Why has faded spade always felt like a con? Maybe I just hate marketing. (1 Viewer)

[upNdown]

It didn’t feel appropriate to address this in the 3.0 release thread, so here we are.
I should say at the outset that I’ve never handled faded spades as far as I know. I only buy cards at the top of the flexiness scale, and everything I’ve read about faded spade suggests they’re not that. So I don’t know much about their product.

But faded spade has always felt like this to me: a couple of hustling type guys decided maybe they could hustle this industry. Because you don’t need to create a better product, you just need to attract the most attention. So, create a product that stands out a bit, and market the hell out of it, and profit. Because we’re all dummies. If you put a different looking card in a cool looking box, get some of the biggest high stakes streams to use them and then do some social media marketing (don’t even need to break the baank there - how much do you have to spend on marketing to leave KEM, Copag, Modiano and bicycle in the dust) we’ll buy them.
And from everything I’ve read, the 1.0 release was a pretty significantly flawed product. But that wasn’t a big setback for them, because the product didn’t matter, they were just selling the brand. So they made some tweaks to the 2.0 and again to the 3.0 - who cares - they can tweak it the whole nine yards and it doesn’t affect the product at all, because the product actually IS the brand. Keep the brand exiting and visible and people will keep buying. Doesn’t really matter how good or how bad they feel, because you’ve got FADED SPADE with the cool weird face cards like they’re using on the Hustler stream and High Stakes Poker.

Anyway, I’m curious to see what other people think. I can’t imagine I’m alone on this take, but I don’t feel like I’ve seen it discussed much, if at all. And with all the attention the 3.0 release got (the most excitement I’ve seen here over cards, outside of a desjgn release) it seems like the right time to bring it up.

 

[allforcharity]

I don't know why they put out the 2.0 and 3.0 as they already had declared 1.0 PERFECT and you can't improve on perfection. But you must always offer something new or else you're viewed as obsolete.

I played one night with the 1.0 and I think it should stay with the auto shufflers. They were not pleasant in my hand.

 

[TheWhat]

Weird, I love them. The 2.0 were a bit slick for our group's liking, and I think the company heard that and has looked to improve. Isn't that the way it should be? I was initially on them for their 4 color decks, as there isn't an abundance of them out there.

And yeah their artwork, at least with the PIPs and Faces is much better than a large swath of decks. I'd like a bit more Desjgn or KEM style on the outside, but nothing is perfect.

 

[upNdown]

Weird, I love them. The 2.0 were a bit slick for our group's liking, and I think the company heard that and has looked to improve. Isn't that the way it should be? I was initially on them for their 4 color decks, as there isn't an abundance of them out there.

And yeah their artwork, at least with the PIPs and Faces is much better than a large swath of decks. I'd like a bit more Desjgn or KEM style on the outside, but nothing is perfect.

Card taste is so subjective. I’m not saying they’re bad cards. I’m just shouting at the clouds about marketing, because I’m grumpy. If you like them, that’s a win for you.
I’ll say this in their favor - the only reason I paid attention to this release is because they offer bridge jumbo, which seems increasingly rare at the moment. So good for them for offering us variety.

 

[Highli99]

I haven’t been following the 3.0 thread because I was so disappointed in 1.0 and 2.0. A couple months ago I had a player complaining about KEMs being “too flimsy” . In an act of defiant appeasement I broke out a 2.0 deck and he was very pleased with the stiffness. And then one orbit later one of the aces literally peeled apart. Wtf. Off to the trash with that setup and I wrote off the brand.

Fast forward to last weekend and @krafticus had a setup of the new 3.0 and the deck was great. I actually enjoyed them, and I certainly wasn’t expecting to. Go figure. I’m not in a hurry to buy any, but I’m glad to see they improved. I think the fact they are iterating is much better than sticking their head in the sand and pretending the flawed product was in fact perfect. Actions speak louder than words, and marketing isn’t immoral per se. People are smart.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

2 words: Shuffle Tech.

 

[Cheroczech]

I like the 3.0 — no experience with Faded Spade before so I came in with a blank slate. Stiffer than Copags. Much stiffer than Kems. I like the variety. I like the design too.

 

[upNdown]

marketing isn’t immoral per se.

Okay

People are smart.

Hmm

 

[upNdown]

2 words: Shuffle Tech.

Oh hell yes. Now I can rant about multiples things without feeling guilty for derailing.
I’ve played two games with a shuffle tech in the past couple of months.
Those things work great.
Those things are loud as hell.
I don’t believe they save any time vs a two deck, shuffle ahead or behind plan, in a self dealt game.

If you have players who really can’t shuffle, or if you have a dedicated dealer, sure, definitely go for it.
If you just love gadgets (and I do) go for it if you want, but just realize that you’re probably not saving time, and oh yeah, that thing is loud!

 

[buffalojim]

I think they try to make a good product and have responded to the criticisms regarding their cards, hence the different versions. I take that as a positive. You just either like them, or you don't. I haven't had any issues with their cards so far or their customer service.

Tell you what, I have an opened but unused pack of purple and greens bridge. I'll send them to you to try. If you like them, you can pay me for them, if you don't, send em back. You can't lose.

 

[AH77]

I mean that goes for pretty much every product so I don’t know if scam is the right word per se. If you slap a brand logo on a plain white t-shirt, the price jumps 3x so the same phenomenon is at play here.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Who’s Faded Spade?

 

[buffalojim]

I don't get into the hype surrounding the brand. I like the design, the font, size, all that. Many people here like the Desjgn cards, I'm just not a fan really, especialoy when the faces wear rather quickly. I just try something and then make my decision.

 

[upNdown]

I think they try to make a good product and have responded to the criticisms regarding their cards, hence the different versions. I take that as a positive. You just either like them, or you don't. I haven't had any issues with their cards so far or their customer service.

Tell you what, I have an opened but unused pack of purple and greens bridge. I'll send them to you to try. If you like them, you can pay me for them, if you don't, send em back. You can't lose.

I appreciate that offer. But I’m at a point in my life where standard modianos are the minimum I’ll do for flexiness and even those are too slippery. So if you honestly think the faded spades fit in that silly-narrow window, I’ll give you my address. But I’m thinking we’d be wasting our time.

 

[buffalojim]

I appreciate that offer. But I’m at a point in my life where standard modianos are the minimum I’ll do for flexiness and even those are too slippery. So if you honestly think the faded spades fit in that silly-narrow window, I’ll give you my address. But I’m thinking we’d be wasting our time.

Probably, but if you change your mind, you know where I am

 

[timinater]

And then one orbit later one of the aces literally peeled apart.

Fatal flaw.

I loved the feel, the art and the sizing of the index. I was really happy with them and then a card chipped. I sent an email to CS and they quickly mailed me one. While I was waiting I noticed that same thing. Its two layers adhered together. WTF? A while later the card arrives and in the course of play a card gets pitched into a chip or something and another card chipped/tore at the corner. Emailed CS a few times and never heard back. Threw them in the garbage and might need to torture test a card before I even consider them again. KEM & Copag is all I’ll use.

 

[tabletalker7]

2 words: Shuffle Tech.

My shuffle tech hated the 2.0. Fournier is it's favorite

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Oh hell yes. Now I can rant about multiples things without feeling guilty for derailing.
I’ve played two games with a shuffle tech in the past couple of months.
Those things work great.
Those things are loud as hell.
I don’t believe they save any time vs a two deck, shuffle ahead or behind plan, in a self dealt game.

If you have players who really can’t shuffle, or if you have a dedicated dealer, sure, definitely go for it.
If you just love gadgets (and I do) go for it if you want, but just realize that you’re probably not saving time, and oh yeah, that thing is loud!

Dedicated dealer here! The hands per hour are significantly more & the sound? I've heard the complaints. My group actually talk, drink & have music on while they play so the sound is irrelevant if it's in a cart but I understand:

 

[upNdown]

Dedicated dealer here! The hands per hour are significantly more & the sound? I've heard the complaints. My group actually talk, drink & have music on while they play so the sound is irrelevant if it's in a cart but I understand:
View attachment 989912

Haha, I’m only a partial hater. I mean yeah I’m a hater but I agree that for a dedicated dealer, it’s the only way to go.

 

[bergs]

Ironically I’m studying for a product management certification ATM and stumbled on this thread.

If they consciously decided to introduce 1.0 with some flaws and get some buzz for their brand while they simultaneously worked on v2, that’s a perfectly valid product marketing strategy. You’re going to turn off some early adopters but you can overcome that with effective marketing and the impression of a quick release that fixes the flaws from the first release. They were successful in investing in promotions to create some buzz around their profit but if they hadn’t improved the product eventually it wouldn’t have mattered.

Also, FWIW, the other card manufacturers have been around for a long time and Faded Spade is trying something new with the stiffer cards.

I liked the 2.0s and I like the 3s a lot. My local casino just got rid of the 2.0s because they were fouling shuffling machines and went to Kems with the jumbo index - and it’s universally hated by everyone including dealers. It’s comical watching peope trying to look at 5 hole cards at Big O and the cards are apparently slick as hell.

I hope they try the 3.0s.

 

[natumes]

So I would say I had your same thoughts about the whole branding thing, even more so when I actually went to their site when the 3.0 thread popped up. I ordered a setup to see what the hype was about, and went 4 color to try that as well. Up to this point my favorite cards are Desjgn. I don't have the super flexy preference you do (I'm sure I haven't sampled nearly as many decks either).

I am pleasantly surprised with the cards. Haven't used them enough to say if I like them better than Desjgn which I've used for the last year and a half, but so far positive review. I don't know what 1.0 or 2.0 were like, but the 3.0 cards are great from a dealer perspective. Definitely stiffer than anything else I've used, but they still shuffle well, and they pitch very well. I think they are definitely looking to cater to shuffling machines but appeal to as wide of a customer base as possible at the same time. The marketing is definitely targeted towards a younger audience, and unfortunately hype is working for that audience (at least initially).

 

[RichMahogany]

So many things about Faded Spade turn me off. Their look, complaints about their 1.0 card stock, and the over exposure of their marketing campaigns are all a big NO for me.

Pre USPC Kem, Desjgn, Gemaco Superflex, Fournier, Cartamundi, Angel, Piatnik, Dal Negro, all great cards.

Even crappy Copag(which have improved recently) and those assholes at Modiano have solid products.

Will I try Faded Spade one day? Sure! Unless I have to buy them. With so many other viable options out there, Faded Spade cards just don’t rate, at all.

 

[Buge]

I agree with a few posters above. I love the look and feel of the faded spades as long as I don’t have to shuffle them. They are pretty stiff and more slippery than KEMs or Copags. If I had to hand shuffle them I probably would have just stuck with the KEMS.

 

[CUORE3]

The strong point of this company is their marketing. It is the only card brand that communicates with its target audience, poker players. As said, the product is not the best but it manages to sell it.

 

[BGinGA]

So many things about Faded Spade turn me off. Their look, complaints about their 1.0 card stock, and the over exposure of their marketing campaigns are all a big NO for me.

Pre USPC Kem, Desjgn, Gemaco Superflex, Fournier, Cartamundi, Angel, Piatnik, Dal Negro, all great cards.

Even crappy Copag(which have improved recently) and those assholes at Modiano have solid products.

Will I try Faded Spade one day? Sure! Unless I have to buy them. With so many other viable options out there, Faded Spade cards just don’t rate, at all.

Thanks for saving me the time to compose a (remarkably similar) response.

 

[Josh Kifer]

You hate everything tho.

 

[Lil Tuna]

So many things about Faded Spade turn me off. Their look, complaints about their 1.0 card stock, and the over exposure of their marketing campaigns are all a big NO for me.

Pre USPC Kem, Desjgn, Gemaco Superflex, Fournier, Cartamundi, Angel, Piatnik, Dal Negro, all great cards.

Even crappy Copag(which have improved recently) and those assholes at Modiano have solid products.

Will I try Faded Spade one day? Sure! Unless I have to buy them. With so many other viable options out there, Faded Spade cards just don’t rate, at all.

It just can’t be all that great!

 

[jr8719]

It didn’t feel appropriate to address this in the 3.0 release thread, so here we are.
I should say at the outset that I’ve never handled faded spades as far as I know. I only buy cards at the top of the flexiness scale, and everything I’ve read about faded spade suggests they’re not that. So I don’t know much about their product.

But faded spade has always felt like this to me: a couple of hustling type guys decided maybe they could hustle this industry. Because you don’t need to create a better product, you just need to attract the most attention. So, create a product that stands out a bit, and market the hell out of it, and profit. Because we’re all dummies. If you put a different looking card in a cool looking box, get some of the biggest high stakes streams to use them and then do some social media marketing (don’t even need to break the baank there - how much do you have to spend on marketing to leave KEM, Copag, Modiano and bicycle in the dust) we’ll buy them.
And from everything I’ve read, the 1.0 release was a pretty significantly flawed product. But that wasn’t a big setback for them, because the product didn’t matter, they were just selling the brand. So they made some tweaks to the 2.0 and again to the 3.0 - who cares - they can tweak it the whole nine yards and it doesn’t affect the product at all, because the product actually IS the brand. Keep the brand exiting and visible and people will keep buying. Doesn’t really matter how good or how bad they feel, because you’ve got FADED SPADE with the cool weird face cards like they’re using on the Hustler stream and High Stakes Poker.

Anyway, I’m curious to see what other people think. I can’t imagine I’m alone on this take, but I don’t feel like I’ve seen it discussed much, if at all. And with all the attention the 3.0 release got (the most excitement I’ve seen here over cards, outside of a desjgn release) it seems like the right time to bring it up.

To paraphrase this great Oasis ad...

... marketing doesn't work on you. Celebrate this fact with a deck of Faded Spade 3.0.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

a couple of hustling type guys decided maybe they could hustle this industry. Because you don’t need to create a better product, you just need to attract the most attention.

This isn't just Faded Spade - it's marketing 101, and it's been happening for centuries.

 

[Jake14mw]

I wouldn't call them a con, just heavy on marketing. Hey, it worked! They have made attractive cards that look good on TV. I love the artwork and the index, especially the size. It seems to me that their market is casinos that use automatic shufflers. The big problem most people have with them is the stiffness. That is only really an issue when you are shuffling them.

If they were concerned about the fact that most people who have to shuffle them think they are too stiff, they would have made the 3.0 more flexible. They didn't. The only changes they seem to have made is that they are whiter and have more texture on the face. I'm guessing casinos wanted them whiter so that they have more contrast, easier for dealers and security cameras. Also guessing that the additional texture is for automatic shufflers. Business wise, I'm sure the casinos are a much better business for them than individual sales.

So, as much as I wanted them to be good (I have a thing with PIP size), I'm done with them. My players don't like them either. I'll enjoy watching them on TV where they belong, coming out of the automatic shufflers.