 goes to the bank (me and another one of the players set up a bank account just for this purpose)
  • All 10 players have a 1/10th stake in the player that plays in the main event.
  • Points: We simply assign points based on your monthly finish (e.g., 10 points for 1st, 9 for 2nd, etc.). Points a cumulative through the 12 game series, and the player with the most points plays in the main event.
  • We accumulate $11,400 over 12 months. $10k is used for the buy-in and $1400 for expenses
  • Winnings? The player is added to the bank account each year, and if there are winnings (which there have not been yet), then they are deposited into the bank account and then redistributed evenly to the 10 players.
  • Everybody has to pay the $150 each month, and has to make every effort they can to play, even if they're not in the hunt.
  • Players can get up to 3 substitutes if they cannot make it
This is our 7th year doing it and it has worked great so far. I played in a similar tournament that one of my buddies put together, and it was a shit show because he was not selective about the people he invited to play. A couple of them just stopped showing up half way through the season when they were out of the hunt.

Good luck!
 

wonderpuddle

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I’m running a WSOP league this year. $275 entry fee with 13 players. League fees will fund entry fees to three $1500 and under tourneys, plus a little spending cash (a $1500 entry to first, $1000 entry to second and $500 entry to third). We live in SoCal, so the cost of getting to Vegas is minimal (and thus spending money is also low). We will also allow players to play in an equivalent local tourney if a WSOP event won’t work for them.

Our three winners will own 75% of themselves in the event that they win the entry in. The remaining league members split the other 25%.

We started late, so we are playing 8 events this season, with the lowest score dropped. That allows each player to miss an event if they can’t make it and still be in the race. Each event has a separate entry fee, which funds payouts for that particular event.

Our points are roughly based on what payouts would be if you paid 13 places in a tournament, with modifications for bounty tourneys (each knockout is worth a point) and for the season ending main event (which has 25% more points available to keep more people alive until the end). Here’s our structure:
B66F892F-E307-4459-9B36-377162B0ECEB.jpeg


If less than 13 people show, points are not altered. In other words, if only seven show to a non-bounty tourney, the first out would get 5 points. No shows get zero.

So far, it seems to be a hit. We are only two events deep, but it’s been fun so far. I’d like to get the number of players up to 16 next year to fund four WSOP seats, and increase the number of events to 12, with two drops.

As for ensuring people actually play, I don’t anticipate it will be a problem, as these guys are all excited about the possibility of playing in the WSOP. But I think we’ll just require players to text a photo of the entry receipt.
 

BGinGA

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You would accumulate points for your order of finish in each tournament. For example, first place gets 10 points, second place 9 points, down to 1 point for last place. The two players with the most points at the end of the season win the WSOP prize packages.

Please let me know if you have any ideas for improvement.
You should be sending a player to Vegas with the best chance to win, not somebody who can merely outlast half of the field -- and your chosen points system should reflect that.

I really dislike a linear points distribution (10-to-1 for 10 players, etc.) because a) it doesn't adequately reward above-average performance, and b) it tends to promote tight/timid play throughout the event, since each jump on the point scale is equal to all others. In addition, many logarithmic systems fail to properly balance the awarded points across top combined finishes (often rewarding two 2nd-place finishes over a 1st and a 3rd, for example).

Although I've long been a proponent for only awarding points to the top 30% of the field size, I have no issue with awarding token points to the balance of the field, although differentiating between two low(er) finishes is not really necessary or even logical imo. In reality, token points very rarely affect the top three or four finishing point standings, but they do provide a positive psychological impact for players.

There are two point systems I generally recommend for a 10-player league with a fixed 10-game schedule:
  • 10-6-3-1 for the top four players (zero for all other finishes) -- this system rewards above-average performance, with significant points awarded only to the top 30% of the field size. Maximum score = 100, minimum score = 0, average winning score = 35-40 points.
  • 16-11-7-4-2-2-2-1-1-1 (zero for no-shows) -- this system also rewards above-average performance (significant points awarded to the top 40% of the field size), while still providing token points for non-stellar or below-average finishes. Maximum score = 160, minimum score = 10, average winning score = 55-65 points.
Most leagues using either system will typically be won by a player with three wins, or occasionally by two wins combined with two or more other top-4 finishes. Most seasons finish with at least two or three players having a chance to win going into the final event, and often several with a chance to break into the top two places. And more importantly, a player with five or more finishes in 3rd-to-5th place will never finish first overall using this system (as it should be, imo), unlike many more linear-type systems. If necessary, point ties in either system are broken by 1) # of wins, 2) # of 2nd-place finishes, and finally 3) # of 3rd-place finishes.

How do you deal with the points if some tournaments have less than 10 players.
The same points schedule is used regardless of field size (within a narrow range), although for the first system, I never award points to 50% of the field (so an 8-player field would not award points to 4th place, only to 1st-3rd).
 

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Mark this day/topic - I agree with @BGinGA .

Point systems confer a lot of different things to a league. Participation, competition, best player overall. Tweaking the points will tune in the points to just whatever you want to reward.

In this case, you want to send the player with the best hope for cashing/victory in the WSOP. Since the WSOP only pays 15% of it's field, you should award points only top finishers. Ideally, top 15%, with the points weighted in the same way the WSOP weights their payouts. A system like this would benefit from more events to weed out variance, but would give the group their best chance for the best possible WSOP cash.
 

k9dr

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Here is the final format I decided upon:

Happy New Year gentleman !!

I would like to start a series of 6 monthly tournaments with the ultimate goal of sending 3 players to play in a $1500 event at the 2020 World Series of Poker this summer including $1000 for travel expenses.

Initial buy-in for the tournament series would be $500 and would need to be paid in advance. With 10 players, this would completely fund 2 prize packages of $2500 each. The first 5 monthly tournaments would also each have a $100 buy-in with half of the money going to fund the third tournament prize package and the other half paid out to the top 3 finishers each month split $250:$150:$100.

The third prize package of $2500 will be awarded to the winner of the 6th and final tournament. In order to qualify for this freeroll, you must have played in all 5 of the other tournaments. There is no entry fee for the 6th tournament, but you must have met all qualifications to play.

Points are awarded for your order of finish in each tournament:

1st place = 16 points
2nd place = 11 points
3rd place = 7 points
4th place = 4 points
5th-7th place = 2 points
8th-10th place = 1 point
No show = zero points

In the event of a tie, the player with the highest number of 1st place finishes will win. If still tied, the highest number of 2nd place finishes, followed by the highest number of 3rd place finishes.

The 2 players with the highest end of season point totals from all 6 tournaments will each win a WSOP prize package. The winner of the final freeroll tournament will also win a WSOP prize package. A player is only eligible to win one prize package. If either the 1st or 2nd place finisher also wins the final freeroll tournament, the prize package will be awarded to the player with the next highest season point total.

WSOP prize package winners must attend the WSOP and play in a $1500 buy-in event. Each league participant who played every league event owns a stake of each winning player equal to 3% of any winnings. That means each prize package winner retains 73% of their winnings with the remaining 27% divided equally between the other 9 qualifying league participants. In the event of a big win, all league participants will be responsible for their fair share of taxes.

In the event that a prize package winner is unable to play in the 2020 WSOP, the prize package will be awarded to the next highest finisher. Therefore, if you are unlikely to be able to make the trip to Las Vegas in June, you may not want to play in this league. I am looking for 10 committed players who are willing to wager a total of $1000 for a 3 out of 10 chance to play in the WSOP.

Tournaments will be scheduled once or twice a month on either Friday or Saturday evening. Please let me know if you would like to participate and if you have any suggestions. I would like to start this within the next few weeks.

Possible $1500 WSOP buy-in events in Las Vegas:

June 5-6 - Millionaire Maker
June 12-13 - Monster Stack

If any PCF players in the Tampa Bay area would like to participate, please send me a PM. @Anthony Martino @Schmendr1ck @ni9n3r
 
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