Why are some hosts so damn stubborn, lol

Trihonda

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OK, so I'm just venting (feel free to ignore if you aren't interested).

I'm playing at a neighbors house tonight, and he's a regular to my game. He's a real nice guy, plays fairly solid poker, and I enjoy him coming over.

A while back (before I knew him well), I heard about his game being fun, and I scored an invite. He has an amazing game room and bar, and the people that played his game were a ton of fun. However, it was also one of the worst run tournaments I've ever seen. He had very little organization, and even had asked for my advice prior to the tournament (but didn't follow it). During the tournament, I had to pull an audible (at the hosts request) and started running the tournament anyways (once we had one table with 9 players and one with 5 players). I handled table rebalancing and acted as the TD when people had rule debates ensue. In the end, I was there for the company, the food, and the cash game. :)

I posted about this game a while back, and many other people that play both our games have agreed with me that the structure and organization suck! However, he only hosts once every 6 months, and they just like getting together with this particular group of guys, so they suck it up. I suppose I'm in that camp too...

When I discussed this with several of the players attending, they suggested I casually offer up to help with some of the logistics, payout sheets (mass confusion at his last game, where he deducted costs of food and drink from the prize pool, but wasn't sure how many players had actually played or how much the food cost, and had no idea what to give for payouts); and I offered tourney and cash chips all organized, (in lieu of his horrible starting stacks of dice chips-and no separate cash set).

....He "casually" declined my offer to help with tonight's game. Hrmmph! :(

When I play certain bar games, I'll bring the chips and help run the game (when I attend) and people really appreciate it. Why is he being so damn stubborn?

It's only a $35 tourney, and food and beverage costs are being deducted from that, so I'm coping by telling myself it's a $35 donation for food/hosting, and I'll just do like I did last time, the second the cash game is about to start, I'll donk off my dice chips to my favorite table-mate and go run the cash game (I'm bringing my damn cash chips anyway)! :)

end rant ;)

#lovetheguysandsetupbutnotthepokerz
 

slisk250

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Without gong into much detail, here is my take. His house, his rules. If he doesn't want to change it, so be it. Like you said, donk off the chips and enjoy the cash game. Have fun with a good group of guys

FWIW - I have a group that invites me when they need a player. It's dealers choice and they play games I'd only maybe find on the movie, Vegas Vacation. I hate dealers choice in this way, the stakes are low, guys are great. I never turn down the invite but also don't care if I get one. I go to grog and socialize.

Relax and enjoy the night. Let others help him if he asks again.
 

courage

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Agree with slisk, try to relax and have fun. As the FNG don't try to run everything.
 

ChaosRock

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I've been to some games which were run atrociously as well man...

I think you did a lot more than what I usually do... I never say a word unless I'm asked a specific question... Some people just take it personally and clam down, and I'm guessing that's what happened... Some people like suggestions, some people don't... In my mind, I always have two choices, attending the game or not attending the game... If the game is just unbearable, I'd just stay home... There's several reason I might enjoy a poker game and not always it's because of how well it's run...

The ONLY thing that's a non-starter for me is when there's angle-shooting in a structure/payout depending on how the host or friends are performing... Then I'll feel I'm the 'mark'... I don't think that's what is happening here when the host is messing up the payouts, right?

You just have to enjoy for what it is and if you don't, it's a good opportunity to tell your wife you decided to skip poker and stay home with her... You'd be buying a ton of equity with her for better games... ;)
 

jbutler

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This is basically how every game was pre poker boom. No one knew shit about rules or organization or anything. People were just there to socialize and gamble. Those games were more profitable too. Turns out it's better to play with people who are motivated by things other than the game structure and being profitable.

Cliff's: play, socialize, profit.
 

detroitdad

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I'm laughing my butt off here Bill... I remember you saying a few days ago you had gotten your poker fix for a good while... I guess your 'good while' is less than a week, huh? ;)

sounds about right, lol.

I wouldn't be able to play tonight anyways. Colleen is off tonight and wants some of this eye candy, and taking care of my boy today. He's got pneumonia.
 

slisk250

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Hey Bill, how would you handle Jonesing for poker if you were in Orlando, surrounded by in-laws, and no freedom to hunt down a game with the Florida crew. They all want to sit by the pool and go eat. I'm going crazy!
 

ChaosRock

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Hey Bill, how would you handle Jonesing for poker if you were in Orlando, surrounded by in-laws, and no freedom to hunt down a game with the Florida crew. They all want to sit by the pool and go eat. I'm going crazy!

Who would have thunk it!!! More games in S.A. than in the U.S., huh? Tough... So you're not making it to k9dr game Mike?
 

slisk250

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I would not even ask. Painful to say. However, I do get a consolation prize. Today I get to drive about 90 minutes to visit some old friend of my inlaws who has dementia. So a day with retirees I've never met probably forced to eat at a Golden Corral or Country Buffet. No cards, no Cubano sandwich, life sucks today. :)
 

k9dr

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I would not even ask. Painful to say. However, I do get a consolation prize. Today I get to drive about 90 minutes to visit some old friend of my inlaws who has dementia. So a day with retirees I've never met probably forced to eat at a Golden Corral or Country Buffet. No cards, no Cubano sandwich, life sucks today. :)

You could "get lost" and end up in Bradenton around 6:00 PM :cool:
 

detroitdad

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I would not even ask. Painful to say. However, I do get a consolation prize. Today I get to drive about 90 minutes to visit some old friend of my inlaws who has dementia. So a day with retirees I've never met probably forced to eat at a Golden Corral or Country Buffet. No cards, no Cubano sandwich, life sucks today. :)

Tough situation, but sometimes you have to look at the long game. Maybe this will pay off later when a game conflicts with a different, less important family function?
 

k9dr

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Damn. 90 minute drive. How late do you go? PM an address. Maybe I can pull a rabbit out of the hat

Not sure how late we will play - I will play till whenever. Certainly PM before you drive that far.
 

Trihonda

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As the FNG don't try to run everything.

Don't get me wrong, I try to subscribe to this (as I'd be annoyed if some new guy tried to tell me how to run MY game). However, the last time I played (6 mos ago), I came in all ready to hit the game room and socialize, but the host scooped me aside into his office, where he was working on some crazy complicated spreadsheet (meaningless), and started asking for advice on structure and payouts. I game him solid advice on modifications to his structure (cuz he asked), and he indicated he liked them and was going to implement them, but when push came to shove, he was either too drunk or didn't care enough to make any of the changes.

As to assisting with the tourney, I was a 5-handed table, and then some other guy at our table (with half a brain) exclaims that there's two tables with 9 and 7 players respectively. I went to the host and asked if he wanted to rebalance the tables, and he said he had no idea how, and asked if I would take care of it. So I helped out. Since I was seen by players as someone in charge (they were in desperate need of leadership, lol), they (including the host) starting asking me to settle some procedural questions during the game.

It was my first time at his house, but half the players recognize me as a solid (I think) host, and have played with me regularly. I was amongst friends. I didn't consider myself a completely new FNG, but still agree with you Courage.

Game plan is as stated... go, donate $35 for food/hosting and then make my way to the cash game :)

Just sad that with such an amazing game room, his game could be WAY better!
 

BPTDirector

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Erik - I wish I had a shitty game to play in around here. Poker is dead where I live and I contemplate daily about selling off my whole chip hoard.

Eat, Play, and be Happy!!

BPT
 

Zippity

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I think you hit on a solid point, Trihonda. It is difficult when what you (or even other players at the table) want versus what is being provided. The options though are definitely simple. I think the expectations fit within a certain range, especially now that he has "casually" refused. Either attend or don't attend. Attending and then getting frustrated is a bit like being a Jacksonville Jaguar's season ticket holder.

You get what you paid for unfortunately.
 
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Ronoh

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Erik - I wish I had a shitty game to play in around here. Poker is dead where I live
I hear this loud and clear... my "regular" home game has become the forum Meat-Ups. I've played more with Ben, k9dr, Jeff and ChaosRock in the past year+ than anyone else over a spread of five different states (none of which are mine). What I wouldn't give to have Erik's issues of attending a neighbors poorly run game in a great game room :)
 

slisk250

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Erik - I wish I had a shitty game to play in around here. Poker is dead where I live and I contemplate daily about selling off my whole chip hoard.

Eat, Play, and be Happy!!

BPT

Is there anything in my signature line you will be selling off?????? :) :)
 

sat guru

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(Previously posted in and now deleted from the other thread.)

Hopefully things will have improved!

If its same, same, there might be an opportunity for you to assist make this game more fun. I know you have previously approached him, but one option is going to him (after) tonights game when it will be fresh in his mind (and perhaps asking/prompting others to do the same): you might even have the opportunity to have the discussion below at tonights game. One approach is to say (apologies if I have stated the obvious below):

1. How much you appreciate him hosting and you're really grateful for the chance to play in his game

2. Ask him how he thought the tourney (or whatever you want to change) went/is going

3. If he says "great," ask him now he thought that (point out the problems, e.g. the table/cash payout situation) was and suggest that it must be stressful to him having do all of the work: prepare and organize for the tourney and the cash game, get the food, and to run the entire show. Commiserate because you've done it too and players don't realize how stressful, time consuming the process is and that it takes away the host's ability to focus on poker

4. If he says he doesn't mind then push the issue by giving examples of things that make tournaments hard to organize and are distractions from him actually being able to focus on playing poker (e.g. managing cash/getting room/chips ready). If he doesn't acknowledge or admit to any concerns or seem to care then suck it up and decide if you're going to do anything other than play cash.

5. If he agrees that he thought there were problems ask him what he thinks they were

6. Then ask him if he is open to ideas about how to make future tournaments more fun for, and easier on, him.

7. Tell him you had the same problems and stresses when you were first setting out to organize your game and that "someone" came to you to have a similar discussion that you are having now with him and that discussion was really insightful, helpful and a service to you. Consequently, because you're concerned that he's not having as much fun as he could, and this person was such a big help to you, that's why you are prompted to do the same for him. Ask him: "Are you sure that you're open to me talking about this?".

8. No matter what he says, continue on how that "person" suggested that you go to PCF/etc. board (tell him he's probably not interested b/c the board is "super geeky stuff" - invariably he will check it out), tell him there is a wealth of information available, how other players really helped you even though you sometimes aren't open to help, but by listening and getting advice the problems (reiterate the ones that he told you he has) were assuaged by all of the information and assistance that you got. Tell him that as a result of being open to that advice, you feel that you were able to solve (his same) problems and they went away without too much effort, it's much easier and fun for you now when you have poker nights.

9. Tell him that subsequent to you implementing changes that you learned about, that a lot of players come to you and say that your game is much better, has a really great tournament, it's run really well, how they really love playing in it, etc.

10. Tell him, "if he's still open to it" how you would like to share with him some of the things that have helped you, and perhaps even help him with the next tourney so that he can get a sense of just how much easier things would be on him, how much less stressed he'll be, how he'll be able to focus on poker rather than details, and that it's fun to learn about how to host a tourney

11. If you get this far he will at least say he's interested, then feed him a link or two from PCF/etc. board and some of your suggestions. A few weeks later, follow up with additional links because you're "thinking" about him. When he announces his next tourney immediately offer to help him prepare.

12. NOTE: If you're sending him to PCT/etc. then delete any posts about his games: it would be embarrassing for him (and you) to read your opinions after you've Jedi mind-tricked him into agreeing to accept your help, even if your altruistic (and self-centered) goal is to make his game more fun. Although your heart and concerns are in the right place as you are asking for assistance from this board to help him improve he will absolutely not interpret it that way. Murphy's law says that one of your posts will be third post he reads.

Not much more than that you can do after that. This may sound like a lot of effort but it probably won't take as much time as you're spent dissecting and ruminating on his game so far. Just don't forget to delete your posts regarding his game. If anything, start new threads about how great his game is.

The above will be interpreted by some readers as conniving. It may appear that way, but the obvious reality is that you clearly are concerned for him, want to help him and his players have a better time. Plus it's better for poker and you get to use your chips. Isn't that the point after all?

HTH
 

BPTDirector

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Or just let him run his game the way he wants. Nobody likes to be pushed into making their game something they don't want or necessarily care about.

Believe it or not, a bad game is wayyyyyy better than no invite because you said too much.

Just have fun, and say thank you before leaving.

And make no mistake about it, I am very anal about how my tournaments are structured and run.
 

Trihonda

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Or just let him run his game the way he wants. Nobody likes to be pushed into making their game something they don't want or necessarily care about.

Believe it or not, a bad game is wayyyyyy better than no invite because you said too much.

Just have fun, and say thank you before leaving.

And make no mistake about it, I am very anal about how my tournaments are structured and run.

I agree. I've already offered to assist. I offered to help with chips and such, structure, etc, and he said he "has it covered". I take that to mean he's still using dice chips. However, after last game, I did offer up some feedback (about the structure and Tournament Director software, etc.) at the time, he seemed receptive to snagging a copy of TD, but I doubt anything is going to change. But who knows... I might show up and he's got TD on a wall-mounted screen, nice Paulson chips, etc...? Ha!

I will show up and just try to be an appreciative guest. (as such, I'll always bring along a poker gift for the host, stay to help clean up, say thank you, etc...).

I won't bring up anything negative whatsoever, and will just have fun, since he's a great guy, and the venue is great, and the other players are cool too.

Now, that said, I might bring a set of cash chips along in the car (JUST in case...). :)
 
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