Tourney Who does T20K? (1 Viewer)

[MeridianFC]

I've watched the @Chris Manzoni video several times now and it's got me rethinking my set up. Started at T2000, went to T5000, and was going to restart my tournies with T10000 but his structure seems to have a lot going for it. Obviously you can structure many amounts many different ways but if folks are running this format are you doing 1 table or multiple? What do you find your average ending time is (if you are using his blind structure)?

Any thoughts from those of you in the T20K trenches what are the Pros/Cons?

 

[AH77]

I like T20k but with a T100 base simply for the fact that you can pretty much get away with coloring up once and being done with it as opposed to using a T25 base.

It also prevents annoying bets like $175.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I use a T20,000 setup for my Big Blind Ante tournaments.

I prefer a T25 base, but the T100 mimics more casino structures, so I try to cycle in the T20,000 (T100 base) at least once a year.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I do a T25 base 20k setup every Monday. It's my main setup.

 

[RichMahogany]

I like whatever combo of blind structure and starting stack that creates a non turbo 200-300 BB minimum starting stack.

 

[Welshman]

I’ve used his blind structure for almost every tournament I host. Some times I use T25 sometimes start with T100. If you have two full tables us the big blind ante to speed it up. Or shorten the levels to 15 minutes. I’ve also done 10k tournaments using it and started with 25/50 blinds. With an on time bonus you still have over 200 BB. I’ve also used it for a 100k tournament. You start with T500 and just times the blinds by 5.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I do a T25 base 20k setup every Monday.

Hmmm.... You know, that probably means something.

 

[grantc54]

I've watched the @Chris Manzoni video several times now and it's got me rethinking my set up. Started at T2000, went to T5000, and was going to restart my tournies with T10000 but his structure seems to have a lot going for it. Obviously you can structure many amounts many different ways but if folks are running this format are you doing 1 table or multiple? What do you find your average ending time is (if you are using his blind structure)?

Any thoughts from those of you in the T20K trenches what are the Pros/Cons?

Regardless of structure the game will usually end within a level of (total chips)/20 = BB. I have used this rule for many years and it never fails.

 

[Josh Kifer]

So, I stole the exact blind structure from Poker After Dark. Logic was, it was one of the few shows that did hand by hand games, five hour tourney. It's since adapted a hint to more players and rebuys, but I think it's about the most perfect structure you can have. It adapts well. Our game starts at 7pm, wraps around midnight, and never feels like it levels too fast.

 

[Poker Zombie]

So, I stole the exact blind structure from Poker After Dark. Logic was, it was one of the few shows that did hand by hand games, five hour tourney. It's since adapted a hint to more players and rebuys, but I think it's about the most perfect structure you can have. It adapts well. Our game starts at 7pm, wraps around midnight, and never feels like it levels too fast.

Post the structure please!

 

[Josh Kifer]

Post the structure please!

8/13/5/6/2

100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
1k/2k
1500/3k
2k/4k
2500/5k
Etc

We have removed the 1500/3k and 2500/5k to speed up with rebuys. And with 10 players with rebuys I moved stacks to 17k starting.

Oh, 20 minute blinds. We would move to 18 minute blinds on heavy rebuy nights. As much as it seems stupid. Cutting 2 min a blindset and 3k off a stack can bump it two blindsets and 2-3 chipstacks off the table. It makes a difference between 11:45pm and 1am.

 

[MeridianFC]

8/13/5/6/2

100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
600/1200
800/1600
1k/2k
1500/3k
2k/4k
2500/5k
Etc

We have removed the 1500/3k and 2500/5k to speed up with rebuys. And with 10 players with rebuys I moved stacks to 17k starting.

Oh, 20 minute blinds. We would move to 18 minute blinds on heavy rebuy nights. As much as it seems stupid. Cutting 2 min a blindset and 3k off a stack can bump it two blindsets and 2-3 chipstacks off the table. It makes a difference between 11:45pm and 1am.

Have you ever done this with ante (Chris' structure has big blind ante) rather than shorting time and stacks?

 

[Ainton]

I used to use Chris’s structure but my people were not ready for 20K starting with 25/50, almost no action from the start.

When to a 10K structure and it solved the action part, but now I’m willing to try Chris’s with BB Ante!

 

[JustinInMN]

It also prevents annoying bets like $175.

If that tilts you, poker is going to be tough on you .

To @MeridianFC , I love @Chris Manzoni 's videos even if I only agree with him a paltry 90% of the time , his channel is must watch for new hosts. That said I use the base-T500 structure and love it. But my feedback in my group was 150BB plays "too deep" let alone a 200BB start. So I start 100BB now on most tournaments. I don't complicate my tournaments with antes.

base-T100 is becoming the norm because of the BBA and the wider acceptance of "lopsided" levels at the start of the tournament. (Most base T100 tournaments start with 100-100, 100-200, and 100-300 with the first and 3rd levels having small blinds different than 50% of the big blind.)

 

[allforcharity]

Lots of people like to play deep with 400BB and a T25 base T20K set up.

 

[Defarse]

I'm on my third structure........started with 2000 T5 base, then went to 5000 T25 base, and now have gone to the 20000 T100 base to mimic most casinos and card rooms. I really like T100 base the best for our single table........easy increments for bets and color up one time.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Have you ever done this with ante (Chris' structure has big blind ante) rather than shorting time and stacks?

It took me 22 years to get them to totally know BigO. BB Antes will just annoy the group. They are so used to the setup there isn't really any reason to change it. It would work fine, but alas, we end every week right at the correct time, so if it's not broke.....

 

[BGinGA]

I went to T25-base 20k starting stacks with antes for our league play many years ago. Two tables of eight with a single re-buy option, 50/100 opening blinds for 200bb. Finishes in under 5 hours.

We are experimenting a bit this year, adding two other tourney structures into the mix: T100-base 30k stacks with a bba (no rebuys, same blinds as the 20k above but starting at 100/100, 300bb), and T25-base 25k stacks with re-buy but no antes, using a more aggressive blind structure (50/100, 250bb).

The current league season consists of 9 events, 3 of each type (20k w/antes, 25k no-antes, 30k w/bba).

I haven't organized a 10k event in years, and have no plans for ever going back.

 

[JustinInMN]

adding two other tourney structures into the mix: T100-base 30k stacks with a bba

I am nothing short of shocked to read this development.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I am nothing short of shocked to read this development.

I too opposed the BBA. I still think it's stupid, though I use it at roughly twice a year now (out of 9 events). This summer's TDA conference still cannot come to a consensus as to Ante first or Blind first when a player is too short to post both.

But if that's the casino standard, it does players a disservice to never encounter it in a friendly home-game atmosphere first.

 

[BGinGA]

I am nothing short of shocked to read this development.

Feel relieved when I assure you that it's actually a table ante, not a true BBA. It also is an improved-rules version (imo), and not the potential clusterfuck you see in most casino tournaments that utilize table antes (BBA or Button antes).

Table Ante Rules:
1. Table ante is equal to the current big blind amount (6-9 players), or equal to the current small blind amount (3-5 players)
2. Table ante is posted by the small blind player (if dead SB position, no ante is posted for that hand)
3. The small blind amount is posted first, then the table ante (or largest portion thereof available)
4. Table ante is not used during heads-up play

These rules ensure that any player who wins a hand will always be +EV, and never simply break even -- regardless of player position or stack size.

It also more closely mimics the play of individual antes regarding the posted ante size, as well as placing the ante responsibility on the player with the worst possible table position.

 

[Saoliver]

I do a T25 base 20k setup every Monday. It's my main setup.

It's a T20k build, but I move from 20k (6 handed) to 19k (7-8 handed) to 17k (10 handed) to assist with the game always ending around 1130pm for work tomorrow.

 

[JustinInMN]

Feel relieved when I assure you that it's actually a table ante, not a true BBA. It also is an improved-rules version (imo), and not the potential clusterfuck you see in most casino tournaments that utilize table antes (BBA or Button antes).

Table Ante Rules:
1. Table ante is equal to the current big blind amount (6-9 players), or equal to the current small blind amount (3-5 players)
2. Table ante is posted by the small blind player (if dead SB position, no ante is posted for that hand)
3. The small blind amount is posted first, then the table ante (or largest portion thereof available)
4. Table ante is not used during heads-up play

These rules ensure that any player who wins a hand will always be +EV, and never simply break even -- regardless of player position or stack size.

It also more closely mimics the play of individual antes regarding the posted ante size, as well as placing the ante responsibility on the player with the worst possible table position.

Well I won't derail this thread with a debate, but I am glad you have found a set of rules that are to you and your players' liking.

 

[tabletalker7]

I use T20k with blinds starting at 25/50 when I want the tournament to last. I mainly use it for a 4 table charity tournament. It is kind of expensive for an entry fee with half for the charity and half for the prize pool. I do this intentionally so that while most people do leave while winning nothing, they are least feel like they got their money's worth out of it.

 

[BGinGA]

Well I won't derail this thread with a debate, but I am glad you have found a set of rules that are to you and your players' liking.

9 out of 10 poker-playing dentists prefer the no-ante tournaments.

 

[MeridianFC]

I haven't organized a 10k event in years, and have no plans for ever going back.

Just curious as to why.

Oddly I was drafted to help with a charity thing at the end of the year and was thinking of using doing a 10K with T25 base. 3 tables of 10, overwhelmingly newbies, and it's in a work/school environment. I was pressed into service for this last year, they made me play (came in second so it's their fault) but the set up was a hot mess (4 different chips sets, absent players were blinded off the whole night, the blind structure was hot garbage, etc.). I want to bring some order to the chaos but T100 nor T20K seem appropriate for this type of adventure.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Feel relieved when I assure you that it's actually a table ante, not a true BBA.

What does "table ante" mean here, and what distinguishes it from other types of antes?

 

[JustinInMN]

What does "table ante" mean here, and what distinguishes it from other types of antes?

Table ante means one player antes each hand for all players at the table. The most common examples being a big-blind ante or a button ante (or apparently now thanks to @BGinGA , small blind ante.)

This term is to distinguish from the traditional "individual ante" where each player puts in their own ante for the hand.

Use of a table ante is seen as a time saver and big blind ante has become the norm in casino tournaments that use antes for the past few years.

 

[BGinGA]

^^ And it typically results in fewer chip denominations in play at any given time.

 

[BGinGA]

Just curious as to why.

Not saying that 10k tournaments don't have a valid use -- especially with small-stack and/or turbo events -- but with my specific chip sets and player group, they really serve no purpose any longer.