When to not Burn & other Dealing Questions (1 Viewer)

[Coyote]

I thought about opening this thread to discuss dealing questions as they come up in real life - rule books suffering from the TLDR phenomenon.

So, my first question is:
If all players in the pot are all-in (no more betting to come) pre-flop or on the flop, do you still have to burn one card between flop/turn and turn/river, or between turn/river (ie after burning the first one anyway)?
Does something change when running it twice or three times? Do you burn between the two or three parallel boards or turn/rivers?
If the rationale of burning is to put the top card of a now uncut deck out of play, I guess you don't burn at all in these situations, other than the first card to come.
Feedback appreciated.

 

[inca911]

You still burn to preserve the order of the cards. This includes burning cards when you run it X, resolving the first board to completion and then running the second to completion. For example:

Burn ... Turn #1 ... Burn ... River #1
Burn ... Turn #2 ... Burn ... River #2

 

[DoubleEagle]

Remember, burning came into the game way back in the day to help control cheating.

 

[Gobbs]

Invest in this book. Best thing I ever did.
The Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook

 

[v1pe]

I believe that the rationale of the burn is to protect the card coming into play from being "scouted" in case it happens to be marked.

In my opinion, that's all that REALLY matters. I don't think it's necessary to burn each flop/turn/river if there are multiple of each (double board games or running it twice). The cards are shuffled and randomized, so the order in which they come off the deck shouldn't matter...

With that logic you shouldn't need to burn anything after everyone is all in, but I still would out of habit/tradition. When I'm dealing I burn a single card for each street.

Interestingly I guess there's no similar marked card protection for games like stud with no burns.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Interestingly I guess there's no similar marked card protection for games like stud with no burns.

Stud when dealt properly uses a burn before each street. Thats why it is seldom dealt more than seven handed or you wont have enough cards.

 

[v1pe]

Stud when dealt properly uses a burn before each street. Thats why it is seldom dealt more than seven handed or you wont have enough cards.

Oh that's good to know!

 

[JustinInMN]

I believe that the rationale of the burn is to protect the card coming into play from being "scouted" in case it happens to be marked

100% correct. Burning is only necessary at the end of each round. There is no reason to burn in between parallel boards. It disincentives marking if you can only read cards to come out of play versus cards coming into play.

Burning, even in all in situations is for consistency, does not allow the betting action to influence the dealing order.

Stud when dealt properly uses a burn before each street. Thats why it is seldom dealt more than seven handed or you wont have enough cards.

There is a provision for a community river in seven card stud which allows stud to be dealt 8 handed without ever running out of cards. However, this provision is not sufficient 9 handed, if you have a 9 handed stud game, you would rotate one "sit out" position.

Interestingly I guess there's no similar marked card protection for games like stud with no burns.

You should 100% be burning cards in stud after each betting round.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I used to play in a low limit dealers choice home game nine-handed. They would deal stud, no burns, and inevitably run out of of cards. They then scooped up all the discards, shuffled them and dealt seventh street. Horrible, but it was their game. Been doing it for years on end that way.

 

[k9dr]

I have run in to burn issues occasionally in 5 card Double Board Omaha playing 8 handed. 40 cards dealt on the initial deal - burn 1 card then deal two 3 card flops - this leaves 5 remaining cards. I usually burn the next card then deal 2 turn cards leaving no burn for the remaining 2 river cards.

Some people prefer no burn on the turn preserving the burn card to protect the river cards. I don't have a strong opinion either way - I just prefer consistency. Does anyone have a particular reason to use one way over the other ??

 

[inca911]

I used to preserve the final river burn card by not burning the turn; now I just burn until I can’t. With this method, you are burning more frequently than not, as the hand may end prior to the river. Just my $0.02, and it’s easy to remember.

 

[k9dr]

That was my choice too - burn until you can't

 

[BGinGA]

I used to preserve the final river burn card by not burning the turn; now I just burn until I can’t. With this method, you are burning more frequently than not, as the hand may end prior to the river. Just my $0.02, and it’s easy to remember.

And real sticklers can always grab a card from the muck after dealing the turn, adding it to the top of the stub and making it the river burn card (just to cover/conceal the first river card back from view).

 

[JustinInMN]

And real sticklers can always grab a card from the muck after dealing the turn, adding it to the top of the stub and making it the river burn card (just to cover/conceal the first river card back from view).

What muck? It's double board Omaha. Nobody mucks.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

I have run in to burn issues occasionally in 5 card Double Board Omaha playing 8 handed. 40 cards dealt on the initial deal - burn 1 card then deal two 3 card flops - this leaves 5 remaining cards. I usually burn the next card then deal 2 turn cards leaving no burn for the remaining 2 river cards.

Some people prefer no burn on the turn preserving the burn card to protect the river cards. I don't have a strong opinion either way - I just prefer consistency. Does anyone have a particular reason to use one way over the other ??

I prefer to not ever use all the cards in the deck. What if the river card gets exposed prematurely? What if another card gets exposed during the initial deal? In the 5 card double board Omaha game 8-handed, I would prefer to not burn BOTH turn and river....or just not burn at all.